does Joss have a thing about knives?

POSTED BY: NewOldBrownCoat
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 16:26
VIEWED: 4492
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AG05

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:51 AM

Getting FOD'ed! LOL!!

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AG05:
Getting FOD'ed! LOL!!

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

Somebody round 'ere has aircraft experience.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 5:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I'm feeling squeamish hearing Joss is anti-gun.
In Pilot there was a bunch with Patience. Then of course pluggin a Fed-in-the-Head.
So adamant about establishing Mal as a killer, when the 2nd pilot comes out (TTJ), Joss has Crow getting FODded. Also plenty of gunplay in the train, messing up the plan.
Safe has Book getting hit.

Seems Joss is welcome to useify all weapons, futuristic or not (where be the futurey knives?)

I took the guns in Firefly as more of an homage to its western themes. Still, the gunplay in the show often doesn't end as intended, and often ends badly.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

You seem to be disparaging Joss' use of gunplay. Mal, Zoe, and Jayne came out of Whitefall due to superior shooting and planning - and they figured it would come out that way, thus the planning.
And a key showdown in BDM included Mal's quickdraw contest with the Operative in the generator area. Plus Mal's popping the purplebelly pilot who killed Book on Haven.
I just don't see Joss shying away from guns in Firefly. Buffy and Angel are different shows. Buffy needs to have a leaning away from guns, largely due to the specific weapons and materials needed to terminate vamps.

KWICKO

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 11:47 AM

I'm not "disparaging" anything. I'm stating my opinions, which apparently don't agree with yours. That's fine, it's all good. I've always gotten an anti-gun vibe from Joss and his work, and that's his right. I myself am a gun enthusiast, which is MY right.

That "showdown" in the BDM - the gunplay and quickdraw showiness was worth just about nothing when all was said and done; Mal still had to take care of business with his bare hands, not his gun. At the very least, Joss seems to enjoy pointing out that guns are certainly not a cure-all.

As for Buffy, vamps were only ONE of the kinds of demons and villains she had to deal with. Surely a gun could have been quite effective in a great number of other encounters. For instance, when Warren uses a gun with horrible unforeseen consequences, why doesn't Buffy use a gun when she goes after him? Certainly it would have been quite an effective weapon against The Trio (Warren, Andrew, and Jonathan), since they were mere mortals...

I don't "disparage" anyone their guns, or any writer or director their use of gunplay. I *DO* think it can take more imagination to write a scene WITHOUT gunplay, though.

But as stated above, that's just my opinion...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

AG05

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:01 PM

@JSF:

I worked as a ramp monkey at a regional airport in Texas for a year or so. Fun times.

@JSF, Kwicko.

I think Joss's use of guns in Firefly was not overly dones, but I don't think he shied away from them. Remember that while Mal the Operative were duking it out in the generator, the rest of the crew were holding the line against hordes of Reavers. From an entertainment standpoint, I can see why the fistfight makes for a better climactic tool than a gunfight. You can drag a fistfight out for hours with just 2 people. A shootout of similar length requires more henchmen and redshirts to be expended as cannon fodder (lest it look like our heroes can't shoot).

From an "in the 'verse" standpoint, One must realize that on a frontier (especially a recently demilitarized, lawless and wide-ranging frontier inhabited by Reavers) a gun is a necessary tool. They are not magical talismans by any stretch of the imagination, but most folks in the Rim view them like a pocketknife. Nothing too special (Jayne notwithstanding), but a handy thing to have.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

CYBERSNARK

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:08 PM

Guns can go wrong really easily (Warren's killing of Tara being the prime example. Book getting shot being another). Too easy to hit something you're not aiming at --if you have friends involved in the fight, this becomes an even bigger issue ("friendly fire" isn't). In an enclosed starship (where things can ricochet and do potentially ship-killing damage --Jayne notes that Vera could punch right through the hull), guns are a serious no-no.

Only practical non-knife alternative is to use energy weapons, and we've seen that that technology isn't available to Mal & crew.

Also, guns don't usually work on magic-based entities unless you're using specialized ammo (salt rounds for spirits [which only works at really close range anyway], pure/meteoric iron for faerie/gods --and despite what you may've heard, silver is way too soft to make useful bullets).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

AG05

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

Also, guns don't usually work on magic-based entities unless you're using specialized ammo (salt rounds for spirits [which only works at really close range anyway]

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

I'm pretty sure a 12-gauge loaded with rock salt works well on non-magical entities as well.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

KWICKO

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

...despite what you may've heard, silver is way too soft to make useful bullets.

I take it you've never used soft lead hollowpoints? My dad used to load his own, and would make his own soft lead (unjacketed) hollowpoints for his .44 magnum. Tried 'em on gallon milk jugs filled with Jello, and those jugs just came apart when slammed with one of these loads.

And worst case, you could always do a metal-jacketed silver slug if you really needed that silver bullet.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

AG05

Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:26 PM

Hell, 'till the late 19th century ALL ammo (or at least the vast majority) was soft lead. It can't stand up to the forces of modern full power rifle loads, but for pistols and SMG's (even some older battle rifles) cast lead works just fine.

Mercy is the mark of a great man.
Guess I'm just a good man.
Well, I'm alright.

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