Dollhouse Deathwatch

POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Monday, May 18, 2009 20:13
VIEWED: 7856
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KWICKO

Saturday, May 16, 2009 5:11 PM

Quote:
Gwek wrote:

As for Rob Thomas and others following Joss's lead... Sorry, but that structure has been around for a good long time. One could argue that Chris Carter's X-FILES is the show to which most "modern serialized programs" owe their current incarnation. Carter did not originate, but certainly help popularize, the mixing of mythology episodes and standalones (which is where FIREFLY and VERONICA MARS both start out), and also helped pioneer the idea of shooting each episode like a "mini-movie."

Thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't sure if Joss originated the idea, but Buffy was where I first became aware of its structure, and then started noticing it in other shows as well. I didn't really follow X-Files closely enough to have noticed it, but now that you point it out, I can see what you mean, and have to agree.

That kind of structure is both a blessing and a curse, it seems. Those who are into the show are VERY emotionally invested, because they're essenitially in the middle of watching a 22-hour movie. Those who don't watch from the beginning can get very lost and confused, though, and can feel like they never quite catch up, or can't really get that deeply into the story and the deeper arcs, so they tend to give up and say "I don't get it; why do people like this show?" So it can lead to a polarized demographic - those who DEEPLY care about a show, and others who've watched a little here and there, but don't care much at all because they've never really gotten deeply involved in it.

I was in that second category with The X Files; I watched a bit, and enjoyed it, but I couldn't get too crazy about it because I hadn't been into it enough from the beginning. I was very nearly in that category with Veronica Mars; I tried it midway through the second season, because Joss kept posting on Whedonesque how great it was, and I just didn't get it. But then I saw Season 1 DVDs on sale and decided to give it a shot. BAM - I was hooked. And I was a bit heartbroken when it was cancelled. :(

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

BYTEMITE

Saturday, May 16, 2009 7:38 PM

Ah. See, my impression of your opinion of Dollhouse has been in your statements about Joss being not as emotionally attached. Without quoting Joss, I could only figure that you were basing it on your impressions of the show and therefore what effort Joss has put into it. Which I have no problem with, because I take stuff Joss says and try to interpret them as how I'd see things myself, and in fact have been doing so during this argument even.

But what you just posted, while I still don't agree that Joss hasn't put as much effort into Dollhouse, I do agree that possibly he's been distancing himself from the get go because he didn't want to be hurt so bad if it was canceled again.

GWEK

Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ah. See, my impression of your opinion of Dollhouse has been in your statements about Joss being not as emotionally attached. Without quoting Joss, I could only figure that you were basing it on your impressions of the show and therefore what effort Joss has put into it. Which I have no problem with, because I take stuff Joss says and try to interpret them as how I'd see things myself, and in fact have been doing so during this argument even.

And see, here's where you get into trouble, trying to guess people's intentions rather than actually listening to what they have to say!

You're speculating on my opinion about something I've not commented on, that I also do not feel is germaine to the point I was trying to make. How Joss feels about DOLLHOUSE and might react to its potential demise has absolutely nothing to do with my personal opinion of DOLLHOUSE, nor should it.

Quote:
But what you just posted, while I still don't agree that Joss hasn't put as much effort into Dollhouse, I do agree that possibly he's been distancing himself from the get go because he didn't want to be hurt so bad if it was canceled again.

Sweet baby Buddha, Batmite, will you actually READ what people write rather than trying to interpret and infer?!?

I didn't say, and I'm still not saying, that Joss didn't put as much "effort" into DOLLHOUSE as other programs. In fact, I LITERALLY said that I was saying something else.

If you're going to respond, please read my actual real words before trying to speculate at what I might or might not be saying based on what I might or might not think about something that might or might not have anything to do with what I have LITERALLY said!

Emotional investment and effort are two VERY different things. I put a lot of effort into my job, but have very little emotional investment. Conversely, my wife and I have a great relationship, so while I have a tremendous emotional investment, one could say we don't have to put a lot of effort into it.

I think Joss did indeed put a lot of EFFORT into DOLLHOUSE, but not a lot of EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT, especially when compared to BUFFY and FIREFLY. If you look at the evolution of DOLLHOUSE (and Joss's role), DOLLHOUSE is essentially one or two steps removed from "work-for-hire," while FIREFLY and BUFFY were labors of love.

Let me state clearly that this has nothing to do with my opinion of DOLLHOUSE, but is based on interviews and history of the show. Indeed, this has been my opinion since BEFORE DOLLHOUSE AIRED.

I hope I've made my viewpoint plain enough.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

CLJOHNSTON108

Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:45 PM

http://io9.com/5256843/dollhouse-gets-a-second-season-to-find-its-iden
tity
http://io9.com/5257353/welcome-to-the-all+new-all+different-dollhouse

________________________

"Spry for a dead fella!"

BYTEMITE

Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:30 PM

Definitely good news. Celebration is conducive to the creative process.

DMI

Monday, May 18, 2009 8:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sickdude:
Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:
Not seeing a lot of positivity on this thread so I thought I'd chime in that I liked Dollhouse. Was it the best series ever? No. But it has already come a long way since the first eps which really did suck. I was very, very happy with the last few episodes and loved Alan's characters (all 48 of them). I'll be sad to see it go if the "realists" are right and very, very happy if FOX decides to give it a second chance.

DMI, I agree 100%! Thanks for summing it up so nicely. As has been pointed out, while the first five episodes were weak, it definitely improved and certainly qualified as great joss story-tellin' by the end. Tons of twists and turns. I hope it gets a second season as well.

You are welcome, sir!
-e

A blog on the struggles of an unpublished writer: http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

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