Real World Event Discussions
450 posts IS a worse crime than wanting to kill us .
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Friday, May 22, 2009 14:59
VIEWED: 29463
PAGE 20 of 46
Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
No...I'm saying we chose waterboarding over extinguishing the Arab race in nuclear fire. A choice they would not have made given the means and opportunity.
You know that for a fact, do ya? The "Arab race" aleady has nuclear weapons. Pakistan has them. Last time I checked, we were calling them an "ally" of ours. Odd that they haven't tried to extinguish "the American race" in a hell of nuclear fire, as you insist they would if they could.
I note for the record that 99% if the Pakistani people are of the Indo-Iranian ethnic group. Arabs comprise a few thousand, mostly refugees, of the world's sixth most heavily populated nation.
Quote:
And now you've lowered the bar even more. Where once America sought to be the Light of the World, the shining mansion on the hill, the beacon of hope in a world of darkness... Now you're hoping that "we're better than most terrorists" is a catchy new motto. "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free..."
Wow, you make America suck. You should be ashamed, and if you had any real decency, you'd commit ritual suicide for the dishonor you've brought to your country in its time of need.
"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace." 1864, General Sherman's letter to the Mayor and City Coucil of Atlanta regarding his intent to burn the City.
http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/sherman/sherman-to-burn-atlanta.html
I would suggest that America does not suck because of what was done or what will be done in her defense...I believe your argument is not with me or President Bush or General Sherman...it is with War. This what War is, these are the things War requires of us. War is mankind at its best and mankind at its worst. We know this, we understand this, and knowing and understanding mean we would not and must not bring such terrible conflict upon another people unless the failure to act would bring about that one thing which is worse then War...Defeat.
"But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter."
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:08 PM
Quote:
we would not and must not bring such terrible conflict upon another people unless the failure to act would bring about that one thing which is worse then War...Defeat.
Poppycock. How was it that Iraq was going to defeat us, then? Why did we have to "bring such terrible conflict upon another people"?
Quote:
I note for the record that 99% if the Pakistani people are of the Indo-Iranian ethnic group. Arabs comprise a few thousand, mostly refugees, of the world's sixth most heavily populated nation.
So, who are "the Arab race" that you speak of? I think you're confusing nationality, religion, and race again. Are we at war with the Saudis? Aren't they "Arabs", being from Saudi Arabia and all? And weren't they the largest single group represented by the 9/11 hijackers?
Who do you mean when you say "the Arab race" wants to annihilate us? Muslims? Saudis? Some unspecified brownish people to be named later? Whomever we feel like torturing today? Whomever isn't voting our way in the U.N.? Who?
By the way, did you just use Sherman's sacking of Atlanta to illustrate our mercy and patriotism? AuRaptor will be so proud of you! Maybe next time you can show us how Hitler actually loved the Jews, and was just hiding them in the ovens until the war was over!
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Poppycock. How was it that Iraq was going to defeat us, then? Why did we have to "bring such terrible conflict upon another people"?
That is a good question and one we have been discussing here for years. I argued then and now that there was ample cause for war. I argued then and now that Iraq was acting against its own agreements to end the 1990-91 Gulf conflict, that it was engaged in a WMD program (which was later revealed to be a fraud), that it actively undermined American alliances and the United Nations with the largest bribery scheme in human history, that it was regularly attacking British and American planes, and that it was aiding and comforting terrorist and terrorist organizations. I argue now that Iraq was also engaged in the systematic torture and murder of hundreds of thousands of its own citizens.
Quote:Quote:
I note for the record that 99% if the Pakistani people are of the Indo-Iranian ethnic group. Arabs comprise a few thousand, mostly refugees, of the world's sixth most heavily populated nation.
So, who are "the Arab race" that you speak of? I think you're confusing nationality, religion, and race again. Are we at war with the Saudis? Aren't they "Arabs", being from Saudi Arabia and all? And weren't they the largest single group represented by the 9/11 hijackers?
By "arab" I meant "arab". I didn't mean Pakistani, I didn't mean Nigerian, I didn't mean Turk. Arabs are arabs, not Iranians, not Mongols, not those nice Muslim folks in Indonesia.
Apparently all those folks look the same to you. Me, I can tell the difference between and Arab and a Seikh and a Berber (and sometimes that difference is a barber).
Quote:
By the way, did you just use Sherman's sacking of Atlanta to illustrate our mercy and patriotism?
Actually I used it because the man was attempting to explain the concept of total war to a bunch of civilians who where begging for mercy. His point was neither about mercy or patriotism (it bothers me still, I being a son of the south). His point was about the American concept of war and peace.
Using Japan as an example...war with America resulted in total destruction and irradiated ruins...peace with America resulted in transformation to a modern and prosperous nation...an equal partner in both trdae and international relations.
In this new modern age we make war on the terrorists...not just their camps and strongholds, upon their ideas, their idealogy, their very souls. We find them and try to kill them. If we wound them we treat their wounds. Once captured and healthy...they must submit to us. That means telling us everything. If they resist they are in effect continuing to fight...in a different form. We then must break down that resistance by reasonable means. If they choose to make their will the battlefield then we will use the tools at our disposal to defeat them...leaving their souls irradiated and ruined. But...should they choose to end the conflict...then we shall be their greatest friend and ally.
I note that civilized nations have agreed by treaty not to engage in the abuse of prisoners. It is a mutual agreement, one made so as to protect their own soldiers from the abuse of others. Terrorists regularly abuse and horrifically murder their prisoners. By all rights of war we could and some argue should do the same thing. We choose not to.
It has been argued that the standard "we are not as bad as the terrorists" is too low. I note for the record that it is much better to hear such a motto spoken by the living then to see "we could have done more" etched on the tombstones of the dead.
If waterboarding a prisoner could have stopped 9/11 would it have been worthwhile? I suspect millions of Americans and hundreds of millions of persons (including most Arabs, even many of those who at that point considered America in a negative fashion,) would agree. I suspect there would be overwhelming agreement on that subject. Course that'
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:55 PM
Quote:Details, please.
Originally posted by Hero:
We used those methods, we stopped a major attack
I could say that I myself stopped a major attack- that doesn't make it so.
So, details, please.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Details, please.
Originally posted by Hero:
We used those methods, we stopped a major attack
Please refer your question to President Obama.
He started this by releasing selected memo's making the Republicans look bad. It backfired.
Until then you'll need to be satisfied with everybody who says it happened.
I note for the record that the official response from Obama has not been to deny the additional memo's existence or the truth being asserted by Dick Cheney and all those who came out saying the same thing. Instead they don't want to release them. If they don't exist...they'd say that...if they don't say what's been asserted they'd have released them. Now they're just hoping it will all go away.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:08 PM
ChrisIsAll
It's just the same time-traveling stuff they've been harping on - you know the 2002 attack that was stopped in 2003. They keep missing the BIG PICTURE - somebody perfected time travel !
***************************************************************
Now THAT'S awesome.
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:15 PM
Quote:You can't make me be satisfied with it.
Originally posted by Hero:
Until then you'll need to be satisfied with everybody who says it happened.
Maybe hearsay stands up in YOUR court, sir....
The laughing Chrisisall
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 8:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
It has been argued that the standard "we are not as bad as the terrorists" is too low. I note for the record that it is much better to hear such a motto spoken by the living then to see "we could have done more" etched on the tombstones of the dead.
Anything that keeps you alive is worth it, eh? You have no values you'd treasure, aside from might makes right and enjoying the fantasy of completely erradicating what gives you trouble, like a bullied child?
I swear, this post of yours sounded like a masturbation fantasy. A creepy one. With Biblical themes about complete submission to the all powerful God, and complete annihilation in case of rebellion. And a complete lack of accountability to any rules at all, because You Are All Powerful. Very old testament. Very Job.
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:15 PM
Quote:
Until then you'll need to be satisfied with everybody who says it happened.
Aren't they the same ones who said Saddam had WMD, though? And by your own admission, that was a fraud. How many times do you think we'll let you try to pull the wool over our eyes?
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
It has been argued that the standard "we are not as bad as the terrorists" is too low. I note for the record that it is much better to hear such a motto spoken by the living then to see "we could have done more" etched on the tombstones of the dead.
Anything that keeps you alive is worth it, eh? You have no values you'd treasure, aside from might makes right and enjoying the fantasy of completely erradicating what gives you trouble, like a bullied child?
I swear, this post of yours sounded like a masturbation fantasy. A creepy one. With Biblical themes about complete submission to the all powerful God, and complete annihilation in case of rebellion. And a complete lack of accountability to any rules at all, because You Are All Powerful. Very old testament. Very Job.
Yes indeed. And I note that Hero's love of humanity and desire to save us all from the Big Bad Evil tends to end right where our "liberal" beliefs begin; he'll GLADLY sacrifice anyone who doesn't agree with him. How very christian of him.
I also notice how he utterly fails to identify "the Arab race" he keeps referring to. Anyone who doesn't like the U.S. is his version of "Arab", I guess. But he can tell a "Seikh" from a Berber. Whatever a Seikh is...
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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