Star Trek Better Second Time
POSTED BY: Jongsstraw
UPDATED: Sunday, May 24, 2009 21:47
VIEWED: 10445
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:So here again is the assumption, being repeated over and over, that there are no viable experienced officers in San Francisco to command the Enterprise. Not one. There are only Admirals and cadets. Search the halls of starfleet academy if you'd like but you shall not find one single Commander, Lt. Commander, Lt., Lt Jr G, or an ensign. Also lets not ignore that there are no captains either: either commanding another ship, themselves shipless (teaching perhaps) or retired (Jon Archer). No sir, you cannot find anyone either on campus or off as experienced and battle tested as James T. Kirk, Cadet. Not even Spock who has 11 years in the service of starfleet.
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Also consider that, like Kirk in the future, one must step down from Admiralty to Command as Captain, and did anybody at Starfleet want to do that?
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Quote:Hear, hear.
Originally posted by Storymark:
They lost 7 ships. Seven. Not the whole damned fleet. There were surely other captains out there.
The ships lost were 7 of the 8 in earth orbit spacedock.
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
there are no viable experienced officers in San Francisco to command the Enterprise. Not one. There are only Admirals and cadets. Search the halls of starfleet academy if you'd like but you shall not find one single Commander, Lt. Commander, Lt., Lt Jr G, or an ensign. Also lets not ignore that there are no captains either: either commanding another ship, themselves shipless (teaching perhaps) or retired (Jon Archer). No sir, you cannot find anyone either on campus or off as experienced and battle tested as James T. Kirk, Cadet. Not even Spock who has 11 years in the service of starfleet.
Movie.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Movie.
Really?
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:I agree, but if a movie is entertaining, like STII or STIV, I find myself able to go with it.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Now that's just some logic-strained made-up bs to rationalize a silly plot hole. Please.
The laughing Chrisisall
Me, too. I thought I'd made it clear that I dug the shit out of it. That does not mean, however, that I am blind to it's flaws, or that they're not worth discussing.
And yeah, it's a movie. So? You're on a TV/Movie fansite. These are the things that are discussed in such place. And excusing away poor writing by saying it's "just a movie" is one of the most infuriatingly lazy defenses ever.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:You wanna change the way major motion pictures are written & produced, go ahead.
Originally posted by Storymark:
And excusing away poor writing by saying it's "just a movie" is one of the most infuriatingly lazy defenses ever.
Me? I'll enjoy what I can, and bypass the rest.
And produce my own PERFECT material.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:You wanna change the way major motion pictures are written & produced, go ahead.
Originally posted by Storymark:
And excusing away poor writing by saying it's "just a movie" is one of the most infuriatingly lazy defenses ever.
Huh? And what does that have to do with my statement.....?
I wasn't talking about how they're made. I'm talking about lame excuses. I have no idea what you're going on about now.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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While I agree Kirk’s jump from Cadet to Captain was a bit of a stretch, I don’t think it's unjustifiable dramatically. Consider:
1. While Kirk was a hot-headed rebel-without-a-clue in civilian life, we don’t know that this attitude persisted at the Academy. Outside of possibly dubious taste in bed-partners, Kirk’s only major departure from discipline was his response to the Kobiyashi Maru test – a response that, in the prime universe, won him a commendation for original thinking! If his hearing had not been interrupted by the call to arms, the same thing might have happened in the alternate reality.
2. Kirk wasn’t technically a stowaway; Bones was playing sea-lawyer, but Kirk only did what a superior officer told him to. (Not being on suspension, McCoy technically ranked him. I’ll admit, how this would all play out at a Captain’s Mast is another question.)
3. Pike’s appointing Kirk XO was not capricious. He obviously had taken a personal interest in Kirk, and had some idea of the young man’s potential – and with 90%+ of his crew untried Cadets, and what seasoned officers he had needed at their duty posts, it was his best option. And notice, he placed Spock, one of those few, as acting CO.
4. When all’s said and done, Kirk’s command has not just saved Earth, he very likely saved the UFP itself -- (Nero’s proclaimed intention was to destroy all Federation homeworlds, remember, and he had the means to do so.) Plus, he’s also handed Starfleet the secret of Transwarp Transportation, with all the tactical advantage that implies. He's earned that command, baby!
5. Finally, while Starfleet obviously owes a great deal to U.S. Naval tradition, it is not the U.S. Navy, and we have little idea what precedents might exist in their history to justify advancing a Cadet to command rank. Who knows what early-era Wesley Crusher may have pulled the UFP's ashes out of the fire between Archer and Pike. . .
And as to the side issue of Spock’s marooning of Kirk – I see this as the first evidence of his “Emotional Compromise”. After all, in TOS it was shown that Spock could telepathically “feel” the death of a single shipload of Vulcans at great distance – how much worse to feel the death of literal billions from close orbit. It’s a wonder he wasn’t reduced to a vegetable.
"I have been, and always shall be, your friend." -- Spock Prime
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Quote:Movies are made by dudes like you and me, but sometimes with less technical knowledge & creativity... just connections. We gotta like 'em or not, but true genius is a rarity in big money entertainment. JJ is creative, but not a genius. Take his stuff for what it's worth.
Originally posted by Storymark:
Huh? And what does that have to do with my statement.....?
I wasn't talking about how they're made. I'm talking about lame excuses. I have no idea what you're going on about now.
Movies are what they are- big on looks and generally small on intellect.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:Good point.
Originally posted by RocketJock:
it was shown that Spock could telepathically “feel” the death of a single shipload of Vulcans at great distance – how much worse to feel the death of literal billions from close orbit. It’s a wonder he wasn’t reduced to a vegetable.
The laughing Chrisisall
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