Gee, what if the Bush White House had done something THIS stupid ?

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 22:59
VIEWED: 3639
PAGE 1 of 1

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:04 AM

Do you think the MSM would have been all over it ? Stating just what a colossally stupid, heartless and outrageous stunt this was ?

Quote:
Jumbo Jet, F-16 Buzz Lady Liberty, Put New York on Edge

"I take responsibility for that decision," said Louis Caldera, Dir. White House Military Office

By BRIAN THOMPSON and HASANI GITTENS

Updated 7:10 PM EDT, Mon, Apr 27, 2009

It wasn't an attack, or even a drill -- it was a government-sponsored photo op.

The Pentagon did tell local authorities about the startling fly-over that sent a Boeing 747 and a F-16 fighter screaming over New York's scarred skyline, but officials said they couldn't share the information with the public. They couldn't even share the information with the mayor.

Mayor Bloomberg said he was "furious" and criticized both the feds and his own administration for failing to issue a simple warning to the public in a city that is still somewhat traumatized by the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

"The good news is it was nothing more than an inconsiderate, badly conceived and insensitive photo op with the taxpayers' money," Bloomberg said.

An official from the Obama administration said the White House Military Office wanted to update its file photo of the president's plane near the Statue of Liberty.

This official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the White House Military Office told the Federal Aviation Administration that it periodically updates file photos of Air Force One near national landmarks, like the statute in New York harbor and the Grand Canyon.

"It's completely asinine after 9/11 to do that," said Keith Mercantine, who witnessed the chaos in Jersey City. "I saw ambulances out here with pregnant women."

An Air Force One lookalike and F-16 buzzed the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor in the morning, halting work on nearby construction sites, causing residents and office workers to flee their high-rises and giving thousands of people in downtown Manhattan and New Jersey a major fright.

At least two people were treated for minor injuries at Jersey City Medical Center after falling during the rush to exit their buildings.

"Everybody panicked," said Daisy Cooper, a Merrill Lynch worker in Jersey City, who lost a nephew on 9/11. "Everybody was screaming and we all ran downstairs. I'm devastated...Everybody was running, we didn't know why we were running. We just knew it was a plane, there we go, 9/11 again."

The Air Force One lookalike is a back up plane for the one used by the president. The plane is designated by the Defense Department as a VC-25 but is recognizable to the public as a Boeing 747.

The Federal Aviation Administration said there was no reason for alarm, even though thousands of people saw the fighter jets circle the statue, along with a VC-25, and immediately thought the worst.

Video at YouTube

Air Force One, F-16 Fly Over Lower Manhattan

"They were making two, maybe three passes," FAA spokesman Jim Peters told News 4 New York. "The [Department of Defense] and the FAA worked this all out in advance."

A Pentagon official confirmed that while the Presidential Airlift Group, which is based out of Andrews Air Force Base, did inform the FAA and New York City officials about this morning's aerial photo op, they also told both agencies not to inform the public about it.The NYPD confirmed that statement.

Louis Caldera, Director of the White House Military Office took the blame for the photo-op flap.

“Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision," said Caldera. "While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it’s clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused.”

There's no word on where the photo op will show up.

Pardon the double post, didn't see it was alread

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:19 AM

About as intelligent as giving Gordon Brown DVDs that dont play in UK. (Unless he's got a dual system DVD/TV)

Just practicing for the next Operation Northwoods psyop. Rhambo reminding Obama who's boss. Step up from cracking knuckles in his ear.

POLL: Would you support the NWO/CIA to hijack Obama by remote control and crash him into the Capitol building, killing all Congress critters?

Sheeple loved it when Bush tried to do it. Too bad Lt Col Rick Gibney shot down Flight 93.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:29 AM

I'm in such a foul mood over this.... you watch the video, and listen to the girl taking it convinced that this was another hijacking. And it sure as hell looks like it! A jumbo jet linter, circling the down town NYC skyline, w/ a USAF jet following along .... ???

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME ???

GOD DAMMIT, WHAT THE HELL WILL IT TAKE BEFORE YOU DUMB MOTHER FUCKERS REALIZE YOU SCREWED UP BIG TIME, PUTTING THIS COMMUNITY LEADER IN THE WHITE HOUSE??

WHOZIT

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:36 AM

It looks like Louis Caldera will be taking the fall for this.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:37 AM

Much as it pains me to agree with you John...

Something about this reeks.

And given how they've been fumbling through the whole damn playbook recently,

What with the push-n-squeeze on the domestic right-leaning folks, helped along by using a media blitz to spook em and marching orders to the alphabet soup boys to put the squeeze on, while flooding them with plants and agents bent on causing another Oklahoma incident...

And now playing the pandemic card as well...

Yeah, I'm concerned - enough so to be teaching organisations I do not in any way politically agree with how to defend themselves against this shit, it's been crash-course city all over and I know damn well you ain't missed that.

Which means what it always means, old friend - we put a boot in their ass and keep it there to prevent em from gettin away with any of this shit so easily, I don't care how much crazy you gotta bury it in to keep em off your back, every time they pull another page out of the Takeover/Northwoods playbook and try to run it up the flagpole, start shootin holes in it.

We've done cut off most of their good recruiting grounds over the past three years, so they're really scraping the bottom of the barrel now with nothin to replace it, one reason for them pushing various forms of civilian conscription as of late, and that means less and less flunkies to have to chew through when they start throwin em to the wolves to save themselves.

You do your job, we'll do ours - just don't get overconfident and stupid enough to make mistakes, panic in the ranks only benefits us when it does not infect us.

They're hurtin for personnel and money right now and anything that costs em either one is gonna hit all the harder.

And don't forget the crazy, the last thing we need is useful folk having accidents.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:41 AM

Quote:
Do you think the MSM would have been all over it ? Stating just what a colossally stupid, heartless and outrageous stunt this was ?

Well, let's see... Seeing as how I heard about it on NPR through the AP News, and then on Sirius Left, and then came home to find it all over the NBC and MSNBC news broadcasts as one of their top stories...

I'm guessing the MSM *IS* all over it.

You seem pretty sure that Obama ordered it, himself, personally. So you don't buy that it was set up by the DoD, with clearance through the FAA?

Or is the President only responsible for what his appointees do or say if he's a Democrat? I don't seem to recall you holding Bush responsible for Abu Ghraib, the torture at Gitmo, or any of the other things that happened on his watch. Was he responsible for the AF1 flyover after Katrina?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:57 AM

So do you personally think this was an asinine stunt or are you just Obama's apologist?

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:08 AM

Quote:
You seem pretty sure that Obama ordered it, himself, personally. So you don't buy that it was set up by the DoD, with clearance through the FAA?

Or is the President only responsible for what his appointees do or say if he's a Democrat? I don't seem to recall you holding Bush responsible for Abu Ghraib, the torture at Gitmo, or any of the other things that happened on his watch. Was he responsible for the AF1 flyover after Katrina?

Mike

Fits the White House's M.O. ( that's Modus Operandi. Look it up ). DVDs that don't work in Region 2, shipping back a bust of Sir Winston Churchill, bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, shaking hands w/ Hugo Chavez, politely sitting there as Ortega lies while bashing the United States.... the list goes on and on, in Obama's glorious 1st 100 Days.

There was no torture at Gitmo. Those guys were being treated like they were at a Sandals Resort spot. Bush was no more responsible for the crimes in Abu Ghraib than he was for any crimes going on in any of the prisons HERE, in this country, never mind one 1000's of miles away. The flyover of New Orleans ? Good idea, actually. How is that remotely an issue ? Oh, it isn't. You're just desperate to fill up space.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:52 AM

Give the guy a break.

You know how much blacks hate to fly...

I keed I keed!

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:04 AM

Quote:

There was no torture at Gitmo. Those guys were being treated like they were at a Sandals Resort spot.

So tell me again how these supposed hard-case terrorists were broken by treating them like they were at a Sandals Resort?

You're lying, yet again.

Quote:
Bush was no more responsible for the crimes in Abu Ghraib than he was for any crimes going on in any of the prisons HERE, in this country, never mind one 1000's of miles away.

So Bush was responsible for not a single one of the things that happened on his watch, yet Obama is responsible for everything that happens on his.

Curious standards you have there. Some might think you're a bit of a partisan...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
So do you personally think this was an asinine stunt or are you just Obama's apologist?

I personally think it was an asinine stunt. But what do I know? I personally think YOU'RE an asinine stunt, too.

KIRKULES

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 2:37 AM

What real news story was this stunt and "pandemic" designed to cover. Maybe that the President is seizing power over the entire economy with his new hereto unheard of Presidential powers. GM, Chrysler, BOA, Citigroup, I wonder what will be the next mega corp he'll add to his personal portfolio.

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:34 AM

Should have done it on April 1, not the 27

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:05 AM

Kwickie

I'm not lying, and you're a fucking dick head.

They Islamo nazis were given 3 square meals a day, "religious appropriate " , outdoor activites,...hell, why the fuck am I telling you? This shit's all known, and you don't care about the facts anyways, so I'll stop wasting my time.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:00 AM

Quote:
What real news story was this stunt and "pandemic" designed to cover.

Smart Kirk, smart.

When some brouhah is goin on out in the street in front of your house, it's ALWAYS a good idea to check for folks creepin over the back fence FIRST.

Would that more folk had realised that in the past 12 years or so.

Anyhow, that was a damn good question, and one ALWAYS worth asking when some media circus starts.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:18 AM

Let's talk about those pesky Facts then, Rappy.

FINAL REPORT OF THE INDEP. PANEL TO REVIEW DOD DETENTION OPERATIONS
PAGE 13.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=7663

"As of the date of this report, there were about 300 incidents of alleged detainee abuse across the Joint Operations Areas. Of the 155 completed investigations, 66 have resulted in a determination that detainees under the control of U.S. forces were abused. Dozens of non-judicial punishments have already been awarded. Others are in various stages of the military justice process.

Of the 66 already substantiated cases of abuse, eight occured at Guatanamo, three in Afghanistan and 55 in Iraq. only about one-third were related to interrogation, and two-thirds to other causes. there were five cases of detainee deaths as a result of abuse by U.S. personnel during interrogations. Many more died from natural causes and enemy mortar attacks. There are 23 cases of detainee deaths still under investigation; three in Afghanistan and 20 in Iraq. Twenty-eight of the abuse cases are alleged to include Special Operations Forces (SOF) and, of the 15 SOF cases that have been closed, ten were determined to be unsubstantiated and five resulted in disciplinary action. The Jacoby review of SOF detention operations found a range of abuses and causes similar in scope and magnitude to those found among conventional forces."

That's just an EXCERPT - The report as a whole is pretty damning, and given that it was processed in 2004 and such techniques were not "officially" ended (although they unofficially continue) until 2009, that's five more years worth of the same shit.

So, torturing folks to DEATH is equivalent to a stay at the Ritz, in your pathetic little world ?

Cause in mine it's a fucking prosecuteable war crime, and right there is a full admission that this conduct was indeed common enough that our own internal investigators felt it to be a serious problem requiring changes of policy which have not been implemented even today.

Now, care to make yourself look even more of an ass, or would you prefer to shut your fucking trap about things you know NOTHING about for once ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

GINOBIFFARONI

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Let's talk about those pesky Facts then, Rappy.

FINAL REPORT OF THE INDEP. PANEL TO REVIEW DOD DETENTION OPERATIONS
PAGE 13.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=7663

"As of the date of this report, there were about 300 incidents of alleged detainee abuse across the Joint Operations Areas. Of the 155 completed investigations, 66 have resulted in a determination that detainees under the control of U.S. forces were abused. Dozens of non-judicial punishments have already been awarded. Others are in various stages of the military justice process.

Of the 66 already substantiated cases of abuse, eight occured at Guatanamo, three in Afghanistan and 55 in Iraq. only about one-third were related to interrogation, and two-thirds to other causes. there were five cases of detainee deaths as a result of abuse by U.S. personnel during interrogations. Many more died from natural causes and enemy mortar attacks. There are 23 cases of detainee deaths still under investigation; three in Afghanistan and 20 in Iraq. Twenty-eight of the abuse cases are alleged to include Special Operations Forces (SOF) and, of the 15 SOF cases that have been closed, ten were determined to be unsubstantiated and five resulted in disciplinary action. The Jacoby review of SOF detention operations found a range of abuses and causes similar in scope and magnitude to those found among conventional forces."

That's just an EXCERPT - The report as a whole is pretty damning, and given that it was processed in 2004 and such techniques were not "officially" ended (although they unofficially continue) until 2009, that's five more years worth of the same shit.

So, torturing folks to DEATH is equivalent to a stay at the Ritz, in your pathetic little world ?

Cause in mine it's a fucking prosecuteable war crime, and right there is a full admission that this conduct was indeed common enough that our own internal investigators felt it to be a serious problem requiring changes of policy which have not been implemented even today.

Now, care to make yourself look even more of an ass, or would you prefer to shut your fucking trap about things you know NOTHING about for once ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

Lets let the ICC decide, I hope thats where Obama is going with the release of documents.

" I wonder if they will give Cheney, Milosevic's old cell "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:29 AM

Funny how the White House is calling it Air Force One when any retard knows it is not, when Obamination is sitting in da house.
I was immediately reminded of Slick Willie freezing LAX for half a day so he could get a haircut from Christoph.
Both are pure class.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kwickie

I'm not lying, and you're a fucking dick head.

They Islamo nazis were given 3 square meals a day, "religious appropriate " , outdoor activites,...hell, why the fuck am I telling you? This shit's all known, and you don't care about the facts anyways, so I'll stop wasting my time.

Well, if *I'M* here, and *YOU'RE* here, isn't it really *OUR* time?

So your defense is that they were properly treated before they were properly tortured?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Funny how the White House is calling it Air Force One when any retard knows it is not, when Obamination is sitting in da house.
I was immediately reminded of Slick Willie freezing LAX for half a day so he could get a haircut from Christoph.
Both are pure class.

Hadn't heard them call it AF1. Heard them say it was a VC-25, and it's one of the backup planes that's designated AF1 when the President is aboard, but that's about it.

You gettin' your news from Fox again? I warned you about that!

I'm curious - how much air traffic did they have to freeze when Bushie finally decided to "get involved" and do a sightseeing flyby of N'awlins? And how long did they ground the rescue helicopters they used as backdrops once he landed and gave his famous "Heckuva job, Brownie" speech? I only bring it up because I'm sure nobody had any immediate need for rescue or aid right about then, ya know...

I only ask because I don't remember you making a stink about those incidents. Might have something to do with party affiliation...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

HERO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Do you think the MSM would have been all over it ? Stating just what a colossally stupid, heartless and outrageous stunt this was ?

Your just mad about the black guy "buzzing" the white lady. Shame.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:24 PM

Frem,

Nice try at spinning the evidence.

I said there was no torture at GITMO, and there was none.

But thanks for playing. Now SHUT THE FUCK UP, ASSHOLE.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:11 PM

Quote:
I said there was no torture at GITMO, and there was none.

Rappy, all you had to do was google torture+guantanamo and this pops up on top:

Detainee Tortured, Says U.S. Official

By Bob Woodward
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 14, 2009

"The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."

"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution. Crawford, a retired judge who served as general counsel for the Army during the Reagan administration and as Pentagon inspector general when Dick Cheney was secretary of defense, is the first senior Bush administration official responsible for reviewing practices at Guantanamo to publicly state that a detainee was tortured."

Once upon a time, you used to have a mind.

Where did it go????

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR20090113033
72.html

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

RUE

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:19 PM

Hey Rap

"Now SHUT THE FUCK UP, ASSHOLE."

***************************************************************

Recognize it from somewhere ?

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hey Rap

"Now SHUT THE FUCK UP, ASSHOLE."

***************************************************************

" sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold "

NOT Torture.

I stand validated. Thanks, ASSHOLES.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:27 PM

Quote:
I stand validated.

really? Did you get a hole punched thru you somewhere, or did you get rubber stamped?

Can we see???

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I stand validated.
really? Did you get a hole punched thru you somewhere, or did you get rubber stamped?

Can we see???

Look up words you obviously don't know the meaning of -

In common usage, validation is the process of checking if something satisfies a certain criterion. Examples would include checking if a statement is true (validity),

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:33 PM

SO.... what were you validated about? That you have the right to say STFU but nobody else does?

BTW rappy, it is possible to KILL someone thru prolonged exposure to cold (it's called hypothermia- look it up) and sleep deprivation, which is why he was in a "life-threatening condition." I know that you feel that you've got to somehow prove no torture took place at Gitmo, but you're having to reject simple words and basic information in order to do it.

Watching you twist facts into prtezels is painful and embarassing. I hope that you don't think you're making points here, because all you're doing is convincing everyone that you're a frightful idiot.

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:39 PM

He didn't suffer torture, he experienced life as a college freshman, w/ out the binge drinking. BFD. He wanted to be a part of the 9/11 murderers. We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains.

Now THAT's justice.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:43 PM

Who ever the shit sucker is who keeps changing the subject title, you're a fucking pussy. Start your own god damn thread.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:51 PM

Quote:
He didn't suffer torture, he experienced life as a college freshman

You repeating the same statement over and over doesn't make it true. And if a college freshman had been left in a LIFE THREATENING SITUATION the parties responsible would be jailed. And I can't imagine what you THINK you're doing here.

Quote:
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:54 PM

Sig

You're a sheep. I will not live my life as a sheep.

It's just that simple.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:56 PM

Quote:
Sig You're a sheep. I will not live my life as a sheep.It's just that simple.

I think you're saying something, but all I hear is baaaah!.... baaahhh!... baaaaahhhhh!

Go, join Sheikh Issah's flock.

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He didn't suffer torture, he experienced life as a college freshman, w/ out the binge drinking. BFD.

Bullshit. You morons on the right keep insisting that these are the hard-case terrorists, the toughest of the tough, and that there's no way they'll talk under normal circumstances. Now you want us to believe that a little light hazing is all it takes to crack them?

You're lying, or you're a fucking idiot, or both. Probably both, given your recent history here.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:57 PM

See ? You think as a sheep thinks. I don't join flocks. You do. Don't project your sheep thoughts onto me.

Flock you.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Sig You're a sheep. I will not live my life as a sheep.It's just that simple.
I think you're saying something, but all I hear is baaaah!.... baaahhh!... baaaaahhhhh!

Go, join Sheikh Issah's flock.

Ouch.

That was... completely called for. :)

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:59 PM

I'm clearly not lying, and I'm clearly superior to you.

You fail, twice.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:02 PM

MIKE

Quote:
I don't join flocks.

Did you notice the irony of a "ditto head" saying that he doesn't join flocks? *shakes head* Man, this guy's got some serious sh*t going on.

---------------------------------
They pit us like dogs against each other and rake it in. And I'll bet they laugh when they hear dupes like you defend the system that fucks you over and rewards them so nicely! But the one thing they'll stamp out in horror as if it were the spark of conflagration is any whiff of socialism. That should tell you something.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:02 PM

This is what Ms Liberty thinks of you pansy assholes for not protecting all that is good and right in the world and appeasing to Islamo terrorists.

RUE

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:03 PM

You think that denying facts, definitions and logic make you superior ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:05 PM

That's what you do, not I.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:05 PM

This is what Lady LIBERTY thinks of people who defend her in name only.
-------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This is what Lady Liberty thinks of you fascist assholes for not standing up for what is good and decent in the world, and for succumbing to your baser instincts and torturing and killing prisoners for your enjoyment. Saddam would be so proud of you; you've grown up just like him!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:08 PM

You're the fascist asshole, you dumb mother fucker.

RUE

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:09 PM

"That's what you do, not I."

So, if people are denied that basics of life - shelter, sleep, air - and are beaten enough to die - how do YOU define that ?

And - can you quote me the legal definition of torture ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm clearly not lying, and I'm clearly superior to you.

You fail, twice.

You clearly ARE lying, and you're clearly inferior to everyone here.

You fail, always.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're the fascist asshole, you dumb mother fucker.

Not me, bubba - YOU are the one who's so into torture that you want to change the inscription on the Statue of Liberty.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, so I can hook their genitals up to car batteries, drown them, beat them, and starve them. THEN they'll know how I REALLY defend 'freedom'."

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:18 PM

That has nothing even to do w/ fascism.

My god, you are a dumb as dirt moron.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:18 PM

Rappy, rappy. You're an embarassment to your right-wing compatriots here.

You screwed up. There WAS torture at Gitmo, according to USA officials: treatment which brought at least ONE person near the point of death. Don't compound your error by now claiming that this was "justice" and that we should have flayed him alive. All it does is make you look like a demented, pathetic coward and Shiekh Issa's butt-buddy. Isn't a whole lot simpler just to admit you were wrong? Stop digging, for crissake!

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:23 PM

Stop standing up for America, freedom and justice ?

Oh, never.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:26 PM

Interesting. I post this:

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're the fascist asshole, you dumb mother fucker.

Not me, bubba - YOU are the one who's so into torture that you want to change the inscription on the Statue of Liberty.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, so I can hook their genitals up to car batteries, drown them, beat them, and starve them. THEN they'll know how I REALLY defend 'freedom'."

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

...and your entire argument against it is this:

Quote:
Posted by Rappy:

That has nothing even to do w/ fascism.

So rather than be offended by me saying that you're into torture and want to deface the Statue of Liberty, you go to a defense of fascism...

Interesting take. Really.

It's like I called you a filthy scum-sucking turd-smoking lying pedophile degenerate gambler and litterbug, and your whole defense was, "I'm no litterbug..."

It tells me more about you than you might want it to!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Stop standing up for America, freedom and justice ?

Oh, never.

See? Rappy stands up for freedom by strapping THEM down!

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

So rather than be offended by me saying that you're into torture and want to deface the Statue of Liberty, you go to a defense of fascism...

Interesting take. Really.

It's like I called you a filthy scum-sucking turd-smoking lying pedophile degenerate gambler and litterbug, and your whole defense was, "I'm no litterbug..."

It tells me more about you than you might want it to!

Mike

It's funny that you'd think I'd dignify your lying sack of shit opinion w/ having to defend that which I don't support.

You tear 'do not remove under penalty of law' tags off of mattresses.

There. I said it.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:34 PM

Yeah! I'm gonna stand up for freedom and justice if I have to imprison and torture every mother-f*cking towel-head in order to do it!

Oy. The irony is really thick today. Gonna need a fog light and gas mask.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

KWICKO

Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

So rather than be offended by me saying that you're into torture and want to deface the Statue of Liberty, you go to a defense of fascism...

Interesting take. Really.

It's like I called you a filthy scum-sucking turd-smoking lying pedophile degenerate gambler and litterbug, and your whole defense was, "I'm no litterbug..."

It tells me more about you than you might want it to!

Mike

It's funny that you'd think I'd dignify your lying sack of shit opinion w/ having to defend that which I don't support.

It'd be funny if I thought you WOULDN'T dignify my opinion with a response, since you respond to pretty much everything else I write - unless you find it an uncomfortable question, that is.

Quote:

You tear 'do not remove under penalty of law' tags off of mattresses.

There. I said it.

Guilty. Don't torture me, bro!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:48 AM

Speaking of the effectiveness of interrogation.

One carefully worded post, just one, without physical proximity, without body language or personal intimidation, not even eye contact or tone of voice - and no benefit of set piece surroundings.

Just words, and few enough of them, on a screen.

And he cracks like a windshield hit by a rock.

Any questions ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:54 AM

Quote:
Any questions ?

Yeah:

HOW???

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:27 AM

Pyschology and experience, Miss.

Once you know where all the gears and levers are, it's not too hard to pull them, and against a groupthink collective, it's like a persian rug, if you can pull one string, you can pull em all.

Fanatics are actually easier to crack because they subconsciously know their belief is in some way unacceptable and unsustainable, and they try to cover the crack in their mental foundations by sheer rabidity with an aggressive, rather than defensive mental posture, unlike criminals which will stonewall you with a siege mentality.

But if you know that flaw is there, that weak point, and what it is, all of which the poor sodder handed right on over with his earnest public "belief" in a fallacy even he knew was untrue (we did not torture anyone) - completely unaware that this threw up two red flags and a bullseye to someone who knows how this stuff works...

Then you provide hard evidence from their own "trusted sources" and shatter the illusion, followed on and up with absolute scorn for holding such an obviously false position complete with personal condemnation, and then you step back, leave the room, withdraw temporarily, as their own efforts to patch the ever widening crack cause it to crumble all the faster.

And religious fanatics are actually the easiest nuts in the world to crack, and with the right subtle theological manipulation, will gleefully tell you EVERYTHING without even realising it.

And all it took was knowing which lever to yank to start the slide, and full awareness of how trying to justify himself TO himself would cause him to pyschologically implode like that.

Who the hell needs a waterboard when someone with even half a clue don't even need physical contact nor proximity ?

Going hands on is the surest sign of the utterly incompetent.

-Frem

PS. You wanna start a thread relative to this particular aspect of discussion, I may well change my mind about not discussing the mechanics after all.

RUE

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:34 AM

I figured it was this:

Posted by Frem -

Let's talk about those pesky Facts then, Rappy.

FINAL REPORT OF THE INDEP. PANEL TO REVIEW DOD DETENTION OPERATIONS
PAGE 13.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=7663
***************************************************************

And this response:

Posted by Rap-

Frem,

Nice try at spinning the evidence.

I said there was no torture at GITMO, and there was none.

But thanks for playing. Now SHUT THE FUCK UP, ASSHOLE.

***************************************************************

And all pretense of being an even partially rational debater drops away.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:48 AM

Yeah, pretty much removing the central card of the little house, and then stepping back to let it collapse on it's own while observing discretely.

Bit like dominos, too, really.

-F

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yeah, pretty much removing the central card of the little house, and then stepping back to let it collapse on it's own while observing discretely.

Bit like dominos, too, really.

-F

Only in your eyes.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the Islamo nuts who committed the 9/11 attacks, this ' tortured ' individual wanted to be among them. He wanted in on the slaughter of nearly 3000 people in New York City, that fine Sept morning. And you people are fussing over him not getting a full night's sleep ?

There are no words. General George Patton would be justified in smacking your whiny asses upside the head for being such unbelievable panty waist.

RUE

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:20 PM

"... smacking your whiny asses upside the head for being such unbelievable panty waist."

And on top of everything else, Rap has anatomical confusion.

***************************************************************

NO NO! Rap! Food doesn't go in THERE !

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:41 PM

Quote:
He wanted in on the slaughter of nearly 3000 people in New York City, that fine Sept morning. ?

And you want to genocide every Muslim in the world. So???

Quote:
And you people are fussing over him not getting a full night's sleep

Except that's not what happened, and you're in your usual "denial of fact" mode. Grow up, son. Take moral and intellectual responsibility for yourself if such a thing is possible with you.

Quote:
There are no words.

Nonetheless, you keep babbling...

Quote:
General George Patton

A known pyschopath

Quote:
would be justified in smacking your whiny asses upside the head for being such unbelievable panty waist.

Is this a a joke? It MUST be a joke. If it is, it's very funny.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:47 PM

Quote:
And you want to genocide every Muslim in the world. So???

Sig, as usual, you lie about my position, which makes it easier for you to vilify me. It's what you do, when you have a weak position from which to base YOUR views. I have never once suggested, intimated, in ANY form, manner, or semblance, the extermination of ALL Muslims. I have, in all honesty, voiced my opinion that I find it odd how the Islam "street " remains so silent, barely voicing any disapproval for the terrorism done in Allah's name. Note the true irony, if you will, how I never remotely claim to hold any such sentiment, yet you accuse me of wanting to "genocide" all Muslims, while Muslims themselves have repeatedly and even put in WRITING their very strong belief and intent to wipe Israel off the map.

And where is the 'outrage', where is the indignation over those views to 'genocide' an entire people ?

Hmmmm.... crickets.

1 incident of sleep deprivation and a chilly floor does not a POLICY of torture make. Sorry.

Torture - things we had better not be doing, under any circumstances, to detainees who refuse to cooperate and answer questions.

Beat
Burn
Shock
Slice
Stab
Insert things into the body.
Kick
Amputate ....

( are we getting the picture here folks ? )

There's nothing to indicate that the U.S. , as a routine or accepted method, does any of the above. If there's an exception, and a crime is committed, then punish who ever did it. Give 'em a fair hearing ( not the terrorist, those who interrogate over the line ) and punish or clear, as the evidence suggests.

What the FAR Left here on this board, the media and in Gov't do is confuse the issue by mixing in acts which are by no means, what so ever " torture ". They then accuse those who have pledged to protect this country w/ totally unfounded and fabricated crimes.

And the REASON for doing this? Simple. To marginalize and attack anyone who doesn't agree w/ them.

Also, for those who don't know - FASCISM, (once again ) isn't a synonym for things the Left lies about and accuses the Right of being. It means the control of private business by Gov't. This is exactly what is happening , under Obama, with our banks, our auto industry, and soon, our health care. Fascism has, as it's primary definition, nothing to do w/ torture.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:54 PM

Rappy- I will quote your views on pre-emptively kiling children if that hepls refresh your memory.

Quote:
1 incident of sleep deprivation and a chilly floor does not a POLICY of torture make. Sorry.

Not what happend. Sorry. And the point still stands that "wanting" something is not a crime. Plotting, conspiring, threatening... could be crimes. "Wanting?" Not so much.

Beat
Burn
Shock
Slice
Stab
Insert things into the body.
Kick
Amputate ....
And YOUR defintion of "torture" simply has not kept up with the times! The kinds of procedures that YOU define as torture have a significant drawback- they leave marks. But I cna kill you, or make you long for death, without leaving a mark.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
1 incident of sleep deprivation and a chilly floor does not a POLICY of torture make. Sorry.
Not what happend. Sorry.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

That's exactly what happened.

And that you side w/ the terrorists who committed the acts of 9/11 is beyond unconscionable.

Glad I'll never have to live w/ that on my mind. You own them an apology. ----

Victims of 9/11/01

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 5:20 PM

There are enough events over the last decade to make it un-necessary to have to invent political hypotheticals, particularly ones that generate irrational hatred from both camps.
I do not understand the rationale for even posting a thread like this. One would imagine that continuing to hold up Bush as some sort of measuring stick for Obama is a self-defeating and useless activity, only designed to irritate and bring out the worst in others. Constanly looking to the past, constantly justifying the unjustifyable in an attempt to create some sort of cheery legacy is psychotic and very sad. Both Bush haters and Bush admirers have to move past the past.
On paper, I could easily be a screaming hater against Obama like some out there, but guess what...despite the daily barrage of what they call Obama blunders, or Obama dangers to the country, my toes are still tappin'. Life is still very good, and for some reason I do not feel any less safe in my life than I did 100 days ago. Imagine that! Sorry.

OPPYH

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 5:42 PM

Relax, everyone.

With the apocalypse imminent in the next few years you should go outside, take a breath of fresh air, walk your dog. Enjoy nature.

Life's too short(like 3 years left...maybe less) to concern ourselves with politics. Do you drink beer? If not, now would be a good time to start.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 6:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Relax, everyone.

Do you drink beer? If not, now would be a good time to start.

I use to. Was quite the connoisseur of beer too. But I've lost the taste for it. All interest in beer, wine, liquor.... just not anything I care for any more. I guess I drank enough already, and I don't need any more. Weird, I know.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:23 PM

Quote:
That's exactly what happend

Cites please? Because according to the GOVERNMENT PROSECUTOR that's NOT what happened. So I suppose you were there, or you knew someone who was there, right? Someone with better information than the person who reveiwed the case?

Quote:
And that you side w/ the terrorists who committed the acts of 9/11 is beyond unconscionable.

First of all, this person didn't "commit" anything, apparently. Secondly, I'm not siding "with the terrorists" I'm siding with "the rule of law"- a concept you seemly to be woefully ignorant of!

What good do rights and liberties do if you only apply them to people you agree with? Following the law willy-nilly is the same as TYRANNY... that's what the FF fought against. Even the most heinous of criminals deserves the right to habeas corpus, a trial, and a conviction BEFORE punishment. But thanks to your buds in the WH, now that this guy was tortured he can't be prosecuted. The person who should be apologizing to the 9-11 victims is you, because you make a mockery of everything thia nation is supposed to be founded on, and to stand for.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:52 PM

This from a guy who claimed he was beaten every day, called al Jizeerah, and was released by an activist judge who woulnd't allow us to retry the terrorist because of the alleged beatings.

Cry me a damn river.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:06 PM

We seem to tbe talking about two different people. OTOH, not sure that it matters 'cause you have no case: No cites, no facts, no laws, no ethics... nothing to back you up except your blind fear and hatred.

You should be ashamed. People fought and died for freedom... rule of law... rights... and you'd flush the Constitution and all of that sacrifice like so much toilet paper. You can't muster up even a FRACTION of their courage to defend FREEDOM. I wouldn't waste a single tear on YOU. But I would for THEM and their wasted effort.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

KWICKO

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:42 PM

Quote:
Give 'em a fair hearing ( not the terrorist, those who interrogate over the line ) and punish or clear, as the evidence suggests.

So, for the record, you're against giving terrorists - or at least "THE terrorist", whichever one that is - a fair hearing?

And I guess "over the line" means whatever YOU say it means, right? Because report after report, from our government, the Red Cross, Amnesty International, and now even the government of Spain, has concluded that THE UNITED STATES COMMITTED ACTS OF TORTURE! You're one of the very few who are insisting that no such thing happened - but of course you have the distinct advantage of having access to none of the official reports, so you've got that going for you...

Quote:

What the FAR Left here on this board, the media and in Gov't do is confuse the issue by mixing in acts which are by no means, what so ever " torture ". They then accuse those who have pledged to protect this country w/ totally unfounded and fabricated crimes.

Apparently here, in the government, in the Red Cross, Amnesty International, and even the government of Spain...

By the way, the law the Spanish are using to go after Bush officials? It's the same one that allowed US to go after the son of Charles Taylor, for the crime of... (wait for it)... TORTURE!

You guys on the right keep some great company, eh?

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:47 PM

Quote:

And that you side w/ the terrorists who committed the acts of 9/11 is beyond unconscionable.

Glad I'll never have to live w/ that on my mind. You own them an apology. ----

And that YOU side with the Nazis who committed the acts of the Holocaust is beyond unconscionable.

Glad I'll never have to live with that on my mind. You owe the entire world an apology.

- Hey, if you can equate opposing torture to siding with Al Qaeda, I can equate your happy endorsement of torture to siding with the Nazis. It's equally as valid a comparison.

And THAT is why you are a fascist!

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

KWICKO

Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Also, for those who don't know - FASCISM, (once again ) isn't a synonym for things the Left lies about and accuses the Right of being. It means the control of private business by Gov't.

It also means control of the government by private business - something the Bush White House was wholeheartedly in support of.

From the Wiki:

Quote:

Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.

So is GOP-brand republicanism.

Quote:
Fascism is also a corporatist economic ideology.

Again, as backed by the GOP.

Quote:
Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.

Also known as Karl Rove's "permanent majority". Remember that? Wouldn't that be a single-party state?

Quote:
Fascists believe that nations and races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in combat against the weak.

Or the nearest "terrorist" threat, or any other "imminent threat" that you can gin up in a pinch.

Quote:
Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.

And if you don't like it, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE COUNTRY!!!

Sound familiar?

Quote:
Fascism opposes class conflict and blames capitalist liberal democracies for creating class conflict and in turn blames communists for exploiting class conflict.

Okay, you get a pass on that one. Republicans LOVE class conflict - they've been putting the lower and middle classes in conflict with the upper class for years. Or, as Bush defined his base, "the haves and the have-mores".

Quote:
Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II and the publicity surrounding the atrocities committed during the period of fascist governments, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word.

So when I refer to you and your kind as "fascists", you can best believe that I know what I'm saying, and that I mean it when I say it. You, my lost and misbegotten child, are the textbook example of a fascist.

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.