Sadly, RWED has become nothing more than Troll Country 2

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Sunday, June 7, 2009 21:57
VIEWED: 24239
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AURAPTOR

Friday, May 29, 2009 1:38 AM

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:05 AM

AURAPTOR

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:32 AM

Thanks for making my case for me.

G'day.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:52 AM

VICTORY!!!!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:02 AM

Ding Dong the troll is dead !!!!!!

so long Assaf

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:04 AM

And there was much rejoicing.
*Terry Gillium animated waving of flags*

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters.

Translation:

"And then when things aren't going my way, I'd resort to temper tantrums and name-calling."

Quote:
But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

Translation:

"But every time I try to mock, insult, or elicit a response, I am constantly outdone, so rather than deal in sincere exchanges of ideas, I prefer to call those who disagree with me 'trolls'."

Quote:
As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same.

In other words:

"While I think it would be wise to leave, I am not wise, so I'm still here proving my lack of wisdom. So I won't leave, but I'll THREATEN to leave, so you better play nice and go by my rules, or I'll take my ball and go home."

Quote:
The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

Yes, your repetitive claims that Barney Frank and Chris Dodd were the most powerful men in the world, and that Dick Cheney was the most honest, are surely a colossal display of ignorance. But that does not seem to matter to you.

Quote:
You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

Sour grapes much?

How much you wanna bet he doesn't have the guts to actually leave?

Any takers?

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, May 29, 2009 11:14 AM

Auraptor is 100% correct.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 29, 2009 11:58 AM

I don't know Rap... minus Signy and Rue, it seems to be exactly the same to me as it was when I first got here.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Auraptor is 100% correct, and that's why I'm hardly here anymore.

I thought it was because your guy got his ass handed to him in the last election and you were horribly depressed about it, but what do I know?

Quote:
In his case, as the most outspoken and visible Conservative here, he is constantly under attack by people who only want to fuck with him for sport.

1) He's no "conservative". He's nothing more than a neo-con Republican party hack of the worst kind, and his ethics go no deeper than "Republican good, Democrat bad". That's as far as he's willing to discuss things. He's the board's equivalent of those stupid "God said it. I believe it. That settles it." bumper stickers only in Rap's case, it's "Bush said it. I believe it. That settles it." He'll allow no room for disagreement; he'll allow no room for mistakes.

2) He's "under attack" because he's constantly ON THE ATTACK. He's not willing to discuss anything, nor have a debate; he's here to shout his point of view, shout down anyone else's point of view, and then loudly proclaim himself the winner and run away, no matter how often or how thoroughly he's proven wrong.

Quote:
They call him every name in the book, ignore his factual positions and quotes in the most vile, immature, and obtuse manner, but YET THEY STILL ENGAGE HIM EVERY FUCKING HOUR OF EVERY FUCKING DAY!

I guarantee you I've been called far worse by Rap than I've ever called him in return. And as I've noted many times on this board, I tend to respond in kind. Start in with the name-calling, and I'm going to jump down in the mud with you. I've pointed things out to Rap, I've refuted his "facts" (which are so unrelated to anything factual, they've actually been named "RapFacts™" in honor of their lack of any connection to anything having remotely to do with reality), and I've asked him legitimate questions, which he's either refused to answer altogether, or he's gone into all-caps shouting mode with such gems as "SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING DICK HEAD!!!"

And yet Rappy still continues to come in and snipe and troll, having to respond to every fucking post every fucking day. Odd that you don't mind him doing it, but want to take others to task for engaging him...

Quote:
So what the fuck is wrong with you idiots? Huh Chris? Huh Kwikstein? Got nothing better in you pathetic lives than to hurl insults at someone you have no respect for? And then you proceed to give yourselves high fives as if you've fucking accomplished something?? Calling your mean-spirited and snarky-ass shit Troll Country material is an insult to the fine tradition of Trolls. You are lower than Trolls, and beneath contempt.

What's wrong with me? What, there must be something wrong with me because I'm not willing to stand by and let someone constantly spout their lies and partisan bullshit without calling them on it and pointing out that it's wrong?

I reiterate: I tend to respond in kind. Rap has been nothing but a troll here for the past several months, offering nothing at all. When he's treated the way he treats others, he goes apoplectic about it and throws a tantrum. If he was interested in having an honest debate, he'd actually partake in one. Believe it or not, there ARE honest debates going on here. If you want proof, look at my interactions with RIPWash and BadKarma, and my recent discussions with you. Those are debates - we each make our points, each make our rebuttals, there's some give and take on each side, and we generally find ourselves in some form of agreement before too long. Now look at Rap's interactions with... well, anybody. He makes a blanket assertion, someone disagrees and asks him to clarify, and his response is invariably along the lines of, "Fuck you. You're an (or "a") idiot! Discussion over. I win."

That's not a debate, it's a shouting match. And if that's the game Rappy wants to play, I'm happy to oblige and beat him at his own game. And obviously I have, since he's now stomped off h

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, May 29, 2009 12:12 PM

Yer full of shit Kwik. You are the absolute worst partisan punk here.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 29, 2009 12:36 PM

I think he's a bit partisan, but to say he's the most partisan would be a far stretch, I think.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
In his case, as the most outspoken and visible Conservative here, he is constantly under attack by people who only want to fuck with him for sport.

Actually I AM the most outspoken and visible Conservative here. RAP is an ally and one of the few voices of the right joining me in arguing from the Right against those of you who argue from the Wrong.

Should he leave? Should Rue and Signy leave? I have always been clear on this point. Everyone, with the exception of PirateNews, is welcome in the arena of ideas. They are also welcome to leave.

Free speech is also the right to walk away.

As Americans I hope that when the quiet comes and our dialogue ends, we can respect each other enough to part as friends (or at least with the mutual respect we all deserve as men and women).

Quote:

his ethics go no deeper than "Republican good, Democrat bad". That's as far as he's willing to discuss things....

I disagree. I've seen this attitude from both sides. I noted in a recent discussion that while I was making points and using citations (at the other sides request) they responded with "LIAR" and "IDIOT". Hardly the stuff of intellectual counterpoint.

Quote:

I guarantee you I've been called far worse by Rap than I've ever called him in return.

That may be true. I note for the record that you and/or others have said many bad things about me and, with the exception of when I'm poking fun at you in a friendly way...I do not respond in kind.

Quote:

And as I've noted many times on this board, I tend to respond in kind. Start in with the name-calling, and I'm going to jump down in the mud with you.

If your both in the mud...then neither of you are making any point other then being covered in mud.

Quote:

What's wrong with me? What, there must be something wrong with me because I'm not willing to stand by and let someone constantly spout their lies and partisan bullshit without calling them on it and pointing out that it's wrong?

We can do that without the rest. There are at least two sides to every issue. If you Lefties see things one way and us Righties see things differently...it is not about "lies and partisan bullshit".

It called a dialogue, an exchange of views, sometimes its an agreement to disagree, or an opportunity for learning, persuasion, or compromise.

Quote:

By the way, I note for the record that you didn't seem to have much to say when Rue and Signy recently signed out. In fact, you had NOTHING to say.

Neither did I. They can leave or stay. Sure, I could say they are running away because they are unable to articulate an argument...but thats just poking them a little, cause their record shows that its not true. They and RAP are perfectly able to articulate their ideas and ideals. I wish them well and expect their periodic return.

Seems to me a troll has two definitions here. One, like PN, is a person who posts nothing worthwhile. The other, like RAP and myself I suppose, is a person who posts things you don't agree with and thus have no right to an opinion.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I think he's a bit partisan, but to say he's the most partisan would be a far stretch, I think.

That would be a good topic.

What makes a person more partisan? Is it the person who makes the ugly attacks or is it the person that makes the intellectual argument?

Edited to add: I consider myself the most partisan here because I respect my position enough to argue it against all comers. Bring on the discussion, I believe I can persuade you, not because I'm a damn good lawyer who could make any case to any jury (which is close to being true), but because the cause is just and my position correct and that is a fight that loses only when it isn't fought.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, May 29, 2009 1:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I think he's a bit partisan, but to say he's the most partisan would be a far stretch, I think.

That would be a good topic.

What makes a person more partisan? Is it the person who makes the ugly attacks or is it the person that makes the intellectual argument?

Edited to add: I consider myself the most partisan here because I respect my position enough to argue it against all comers. Bring on the discussion, I believe I can persuade you, not because I'm a damn good lawyer who could make any case to any jury (which is close to being true), but because the cause is just and my position correct and that is a fight that loses only when it isn't fought.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

Sorry Hero, but that's a lot of horseshit. 90% of the time you are the invisible man when Auraptor and anyone on his side is gang-attacked by the Left. There is a masochistic element to Conservatives here. Stand alone and take the heat, with no support ever from those who agree with you....why?... 'cause most of the time it's just not worth the effort to get involved in the ridiculous shenanigans here, and many of us don't desire the inevitable cascade of insults and snark which will be forthcoming in spades from immature jerks & obtuse twits. It's like some of you relish the hatred, feed off of it. I do not. It sickens me. Good day sir.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 29, 2009 1:02 PM

I see your point, but that is the most subtly arrogant speech I've ever heard.

What makes you think that you have the market cornered on the right ideas and the moral high ground Hero?

Just because you say it all Gentlemanly and Lawyerley like, doesn't mean that it holds any more truth than somebody else's opinion in here.

Good for you for holding true to your position. Bad show telling everyone that you're absolutely right and you're going to save everyone else from their wrong opinions and ideas using your supernatural Jedi Mind Tricks you learned before you passed the bar.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

KPO

Friday, May 29, 2009 1:50 PM

Quote:
Edited to add: I consider myself the most partisan here because I respect my position enough to argue it against all comers. Bring on the discussion, I believe I can persuade you, not because I'm a damn good lawyer who could make any case to any jury (which is close to being true), but because the cause is just and my position correct and that is a fight that loses only when it isn't fought.

Fair enough i say, so long as you can learn and acknowledge where you might be wrong: lawyers often have to argue even when they are wrong, out of obligation - and so do partisans.
Heads should roll

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I see your point, but that is the most subtly arrogant speech I've ever heard.

Thanks. There's actually a class that teaches that in LawSchool.

Quote:

What makes you think that you have the market cornered on the right ideas and the moral high ground Hero?

It would not be much of an opinion if I didn't think it was right.

"Well, I believe what I say is right and good and true...but...not really cause you could be right I guess."

Yeah, that's effective debate. No, I'll argue my side, you argue your side, and I'll win cause I'm right. Sure its possible I'll lose and your right, but right now I believe in my side just like you believe in your side. That gives me the right ideas.

I'll share the moral high ground with an honost liberal who can make their case. It'll be an honor, even if you convince me I'm wrong. Heck, thats not even losing. If I convince you, we both win, if you convince me, we both win. If we fail to convice each other but both articulate our arguments in a respectful and intellectual fashion...we both win. Only way either of us loses is by refusing to play or playing dirty, since neither allows our arguments to be heard or points to be made.

Quote:

Just because you say it all Gentlemanly and Lawyerley like, doesn't mean that it holds any more truth than somebody else's opinion in here.

Actually it does. If I make a reasonable argument using facts and commentary and the response is "IDIOT" or "LIAR" with no argument, fact, or underlying point, then I have made a more truthful argument.

I suppose you would respectfully consider as an intellectual equal a child who holds their ears and hums really loud. Thats not even good good parenting, much less good debate.

Quote:

Bad show telling everyone that you're absolutely right and you're going to save everyone else from their wrong opinions and ideas using your supernatural Jedi Mind Tricks you learned before you passed the bar.

Fine point and good discussion, which was my point, my argument, and my intention. So I win...on this issue.

Should have called me a name...and Jedi Mind Tricks only work on the weak minded. Used it once...waved my hand and said "you don't want a trial"...guy pled guilty to a Stop sign violation.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I think he's a bit partisan, but to say he's the most partisan would be a far stretch, I think.

That would be a good topic.

What makes a person more partisan? Is it the person who makes the ugly attacks or is it the person that makes the intellectual argument?

Or is it the person who says whatever the political ideologues within his own party TELL him to say? Can they stray from the talking points? Can they EVER say "Good point" or "Good job" when the "other side" does something they might actually agree with? Is it the person who simply MUST take the opposing viewpoint, regardless the issue, only because they have a personal dislike of the person arguing the viewpoint?

"Partisan" doesn't necessarily mean good, you know. It's like you're arguing that you're the most biased person here. When is that a strong suit, and when is it a liability? That you BELIEVE in your cause doesn't make it right. There's every chance Charlie Manson BELIEVED in what he was doing. Hell, there's every chance that Dubya BELIEVED he was doing the right thing in staging an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Quote:

Edited to add: I consider myself the most partisan here because I respect my position enough to argue it against all comers. Bring on the discussion...

I have.

Quote:
...I believe I can persuade you...

You haven't.

Quote:
...not because I'm a damn good lawyer...

From what I've seen, you aren't.

Quote:
...but because the cause is just and my position correct and that is a fight that loses only when it isn't fought.

Now THAT is funny!

I'm not trying to run Rappy off the site. As Chris has pointed out more than once, on other areas of the forum, Rap is quite capable of actually having a pleasant conversation. But in here, he's utterly blinded by his partisanship; not only can he not see things from the other side, he's utterly unwilling to admit that the other side even has a right to exist!

Maybe it's time he walked away from RWED for a while. Don't worry; there'll be another round of elections next year. I'm sure Rappy will be here to tell us all how wrong we are then...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Yer full of shit Kwik. You are the absolute worst partisan punk here. You just couldn't wait to dissect my post, despite the fact that I deleted 95% of it within a few minutes. Fucking hopeless and pathetic you is.

Yes, I point out that you and I have had a few fruitful discussions recently, so you feel the need to drag out the name-calling and insults. Are you trying to pay homage to your hero, Rappy the Wonder Dog? If so, you're doing a damned good job of it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
lawyers often have to argue even when they are wrong, out of obligation - and so do partisans.

I never do that. I always believe in the side I'm arguing, but then I've never been a Defense Attorney.

I suspect I'd have a hard time with it. But I'd have to make the intellectual leap that I'm arguing the clients interests, which are the same regardless of the facts.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:20 PM

Quote:
Hero wrote:

Only way either of us loses is by refusing to play or playing dirty, since neither allows our arguments to be heard or points to be made.

So you're saying that by quitting and running away, Rappy just lost, right? I mean, that IS how that reads, you know...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:23 PM

Heh... funny how you wrote that as if I was a liberal and others here think i'm a Raving Rethug.

I know what a Jew feels like now....

Waveringinthewindwithoutahomeisall

~6SJ

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

JONGSSTRAW

Friday, May 29, 2009 2:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Yes, I point out that you and I have had a few fruitful discussions recently, so you feel the need to drag out the name-calling and insults.

Yes we had a few good discussions recently as you say, but ONLY because we found ourselves in agreement on ONE issue....torture. But although I don't post much, I do lurk frequently, and I am simply amazed and aghast at your endless energy in attacking and insulting everyone who is not a Liberal Democrat. You sink to new lows every day, because you do not post with any intelligence, although I have seen examples proving you are intelligent. Instead you post with blind hatred and snarkiness. You excuse every Obama concern with Bush analogies. You minimalize and distort every post you don't like. You argued against the same damn thing whenever Auraptor or someone used Clinton as an example during the Bush years, saying get over it, or mockingly saying Well Clinton did it, but NOW yer doing the same, and yer fine with it 'cause it suits your dishonest agenda here. I do apologize for the name-calling before.

SERGEANTX

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
... I'm a damn good lawyer who could make any case to any jury (which is close to being true)

Then you must really be holding back in your online discussions.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Yes, I point out that you and I have had a few fruitful discussions recently, so you feel the need to drag out the name-calling and insults.

Yes we had a few good discussions recently as you say, but ONLY because we found ourselves in agreement on ONE issue....torture.

Hmmm... Just the one, eh? I thought we were in agreement on Obama's trying to codify "preventive detention" into law as well. Guess I was mistaken on that one. I didn't realize you were in agreement with him; I myself am quite opposed to the policy.

Quote:
But although I don't post much, I do lurk frequently, and I am simply amazed and aghast at your endless energy in attacking and insulting everyone who is not a Liberal Democrat.

Have I been that energetic in attacking RIPWash or BadKarma? Last time I checked, I'm pretty sure they both identify as Conservatives. Maybe you mean SereantX or BlueSunCompanyMan, or even Fremdfirma, all of whom I *DO* have some disagreements with, but rarely if ever "attack" - and there's not a single one of them that you could POSSIBLY label a Liberal Democrat.

Now, I'm pretty sure Rue and Signy both ARE liberal Democrats, and I've had disagreements with them in the past, particularly over guns and gun rights. We've talked, we've argued, we've debated... and we've both made and conceded points.

Quote:
You sink to new lows every day, because you do not post with any intelligence, although I have seen examples proving you are intelligent. Instead you post with blind hatred and snarkiness.

I'd like to think my hatred isn't blind, but rather intensely focused. But that's just me. As for snarkiness, if you've been paying attention a all, you'd know by now that just about 99% of the stuff I post is neither all joke NOR all serious. There's usually a mix; you decide what I'm being serious about and what I'm joking about, and it will tell me more about you than it will you about me. Call it a thought exercise, in many, many parts.

Quote:
You excuse every Obama concern with Bush analogies.

Do I? Seems I've been quite outspoken about at least a few issues where Obama and I are in stark disagreement. Perhaps you missed those threads.

Quote:
You minimalize and distort every post you don't like.

And that makes me different from anyone else here in RWED, HOW, exactly?

Quote:
You argued against the same damn thing whenever Auraptor or someone used Clinton as an example during the Bush years, saying get over it, or mockingly saying Well Clinton did it, but NOW yer doing the same, and yer fine with it 'cause it suits your dishonest agenda here.

In other words, I'm playing by the rules the "conservatives" here laid down, and now I'm not playing fair? Is that your point? If I point out an analogy, it's to illustrate the hypocrisy of the Right - the things they have the biggest problems with when Obama does them, they called me "Un-American" for objecting to when Bush did them. I find that odd. It seems to me that, ON BOTH SIDES, there is a willful blindness when it comes to YOUR party doing something that would be wrong if THE OTHER PARTY were doing it.

I've pointed this hypocrisy out several times, and I've freely admitted that it affects me as well. I recognize it, which means I have a chance to try to work or think around it. Others DON'T recognize, or refuse to admit it, which keeps them blind. I might be a bit myopic, but I'm at least TRYING to improve my view by listening and learning. I haven't shut myself off from the world, but rather embraced it.

Quote:
I do apologize for the name-calling before.

As do I. And I appreciate it.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
... I'm a damn good lawyer who could make any case to any jury (which is close to being true)

Then you must really be holding back in your online discussions.

SergeantX

"It's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah"

Oh, BURNNNNN!!!!

SIGNYM

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:21 PM

HERO

Quote:
I disagree. I've seen this attitude from both sides. I noted in a recent discussion that while I was making points and using citations (at the other sides request) they responded with "LIAR" and "IDIOT". Hardly the stuff of intellectual counterpoint

(a) I never called you a liar. I said you were making shit up. Liars say things they KNOW aren't true. But people sometimes make shit up out of an excess of wishful thinking. There'a difference.

(b) I never called you an idiot.

(c) I took your arguments at face value and posted links to factual websites, and asked specific questions. Which, BTW, you never followed up on.

You must think we have no memory, or think we can't look up olds posts. But we're not as manipulable as the juries that you so clearly hold in contempt. And now really ARE a liar, so you can go stand in the corner with rappy. G'day.

RAPPY: A discussion involves the novel idea of talking, LISTENING, AND COMPREHENDING. Building on previous collaberative ideas to create new ones. I don't know if you've ever had a real conversation here, because your intent is clearly just to pass on Rush's latest POV.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:26 PM

The "Liar" comment came from Chris, for the record. It was a single word post.

SIGNYM

Friday, May 29, 2009 3:32 PM

Hero was pretty global. He also conveniently slid past the fact that he refused to engage in substantive discussion when it was offered to him.

As, BTW, does rappy. I could point to thread after thread where rappy, when confronted with irrefutable facts (REAL facts, not RapFacts), slides out. Rappy doesn't want real discussion even tho he claims he does.

That's one of the reasons why I don't come here as much as I used to. I WAS hoping for real discussion... where people would be able to lay their beliefs on a dissecting table, and I could lay mine, as we would cut down to the bone. But what I usually ran into sooner or later (mostly sooner) were peeps unwilling to engage in any sort of rational contemplation of either my opinions or their own. What I ran into was religion.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
The "Liar" comment came from Chris, for the record. It was a single word post.

Do I have to post a laughing emoticon EVERY time I'm (attempting at) being funny?

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

What makes a person more partisan?

In my view, being able & willing to ignore and/or twist facts to support your preconceived notions on an issue- something many here do at times (I know I have). The trick is to be open in honest discussion to the possibility that you may have something to learn about your OWN blindness to something you perceive as true that is not.
Finn has, on more than one ocassion, called me on my s**t, and forced me to re-evaluate my sometimes left-leaning take on things. As a matter of fact, I'm much more in the middle, politically speaking, than I was when I joined this board in early 2005.

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I am simply amazed and aghast at your endless energy in attacking and insulting everyone who is not a Liberal Democrat.

Come on, Jong- attacking hippocracy hardly needs a political base, you find it in both left & right views (as demonstrated in both past & present administrations).

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Heh... funny how you wrote that as if I was a liberal and others here think i'm a Raving Rethug.

You are hard to pin down that way, 6ix, and as such, you can be anybody's target of the moment.

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Everyone, with the exception of PirateNews, is welcome in the arena of ideas.

Ah, the exception that proves the fascist tendency in your thinking, Hero. Gotta look to that.

The laughing Chrisisall

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, May 29, 2009 6:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Do I have to post a laughing emoticon EVERY time I'm (attempting at) being funny?

In this environment I'd say...yea.

People are throwing the word "Liar" around. Just trying to clear up what happened.

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 7:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Just trying to clear up what happened.

Liar.

just kidding

The laughing Chrisisall

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 8:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero was pretty global. He also conveniently slid past the fact that he refused to engage in substantive discussion when it was offered to him.

I do sometimes take time out to pay the bills.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 8:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

I do sometimes take time out to pay the bills.

Be honest- sometimes you must do as your girlfriend asks and attend her promptly.
You dog.

The laughing Chrisisall

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, May 29, 2009 8:34 PM

Meh.

I think Mikeys first post summed it up adequately enough for me to not bother with comment, honestly.

I don't have a problem with an admitted agenda, I make it plain as day I have one and have even tried a couple times to explain it, hell, I picked out a title that damn well oughta give someone an idea of where my bent in a discussion is gonna go to begin with.

What I always took issue with was hiding intolerance, racism, bitter nationalism and various forms of downright needless, reckless hate, behind a phony mask of reason and logic, something that never holds up when the issue actually gets discussed, as one might notice.

As for who has any right to discuss - hell, everyone, whozit and PN specifically included, sometimes they're even funny.

As for Rappy takin his marbles and goin home, in order to do that, first he'd have to FIND all his marbles....

Just sayin,

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 8:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Everyone, with the exception of PirateNews, is welcome in the arena of ideas.
Ah, the exception that proves the fascist tendency in your thinking, Hero. Gotta look to that.

My ongoing pokes at PN are a matter of record.

Its not bias or fascist if its directed against one person. There is a vast Right-Wing Conspiracy...but its entirely directed against him and only him. Who do you think is responsible for sending the Tennessee State Gangsta Highway Patrol Death Squads...its not the Nazi-Jew Queen...its the fellas that are watching him via a transmitter in his cat's brain...aka, H.E.R.O. (I'd tell you what it stands for, but then PN would have to kill you).

We dispatch the little old ladies that drive slowly in front of him. We delay his service at resturants. We have agents who talk behind him in theaters. We make sure the guy hired two months ago gets PN's rightful promotion. We rearrange his medicine cabnet when he's at work. We make his TV black out during the final seconds of the big game. We change the traffic lights making him late. We change the clocks in his office making him work an extra five minutes every third day. We replace his clothes with smaller sizes. We are making his hair fall out using the same chemicals in his water that prevent him from having intimite relations with a woman. We are responsible for the American Idol final vote (or did you think the 23 million votes cast by PN were really cast by him). We put the subliminal messages in his online porn. We change the expiration date on his milk.

But aside from that I respect all of you and your thoughtfully argued and reasoned opinions.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

HERO

Friday, May 29, 2009 8:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Be honest- sometimes you must do as your girlfriend asks and attend her promptly.
You dog.

I take that as a compliment. My girlfriend is hot...and I "attend" to her as often as possible.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 8:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

As for Rappy takin his marbles and goin home, in order to do that, first he'd have to FIND all his marbles....

BWAHAHAHAH- hey, did you borrow that joke from "Hook"?

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Friday, May 29, 2009 9:17 PM

Quote:

I think Mikeys first post summed it up adequately enough for me to not bother with comment, honestly.

Don't credit me - I stole that pic from ChrisIsAll!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, May 29, 2009 9:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Everyone, with the exception of PirateNews, is welcome in the arena of ideas.
Ah, the exception that proves the fascist tendency in your thinking, Hero. Gotta look to that.

The laughing Chrisisall

Reminds me of this

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/05/20095271616462355
6.html

Israel debates 'loyalty' law

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 29, 2009 9:47 PM

WE ARE NOTHING BUT A HAPPY-MONKEY-ONLY CLUB NOW.

The laughing Chrisisall

WHOZIT

Friday, May 29, 2009 9:57 PM

Rap, it's "Real World", you can post current events here. Suck it up!

CAUSAL

Friday, May 29, 2009 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

Concur.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CAUSAL

Friday, May 29, 2009 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Thanks for making my case for me.

Quite.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

CHRISISALL

Saturday, May 30, 2009 1:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Quite.

Oh stop.
Shouting down ignorance from NeoCons OR
LoonyLeftists is no travesty- please stop with the bleeding heart already.

The laughing Chrisisall

CAUSAL

Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:16 AM

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

JONGSSTRAW

Saturday, May 30, 2009 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Quite.

Oh stop.
Shouting down ignorance from NeoCons OR
LoonyLeftists is no travesty- please stop with the bleeding heart already.

The laughing Chrisisall

Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here? Who ever started the downhill spiral into the nastiness and hatred we see every day in RWED?

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:03 AM

Imma assume that question is rhetorical...

On the other hand I will admit to occasionally greasing the slope at times myself, cause, well - sometimes it's funny.

-F

JONGSSTRAW

Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Imma assume that question is rhetorical...

On the other hand I will admit to occasionally greasing the slope at times myself, cause, well - sometimes it's funny.-F

This place was already half a sewer when I came here a couple of years ago. It's only gotten worse since then. You've been here far longer and should know better. I don't put you into the personal attack category. You're more the hate-everything guy, which I'll always have a hard time understanding.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here?

Because opinions on movies & TV shows are just that- opinions. Real life has FACTS that peeps LIKE to have opinions on, but opinions on facts brings frustration into play. For instance, it's a FACT the Bush's administration was not a very good one for America & the world...what can be argued is the degree of bad... to deny that it WAS bad is where frustration & insults start coming in. Wanna argue if tides are caused by the Moon's gravitation influence? You'll get made fun of too, I guarantee you.

Quote:
Who ever started the downhill spiral into the nastiness and hatred we see every day in RWED?

Off the top of my head- a guy named Andrew about 3 or 4 years ago, a dismissive little authoritarian elitist punk who thought he knew everything about everything (he makes Hero & AURaptor look like warm & fuzzy middle-roaders by comparison), and after a few months, he started getting blasted from all sides, so much so that he left with his tail between his legs. But the resentment for that kind of know-it-all NeoCon dweeb lingered, and I think you're seeing it's residual effects today.

The RWED Historian Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Saturday, May 30, 2009 5:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

I see your tongue & raise you an eyebrow.

The laughing Chrisisall

KPO

Saturday, May 30, 2009 7:14 PM

Quote:
For instance, it's a FACT the Bush's administration was not a very good one for America & the world...

Ah, amigo how can anyone claim that as a fact? You can claim a lot of facts that reflect poorly on the Bush administration, economic turmoil, costly wars with civilian casualties, lack of movement on issues such as health care reform, climate change and energy independence - and even also less tangible 'facts' like an increase in anti-US sentiment and loss of standing in the world.

But the Bush administration being 'not very good' is not a fact you can point to - it implies that other administrations in the same (arguably quite difficult) circumstances would've produced better results - and how can you prove that? The only alternate-reality machines we have are our imaginations, and there's no question of these producing 'facts'.

The Bush administration has been bad: it's the truth I believe - which is more profound than facts, but oh so much harder to prove (and getting people to believe facts can be hard enough).

Heads should roll

CAUSAL

Saturday, May 30, 2009 8:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:

I see your tongue & raise you an eyebrow.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:06 PM

Quote:
Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here?

Because the stakes are higher.

And to be bluntly honest with you, most political forums of any kind aren't "nice" - they're run by folk with an agenda of *some* kind, who usually practice ironhanded and/or stealth censorship of dissenting opinions.

So while on the surface they might LOOK like decent places, with well managed and restrained opposition, the truth underneath them is the same underlying North Korean society - actually make a REAL arguement and back it up at one of those other places, and you, your posts and your posting name just freakin disappear.

That's one reason I *like* this place, nasty at times that it is, because you HAVE to argue your point, and well - rather than getting a "friendly" mod to ban someone you disagree with just cause they happen to be ripping your argument to shreds.

And when folks used to having that unfair advantage wind up with their back against the wall, they lash out in some of most horrific ways, what I call tearing the mask, cause the true face of their argument and personhood behind it comes out and you get to see what they and their agenda REALLY are.

And most of the time it ain't pretty - what's ugly about this place is that it's one of the few where you will see the truth of the arguments and agendas undernearth the bullshit facades, and believe me that extends to all four axises of the political spectrum, cause you've seen me have at any and all of them yourself Jongs, even you in respect to how actually understanding our opponents instead of holding up fictional distortions and exaggerations is the key to beating them, although that discussion was more hostile lecture than personal attack - if I make it personal with someone they're in no doubt about it.

As for why you do not understand - you have to realize I am a Humanist who firmly believes that encouraging and evolving our humanity rather than trying to destroy or deny it, is the key to our ability to survive and prosper as a species.

Once you understand THAT principle, all else should make sense to you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

WASHNWEAR

Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Quite.

Oh stop.
Shouting down ignorance from NeoCons OR
LoonyLeftists is no travesty- please stop with the bleeding heart already.

The laughing Chrisisall

Why can't the RWED have the same positive tone and higher standards of friendly sharing we see in the general sci-fi threads here? Who ever started the downhill spiral into the nastiness and hatred we see every day in RWED?

For all's consideration: The LibDem end of the Browncoat spectrum has never got over the unlooked-for realization that there could be such a thing as the ConRep end of the Browncoat spectrum...and the ConRep end is probly tired of being treated like the shallow-affect, cross-dressing, record-having uncle that nobody wants at the reunions.

I mean, honestly - when I first started lurking around here, it never once dawned on me that I might see a self-professed Browncoat make a post in defense of Bush, Cheney, or the war in Iraq. Clearly I was mistaken - I let my unconscious prejudices and expectations lead me to unwarranted assumptions about the Firefly demographic, and...

I'm sorry - what was the question...?

EB: Comma deficit...I just couldn't restrain myself.

donttalkbackjustdrivethecarshutyourmouthiknowwhatyouaredontsaynothinkeepyourhandsonthewheeldontturnaroundthisisforreal

Still...what would Rorschach do?

KWICKO

Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:33 PM

Quote:
Posted by Fremdfirma:

And to be bluntly honest with you, most political forums of any kind aren't "nice" - they're run by folk with an agenda of *some* kind, who usually practice ironhanded and/or stealth censorship of dissenting opinions.

So while on the surface they might LOOK like decent places, with well managed and restrained opposition, the truth underneath them is the same underlying North Korean society - actually make a REAL arguement and back it up at one of those other places, and you, your posts and your posting name just freakin disappear.

Too bloody true, that.

CAUSAL

Saturday, May 30, 2009 9:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
For all's consideration: The LibDem end of the Browncoat spectrum has never got over the unlooked-for realization that there could be such a thing as the ConRep end of the Browncoat spectrum...and the ConRep end is probly tired of being treated like the shallow-affect-cross-dressing-record-having uncle that nobody wants at the reunions.

EXACTLY! This is essentially what I've been struggling to say for the last 2 years--just couldn't quite put it this succinctly. If you go back 5-6 years, you'll see that there was quite a bit of political discussion going on, most of it quite vigorous, but mostly very civil. And the interesting thing was that while there LibDem side was better represented, there were quite a few ConRep folks. But over the course of time (*cough* through the Bush years *cough*) the boards definitely took on a LibDem demographic. As that's happened, the discourse got meaner and meaner (I was once told that all Christians should be burned alive, for example). It's really hard--I used to love being part of the FFF.net community. But the more the ideology of the boards hardened (and this is my perception mind you) the less welcome I felt until now I hardly come around at all.

But guess what? It's not that there aren't any ConRep Browncoats. It's just that they don't come around here much, perhaps because they don't feel welcome. Too bad, really.

________________________________________________________________________

- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
- Vote JonnyQuest/Causal, for Benevolent Co-Dictator of Earth; together, toward a brighter tomorrow!

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, May 31, 2009 2:59 AM

Aw hell, since without any check against it, the pathetic revisionism, whining and apologism is just gonna continue - imma just freakin call it, and I don't care who it pisses off.

Maybe, Casual - if they wanted to feel welcome, maybe they should not have brought the nasty!

Your little ConRep spectrum buddies brought it in the first place, and when they got backed up into corners by trying to sell lies, racism, religious intolerance and sheer malice at anything that wasn't them, took things to levels of vicious unacceptable in any society and then tried to spin the blame at everyone else for daring to disagree with them.

I sat here and watched it, mind you, and while that blame is not exclusive to em, it damn well was 75-80% of the conduct in question comin from that end of the spectrum, and eventually folks lost patience with actually trying to reason with folks who would have NONE of it, who NO proof was ever enough for, who were more interested in trying to brute-force their ideology on others than reason and negotiate (which, you think about it, was what that's been *about* for the past six years or so) - and began to respond in kind.

At which point most of them threw a tantrum, acted all offended and wronged, tried to play the victim (like what's happening here) and got mocked for their troubles.

The remainder, many of, decided to try making up in rabidity and viciousness what their arguments lacked in value, and by that action ran off quite a few more reasonable posters as well, figuring if they could run off anyone who disagreed with em, they would "win" - which isn't exactly conducive to the concept of having a rational discussion to learn from each other, is it now ?

At which point some folk, ironically from quite varied points of view, decided to draw a line and refused to be run off by that conduct, most of whom were our core group of posters for the last year and a half, while many of the decent ConRep folk simply gave up because they couldn't make a halfway decent argument without catching the backlash from the ones who were acting like shit throwing monkeys instead of human beings, although they never seemed to call out their fellows on the same conduct they were howling at he LibDem spectrum for - so in my opinion they deserved that backlash every bit as much as a good cop who turns a blind eye to corruption in his department does.

Now, you're gonna believe whatever it suits you to believe, but given the recent conduct over the past several months of the folk whom you're trying to play apologist for here, you might rethink how that makes you look in the eyes of folk who stood their ground against what amounted to a scorched earth campaign intended to destroy this place as a forum of discussion as petty revenge for having arguments that never held water in the first place shot to pieces on em.

I been biting my tongue on it so far, but this dumptruck load of poor little me apologism bullshit for the very folks who brought the discussion down to that level isn't gonna fly with me - especially when you base it on obvious lies few others have been here long enough to catch out.

Oh, and for the record, it was me that make the comment regarding torching christians in light of the fact that they whine about 'persecution' despite being the ones that actually DID burn people alive - and thus perhaps if they had it happen to them they'd actually have cause to whine - especially when a good bit of them still WOULD resort to that if they could only get away with it, and how do you think that makes the folk who'd be on the receiving end feel about them trying to illegally sideslip their religion into our government ?

Now, if you'd like to put down the shovel and actually have a discussion, you're more than welcome, but till that point, don't piss on our heads and tell us it's rainin, Casual.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:28 AM

Hell, the clash of ideology and bitter resentments and confrontations that happen on this board are just a sign of the same going on in the outside world.

The Conrep side are at present feeling out, I think, simply because they have lost the control and power they were enjoying the past eight years.

The LibDem side are feeling out, because their guy got in, has the power and is not righting all the wrongs they were hoping to see righted.

This is the end result of the weakness of the US political system, two partys in which the elite of your country controls who rises to what position, two viewpoints which takes your country to the same place, only varying slightly in the path taken...... This causes frustration and friction and righteous anger

Many have clashed here, but some consistently come only to spout off and rant...

I will not miss AU because he rarely if ever brought anything but the party line, refused to justify or budge on any position no matter how insane, and was rather ignorant to anyone who disagreed with his limited viewpoint.

Maybe he should run for office, because he appears to be rather typical of todays politicians.

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

JKIDDO

Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:34 AM

Quote:
For all's consideration: The LibDem end of the Browncoat spectrum has never got over the unlooked-for realization that there could be such a thing as the ConRep end of the Browncoat spectrum...and the ConRep end is probly tired of being treated like the shallow-affect-cross-dressing-record-having uncle that nobody wants at the reunions.-Washnwear

EXACTLY! This is essentially what I've been struggling to say for the last 2 years--just couldn't quite put it this succinctly. If you go back 5-6 years, you'll see that there was quite a bit of political discussion going on, most of it quite vigorous, but mostly very civil. And the interesting thing was that while there LibDem side was better represented, there were quite a few ConRep folks. But over the course of time (*cough* through the Bush years *cough*) the boards definitely took on a LibDem demographic. As that's happened, the discourse got meaner and meaner (I was once told that all Christians should be burned alive, for example). It's really hard--I used to love being part of the FFF.net community. But the more the ideology of the boards hardened (and this is my perception mind you) the less welcome I felt until now I hardly come around at all.-Causal

Hmmm... Have you actually been READING this forum?

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

This is the end result of the weakness of the US political system, two partys in which the elite of your country controls who rises to what position, two viewpoints which takes your country to the same place, only varying slightly in the path taken...... This causes frustration and friction and righteous anger

Spot on, Gino.

The laughing Chrisisall

RIVER6213

Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

-River

KWICKO

Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:06 PM

Quote:

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

Thing is, River, I don't think anyone "kicked" him off the throne - I think he abdicated all on his own. Still, that doesn't mean there weren't a few "Huzzahs!" over the news!

'Course, that means the throne of fascist ignorance is now up for grabs...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
it never once dawned on me that I might see a self-professed Browncoat make a post in defense of Bush, Cheney, or the war in Iraq.

That was my experience as well. That would be like Jayne going to a Cortex site about guns and ranting that the 'Verse needed greater gun control laws...

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

Never thought of as a king- more of a political court jester myself...

The laughing Chrisisall

ALIASSE

Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

That is so mean. So extremely amusingly mean.

ALIASSE

Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:50 PM

Also, I'd like to nominate myself for the throne of fascist ignorance, because I like power and riches.

OPPYH

Sunday, May 31, 2009 8:23 PM

Face it, Hillary Clinton was the smartest choice for a democratic president. Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him. At first he could do no wrong, but now even his biggest supporters refer to his as "the lesser of two evils" AKA: Obama isn't a good president.
Not very promising.
In a few years, this country will be in such bad shape that RWED will be a memory....along with the internet.

"It's a huge shit sandwich, and were all gonna have to take a bite".

KWICKO

Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

That is so mean. So extremely amusingly mean.

Thank ChrisIsAll for that image - I totally stole it from him! (Or blame him, if you like.)

Quote:
Posted by Aliasse:

Also, I'd like to nominate myself for the throne of fascist ignorance, because I like power and riches.

Ah... but are you FASCIST enough? Methinks not; truly effective fascists don't nominate themselves - they just TAKE what they want! :)

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

ALIASSE

Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:35 PM

All right then. The throne is MINE. (Sorry, was just being a bit British there.) What happens next?

ALIASSE

Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:36 PM

Is there a party?

KWICKO

Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:
All right then. The throne is MINE. (Sorry, was just being a bit British there.) What happens next?

Quote:
Is there a party?

Yes. In America, we call it the "Republican Party".

What happens next is you have to start spouting off all sorts of nonsense. Saddam had WMD, Saddam was behind 9/11, illegal immigrants caused Katrina, gays destroyed the institution of marriage (AND the Miss Universe Pageant!), national healthcare means we all have to become Marxists... the usual stuff. It's not important that any of it be true - you just have to yell a lot.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him. At first he could do no wrong, but now even his biggest supporters refer to his as "the lesser of two evils" AKA: Obama isn't a good president.

We don't KNOW if he's a very good president or not, but so far, I give him a C+ where Bush was a solid F as soon as the Iraq thing began.

There's no such thing as an A prez no more...

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:10 PM

AURaptor's GONE!!!!!

ALIASSE

Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:31 PM

Oh dear. I think I might have to quietly abdicate. My interest in world leaders doesn't go much further than finding Nicholas Sarkozy absurdly hilarious.

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/52/4/Carla_and_Nicolas.0.0.0x0.432x3
34.jpeg

Yes, this really is the president of a G7 country.

Also, I'm basically of the belief that this site is for writing stories about Mal and Inara making up for lost time (kiss kiss).

But I'm happy to act as a sort of figurehead, if there are no other takers.

Down with immigrants! Down with gay immigrants! Down with gay immigrants with WMD! etc. etc.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Aliasse:

But I'm happy to act as a sort of figurehead, if there are no other takers.

Down with immigrants! Down with gay immigrants! Down with gay immigrants with WMD! etc. etc.

You fascist NeoCon dweeb! You're an idiot! You have no case! Conservanazi! I hope you get hit by a freight train with no insurance before Obama's Marxismism of America takes hold and provides us with socialized health care!!!
Damn you! God damn you all to Hell!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

KPO

Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Face it, Hillary Clinton was the smartest choice for a democratic president. Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him.

According to Rasmussen's Daily Presidential Tracking Poll 36% of voters strongly approve of Obama's performance - down just 6% from his figure at inauguration (42%).

See the graph here:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administ
ration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Or this graph for general approval:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

Heads should roll

GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, June 1, 2009 12:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Face it, Hillary Clinton was the smartest choice for a democratic president. Almost all of the Obama lemmings have changed their mind about him. At first he could do no wrong, but now even his biggest supporters refer to his as "the lesser of two evils" AKA: Obama isn't a good president.
Not very promising.
In a few years, this country will be in such bad shape that RWED will be a memory....along with the internet.

"It's a huge shit sandwich, and were all gonna have to take a bite".

I was pretty appalled with Madeline Albright as SecState, and as Hillary and Albright are together on most foreign policy issues, I would likely go to McCain before I would Hillary.

Hey, is that right wing throne still up for grabs...

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

OPPYH

Monday, June 1, 2009 12:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's no such thing as an A prez no more...

Nope. Since I've been alive there has been only one good president....Bill Clinton.
Funny, I used to hate Limbaugh for attacking "Slick Willie", because it was just nonsensical dribble. His Obama rants however haven't been too far off the mark.

At least Obama likes the new Star Trek movie:
http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/05/20/president-obama-reviews-star-trek/

I'll be voting for Palin come 2012.

KPO

Monday, June 1, 2009 1:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

-River

I don't like this attitude that people with right wing views like Auraptor are contemptible as humans and deserving of being trolled.

His views are probably not the pinnacle of honest, compassionate and enlightened human thought (and may even be seen by some to be in some measure damaging, divisive, even offensive), but it's a fallacy to assume that anyone adhering to them must be a bad person.

Frustration at the stubbornness of such personal opinions is perhaps justified, but not ridicule and personal attacks.

Heads should roll

RIVER6213

Monday, June 1, 2009 1:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Which kinda sucks, because I had hoped to engage in some mature, lively and civil discussions over real world matters. But too many here now have openly stated their intent here is nothing but to mock, poke fun and illicit any sort of response, rather than deal in sincere exchange of ideas.

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

You sad little kings who remain enjoy your sad, pathetic little hill.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

It's about time you guys kicked Auraptor off of his fascist throne of ignorance.

-River

I don't like this attitude that people with right wing views like Auraptor are contemptible as humans and deserving of being trolled.

His views are probably not the pinnacle of honest, compassionate and enlightened human thought (and may even be seen by some to be in some measure damaging, divisive, even offensive), but it's a fallacy to assume that anyone adhering to them must be a bad person.

Frustration at such stubborn, personal opinions is perhaps justified, but not ridicule and personal attacks.

Heads should roll

People like Auraptor are too stupid to realize what poisons their words, and beliefs contain. From my position he IS a bad person, but he's too stupid to recognize this fact.

-River

RIPWASH

Monday, June 1, 2009 1:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
I don't like this attitude that people with right wing views like Auraptor are contemptible as humans and deserving of being trolled.

His views are probably not the pinnacle of honest, compassionate and enlightened human thought (and may even be seen by some to be in some measure damaging, divisive, even offensive), but it's a fallacy to assume that anyone adhering to them must be a bad person.

Frustration at such stubborn, personal opinions is perhaps justified, but not ridicule and personal attacks.

Heads should roll

And this is the main reason I hesitated even getting involved in RWED. Most other sections seemed fine and friendly, but here it was just a little bit too nasty. But I jumped in anyway

I was treated with respect (for the most part) as long as I was respectful. It was a little humorous to me to see people have to correct themselves when addressing me ("Remember, this is Rip, he's okay." LOL). But to me, it's also a little unbelievable that someone would think that a Conservative could NOT be a Browncoat. Almost like the idea that a Conservative couldn't possibly like "V for Vendetta" (one of my favorite flicks).

The lashings that AuRaptor received for listening to Limbaugh was another reason. I don't listen to him as much (he's on while I'm at work), but I do listen to and watch Beck and Hannity. And I still bite my tongue when it comes to mentioning things I hear on their shows for fear of everyone dismissing what they say out of hand, even when what they say is simple common sense (at least IMO).

Not all Conservatives are the same and should not be lumped into the same boat. The same thing goes for Liberals. I, for one, see the flaws in the Republican Party and admit that Bush probably wasn't perfect, but was a better choice IMHO than Gore or Kerry. I think flaws abound and there's enough blame to go around for BOTH parties. Be it the economy, Iraq, or whatever. Not everyone here sees that the way I do. Folk like Rue didn't see ANY flaws in their own party. I also hesitate linking any cites for what I believe simply for the fact that if it's Fox New or something that's remotely Conservative, others will dismiss it out of hand and not even consider it. That is the frustration I feel, but I certainly don't hold it against anyone.

I really would like for us to at least come to some agreement that from here on out we keep things as civil as possible. Let's keep things in-line of folk having friendly discussions who agree to disagree on many subject, but who also find common ground on others. No more name-calling when it isn't called for. No more personal attacks just because someone chooses to think differently than you do. I'll make that pledge and humbly (perhaps naively) ask others to do the same. I think it's been proven that when people post here with respect and thoughtfulness that folk will respond in kind.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

KPO

Monday, June 1, 2009 2:25 AM

Quote:
People like Auraptor are too stupid to realize what poisons their words, and beliefs contain.

Undoubtedly there are poisons/toxins in the stream of right wing political thought, which ppl like auraptor might then drink from - if so, that doesn't mean rappy is poisonous himself, although his opinions will be tainted.

Racism is one such poison. I'm new to the US political scene and it's quite partisan tone, but it strikes me that the amount of anti-obama vehemence can only be explained by counting racism as a factor. I was following a female neo-con blogger around the time of Obama's election, and she was practically unravelling with hatred, throwing around terms like 'bird shit soup', and linking racist, anti-black pseudo-science articles. And this is a right-wing opinion former - I first started reading her because a neocon browncoat friend claimed her as a personal hero. This woman blogger is a source of the poison and always has been, not just when she unravelled - it is through her tainted opinions that the poison is passed on and on downstream, so that she will eventually influence thousands of non-racist ppl with her anti-obama spin - only to a very small extent, but if there are enough people like her then the overall effect is significant.

I raise this because Auraptor was branded as racist not long ago, and there was no direct evidence for it that I could see. Just people jumping to an easy conclusion that he is a horrible human being, to be a neocon.

Heads should roll

KPO

Monday, June 1, 2009 2:58 AM

Quote:
But to me, it's also a little unbelievable that someone would think that a Conservative could NOT be a Browncoat.

Yeah, I think it's crazy.

Quote:
I also hesitate linking any cites for what I believe simply for the fact that if it's Fox New or something that's remotely Conservative, others will dismiss it out of hand and not even consider it. That is the frustration I feel

That's a shame. Auraptor was quite brave in nailing his colours to the mast so proudly and defiantly in my opinion (even as one of the people frequently challenging them) - I think that defiance rankled people (as well as perhaps some intransigence), and things turned more and more personal.

Quote:
No more name-calling when it isn't called for. No more personal attacks just because someone chooses to think differently than you do.

Agreed. It's not always easy though! I think there will always be frustration in political debate - the key I think is biting your tongue a little, and giving fellow browncoats at least the benefit of the doubt of being a decent person.

Heads should roll

JKIDDO

Monday, June 1, 2009 2:58 AM

None of you realize why rappy has earned MY dismissal. It's not that he listens to Limbaugh or Coulter. It's that I've tried to engage rappy in rational discussion over and over again. He says something: All those UN resolutions in Iraq provided justification for invasion. I counter with the fact that since UN resolutions supersede each other only the last one counts. Quoted Bush and Blair on that point. Went through R1440 in detail, line by line... there was NO invasion language. Even posted some UN resolutions which INCLUDED intervention language so that rappy could see how it reads. When rappy realized that he really DIDN'T have a case, rather than admitting he might be wrong, he slid out of the thread. Then popped up again with the same point (all those UN resolutions...) two weeks later.

Same with Frank and Dodd bringing down western civilization. Or the economy being "on fire". Or Saddam having WMD. Or any number of talking points which he brings to the board.It doesn't matter how reasonable and factual one is with him. He simply plugs his ears and goes la la la I can't hear you and spews names and insults.

MY response was generally either to be reasonable or ignore him, as I would with ANY OTHER TROLL. BECAUSE THAT"S WHAT RAPPY WAS: A TROLL.

I find it ironic that rappy, of all people, would complain about this being troll country. I'm sorry he never learned anything from his participation here... not even how to have a decent discussion... but I'm very glad he's gone.

WHOZIT: You seem to be under the impression that Rue and I tried to ban you from the board. I have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and neither does Rue. But as far as I'm concerned you're just another troll.

OPPYH

Monday, June 1, 2009 3:16 AM

Quote:

As other's have parted ways from this forum, I too think it may be wise to do the same. The repetitive incidents by some of expanding on misleading and false minutia has left its toll. Whether by design or merely a display of colossal ignorance by some, does not matter.

Yes, by leaving the RWED, you are doing yourself a disservice. You have a voice, and it will soon be silenced. Is this how you want to be remembered?
Be someone...be counted. Make your voice heard.
If you were a jew in Nazi occupied France would you simply give in, and walk into the death camps?
OR would you fight with every last breath to stay alive/overthrow the opposition.

You have brought up some valid, thought provoking discussions in the past. This has triggered a combative/mocking response by those who didn't have a valid answer to questions you posed. Some even looked for typos, or misspellings in your posts as a makeshift, last ditch effort to try to derail your train of thought. Of course this didn't work. You shouldn't leave.

"The model isn't defective, it's the mold that is broken"
OPPYH

KPO

Monday, June 1, 2009 3:24 AM

Quote:
None of you realize why rappy has earned MY dismissal. It's not that he listens to Limbaugh or Coulter. It's that I've tried to engage rappy in rational discussion over and over again. He says something: All those UN resolutions in Iraq provided justification for invasion. I counter with the fact that since UN resolutions supersede each other only the last one counts. Quoted Bush and Blair on that point. Went through R1440 in detail, line by line... there was NO invasion language. Even posted some UN resolutions which INCLUDED intervention language so that rappy could see how it reads. When rappy realized that he really DIDN'T have a case, rather than admitting he might be wrong, he slid out of the thread. Then popped up again with the same point (all those UN resolutions...) two weeks later.

Lol. No, you could defend rappy not responding to certain points by saying he was always outnumbered and encircled in debates - but I did get the impression myself from arguing with him that his belief system was pretty well insulated.

Not convinced that this amounts to being a troll though, and I don't think there was a need for the general open-season-of-personal-ridicule-on-rappy attitude.

Quote:
spews names and insults

Hmm. Well I can't recall getting such abuse from him myself, and when I saw him giving it to others it was generally people he had long running feuds with, who were doing the same to him.

Heads should roll

JKIDDO

Monday, June 1, 2009 3:53 AM

I have an opinion what rappy was doing here. Rappy is, IMHO, delusional. And people who are delusional don't process contradicting information normally. What they do is twist facts around until they can re-justify their delusion, and this give them a shot of dopamine (the addiction neurotransmitter). So- IMHO- rappy was not here to discuss and he wasn't even here to proselytize. He wasn't trying to convince anyone else of his viewpoints, he was convincing HIMSELF. Everyone else here are just shadow puppets to his own mental drama.

OPPYH

Monday, June 1, 2009 4:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JKiddo:
I have an opinion what rappy was doing here. Rappy is, IMHO, delusional. And people who are delusional don't process contradicting information normally. What they do is twist facts around until they can re-justify their delusion, and this give them a shot of dopamine (the addiction neurotransmitter).

Same can be said about anyone with a strong opinion.
Some of his posts were about as straight laced as you can get. It was those who didn't want to hear what he had to say that twisted it into a mockery(attacking his character, and motive) because of their blind Obama worship.
Like you attack his character even now. Delusional doesn't enter into the equation. He simply expressed interest in real world events that most on this site don't agree with.

Funny thing is if someone else had written the exact posts as he(READ: favored people) they would have been met with generosity, and understanding.
But beacuse Rappy is Rappy he got attacked nearly every time, which is unfair, and uncalled for.

JKIDDO

Monday, June 1, 2009 5:25 AM

I don't know what a "straight laced" post is. There are facts and then there are not-facts. Rappy is one of those people who thinks the earth is flat, despite all evidence to the contrary. But if you want to go through some of his opinions with me, I'll be happy to. Just don't start name-calling.

CITIZEN

Monday, June 1, 2009 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

But beacuse Rappy is Rappy he got attacked nearly every time, which is unfair, and uncalled for.

You were saying something about favoured posters? It appears Rap is yours. Every argument, every slanging match, EVERY SINGLE insult thrown at Rap, was in response to an attack he made on someone else.

Unfair and uncalled for? Bullshit. He was treated as he treated others, his treatment was not only fair, it was even moderate compared to his own behaviour. Unfair and uncalled for describes only one persons treatment of others here, AURaptor's. If by unfair and uncalled for, you mean he was treated much more fairly, honestly and respectfully than he ever treated others, then you're on to something. His treatment of anyone who dared disagree with his yes, FASCIST viewpoint, really was unfair and uncalled for.

The charges of racism made up? Or Maybe certain people don't WANT to see Rap's self evident racism, because he calls himself a conservative, making him "one of them". Rap's no conservative, Rap wasn't even a real person, Rap was/is someone's sockpuppet. People didn't distort his reasonable conservative views, his views WERE the distortion. Personally my estimation would be that Chrisisall has been pulling Rap's strings, but regardless people aren't distorting him or his position, if you say things that can be put side by side with quotes from the motherfucking nazis, and it be difficult to tell what was Rap's statements, and what was Himmlers, I get to call you a Fascist. Don't like it, don't be a Fascist, pretty easy that.

AURaptor spouted off about towel heads and camel jockeys, AURaptor would like to see the whole middle east turned into a grave yard. AURaptor openly supported the murder of innocent children, babies in fact, because they were Palestinian.

The charges of Fascism and Racism are fairly solid, just because you're willing to turn a blind eye because he erroneously claims that he is a conservative, doesn't mean anyone else will or should. And yeah, if you hold and support terrible opinions, if you spout racism and fascist sentiment, you ARE a bad person, lets get that shit straight right now. IF AURaptor is the screen name of a real person, and IF that person holds the views and opinions that AURaptor spouts, that person is withered to the core. In fact it's really appropriate you mentioned the nazis, because frankly they're the only other group that sounds like Rap.

You want to defend Nazi's if they call themselves "conservative", go for it. Go read Mein Kampf and comeback here and tell us Hitler wasn't such a bad sort after all. Sure he wanted to kill all the Jews, but he was a Vegetarian and he did LOVE his Dogs. So he couldn't be a terrible person really.

And for the record, while you're carrying Rap's water for him, banging on about the injustice of his treatment, you should perhaps realise that you are doing exactly to us what you erroneously claim we're doing to Rap. You need to believe that all "libruls" are bad people, and all conservatives are good so much that you'll even defend a wannabe Nazi if they call themselves "Conservative"? Really? Bravo.

The fact you can defend someone with no contribution, no character, and no visible basic human decency, while trying to character assassinate anyone who objects to that shadows evil, speaks to only one persons character.

KWICKO

Monday, June 1, 2009 11:39 AM

Quote:
Not everyone here sees that the way I do. Folk like Rue didn't see ANY flaws in their own party. I also hesitate linking any cites for what I believe simply for the fact that if it's Fox New or something that's remotely Conservative, others will dismiss it out of hand and not even consider it. That is the frustration I feel, but I certainly don't hold it against anyone.

Ripper, it isn't that Rue can't *see* any flaws in her party - it's that calcified mindset that folks like Rappy brought here, where if you EVER admit so much as "Yeah, Obama screwed the pooch on that one...", they're going to immediately pounce in and shout, "I WIN! I TOLD YOU SO! HE'S A SOCIALIST! THERE'S THE PROOF - YOU AGREED HE'S NOT THE MESSIAH!!"

As a reaction to that, many found themselves unable to admit here what they'd freely admit elsewhere - that Obama was their choice, and remains so, but that on several key issues, he's been a bit of a disappointment. It doesn't make you less of an Obama supporter to say the man has his flaws. Most so-called Christians I know can only name one man in history who DIDN'T have any flaws, after all...

Now, as to the issue of to cite or not to cite. When you find something you'd like to cite, search a little and see if you can find a cite from a known-liberal AND a known-conservative source (since it's become increasingly apparent that there really ARE no known-neutral sources any more!). That way, somebody might have an issue with the SPIN on the story, but they can't have much of an issue with the FACTS of the reportage.

You'll quickly see, though, if you start comparing coverages, that those "facts" are a bit fungible depending on who's reporting them, and what agenda they're pushing. At the best of times, it's subtle, almost invisible; at the present time, it's glaring and damned annoying.

By the way, you know where I learned that "attack the messenger" mentality and tactic? From watching Rappy do it for so long. Any time you posted something with which he disagreed on ideological grounds, he was quick to jump in and dismiss whatever source you might cite. Oddly, though, he often used those same sources himself, when they reported something he agreed with.

THAT is why I started trying to nail him down and ask which set of rules he wanted to play by, because clearly he wouldn't trust a source like NBC News when it reported bad news for conservatives, but he'd cite them over and over if they reported something tetchy or uncomfortable about liberals.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

KWICKO

Monday, June 1, 2009 11:57 AM

Quote:

Same can be said about anyone with a strong opinion.
Some of his posts were about as straight laced as you can get. It was those who didn't want to hear what he had to say that twisted it into a mockery(attacking his character, and motive) because of their blind Obama worship.

Which is EXACTLY what you've just done yourself, in this very post. You say the people who didn't want to hear Rappy twisted his words and mocked him "because of their blind Obama worship"; funny, that. In that one clause, you've dismissed any liberal or progressive argument out of hand, in essence calling everyone who supports Obama to any degree "delusional".

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

RIPWASH

Monday, June 1, 2009 1:01 PM

But I think some of this still boils down to people not thinking things all the way through when they post - and again this is because of the emotional factor that some political issues bring out in all of us. In fact, this was the point of one of my first posts in RWED and I got skewered for it because I was being considered a Rappy apologist/supporter. That was quickly rectified, thankfully. But it just made me even more skittish about posting here.

Take what Oppyh wrote about Obama worship, for example. Instead of jumping down his/her throat, couldn't somebody just have said "You sure you don't wanna rephrase that?" The initial part of his/her sentence held true in essence. That SOME of Rappy's posts may have been straight-laced and had some merit, but some folk didn't want to see them for what they were and commenced with the personal attacks or whatnot. And yes, I know NOW that's because of the history Rappy built up for himself, but Conservative folk (not all evil, war-loving hate-mongers, mind you) comming into this thread after that history has been built up take a look at everything going on and say, "This is NOT the place to have a civilized, rational discussion." And if you ask me, folk like Whozit only add to the problem by stirring the pot on purpose.

The way I look at it is
1)If you're not 100% certain about something, admit it! i.e. I'm not certain about Iraq having WMD, but the whole thing sure was fishy enough, IMHO, that the case could be built in favor of that assumption. That you may disagree on that point is . . . well, a disagreement

2)Admit the fact that your source may be a little biased, but that it makes sense to you. i.e. I know you guys dont like Fox News, Hannity or Beck, but by golly what they say makes a heck of a lot of sense to me most times. And I'll proudly pronounce that from here on out. You guys are emboldening me, so watch out

3)If you post something that turns out to be in error, admit the fault and add some snark if you'd like, but be honest with yourself. i.e. I humbly backed down and admited my lack of intelligence when it came to healthcare against those who seemed to know more than me (Rue and Sig). I told them they won that round even though I didn't agree totally with what they said. Kwicko has freely admitted that maybe Pelosi and Reid aren't the best leaders for the Democratic Party.

I guess what I'm trying to say is let's have a fresh start of things. Let's ALL try to be more civil. And that goes for EVERYONE. Not any particular person on either side.

*Edited to add - I think we all appreciate Anthony's posts here because he is very kind and seems to really think his way all the way through what he posts. I think he may have been "scared away" again because I haven't seen him post in a while. Could it be because of the in-fighting? If so, then that's pretty sad, if you ask me.

*********************************************
Mal: You think she'll hold together?
Zoë: She's torn up plenty, but she'll fly true.
Mal: Could be bumpy.
Zoë: Always is

KWICKO

Monday, June 1, 2009 2:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Take what Oppyh wrote about Obama worship, for example. Instead of jumping down his/her throat, couldn't somebody just have said "You sure you don't wanna rephrase that?"

I don't think I "jumped down" Oppyh's throat; I was pointing out the subtle hypocrisy of flaming a group of people as "Obama worshippers" while chastising them for flaming someone else.

Quote:
The initial part of his/her sentence held true in essence. That SOME of Rappy's posts may have been straight-laced and had some merit, but some folk didn't want to see them for what they were and commenced with the personal attacks or whatnot.

But I can make the exact same claim! I've laid out several arguments based on facts, and I've taken Rap's own words and his own "facts" that he's cited, and I've quite simply demolished his arguments time after time after time - as have any number of other members here. And what did we get for our troubles? For myself, I was routinely responded to with such gems as "Shut the fuck up, you dick head. You are a idiot. I'm right, you're wrong, and fuck off."

So no matter how "strait-laced" my own posts and arguments might have been, they were ALWAYS going to be answered with name-calling and insult from Rappy. He was never going to see them for what they were or weigh the evidence on its own merits; he was going to dismiss it out of hand ONLY BECAUSE it was *I* who posted it, and for no other reason whatsoever.

Quote:
And yes, I know NOW that's because of the history Rappy built up for himself, but Conservative folk (not all evil, war-loving hate-mongers, mind you) comming into this thread after that history has been built up take a look at everything going on and say, "This is NOT the place to have a civilized, rational discussion." And if you ask me, folk like Whozit only add to the problem by stirring the pot on purpose.

...and then you went ahead and posted anyway, not sure if you should, and how did that go? Not speaking for anyone else here, but if I remember correctly, I greeted you and we argued, but we actually had our discussions about real issues, and those discussions have each had points made and conceded on either side.

WhoZit is comic relief, nothing more, nothing less. I fully support his being allowed to post here, because no matter what he posts, I can either agree with it or shoot it out of the sky.

Quote:
Kwicko has freely admitted that maybe Pelosi and Reid aren't the best leaders for the Democratic Party.

Admitted it? Hell, that's an understatement; I've proclaimed it loudly and vigorously from the mountaintops since the day they were intalled in their positions of power! And I'd dearly love to see them replaced, but - and I really MUST point this out yet again - if we're going to bounce either or both of them from their positions, can we PLEASE do so on legitimate grounds?

Quote:
I think we all appreciate Anthony's posts here because he is very kind and seems to really think his way all the way through what he posts. I think he may have been "scared away" again because I haven't seen him post in a while. Could it be because of the in-fighting? If so, then that's pretty sad, if you ask me.

Well, I don't think Anthony scares easily, so I doubt that's the reason he hasn't been around much. I think life got in the way; I know he's been having some problems trying to stay in the house he bought, and that's been weighing heavily on him. But yes, Anthony is the poster-child for having a rational discussion, and his presence here is dearly missed. I have no doubt that he'll return, though.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

"You're a idiot." -AuRaptor, RWED, May 27, 2009.

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