Breaking news - Obama admin will NOT press charges of 'TORTURE' on CIA agents.
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Thursday, April 23, 2009 21:59
VIEWED: 6042
PAGE 6 of 15
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:OOoooo, I detect a little "caring" in there....
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hey dickhead, I said ANY proof.
The laughing Chrisisall
But still no proof. As usual.
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Quote:What YOU said was
There was nothing remotely 'fact free' about my statement.
Quote:What YOU said was- Obama will continue to treat terrorists the same as Bush. That's not true- No, he will not. He let CIA officers off the hook for PAST actions, but has changed the policy on FUTURE actions. Please don't go making more fact-free statements trying to convince people that you didn't say what you QUITE CLEARLY said. Or... yeah, what the hell. Go ahead and tell us all how you didn't really mean what you said!
What's to like ? There's a REASON why he's carrying on , just like Bush, on this matter. While Mr Obamarrific has no problems making SWEEPING changes in most other areas of Government, he's sorta changed his tune on such matters on how to treat terrorist. Sure, we might not call them that any more, but we'll sure TREAT them the same. ... I'd say why doesn't that give YOU pause to think on for a while ? So many across the board changes, in all areas, yet THIS one remains the same?
Quote:So we went into Iraq because Saddam was a tyrant? That's news to me! 'Cause I thought Bush's' rationale was that Iraq was an "imminent threat" to our security. Too bad neither he nor you could wait to find out if that was really the case! Too bad that we had so many people killed, spent so much money, and destabilized a nation (and prolly created a failed state) for an imminent threat that didn't exist! But, your cause was noble!
We gathered 10 yrs of WMD facts, along w/broken promises, failed agreements, and a host of mass graves and REAL torture rooms run by Saddam. Iraq , for so many reasons, was a noble cause.
Quote:Rapo, there you go again! How do you explain that the British real estate market ... which BTW Dodd and Frank had no power over, being out-of-power Dems in the Republican-dominated USA political system- ALSO collapsed? And that this contagion spread across the whole world? Oh, that's right... you don't. It's all about Dodd and Frank! In YOUR mind the whole world revolves around them! In fact, I think YOU revolve around them!
No one, save for Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Rahm Emanuel was 'cheering ' the economy over a cliff.
Quote:The Right was??? Until YOU offer me "proof" that DHS is targeting conservatives for political reasons, I won't even bother to respond. I want NAMES. I want organizations. I want to see HOW they're being "spied on" and HOW they're being interfered with. "Cause so far, all you have is a memo saying that DHS should be alert to "extremists", and as far as I can tell NOTHING has actually happened yet. So far, it's only in your paranoid imagination that millions of conservatives are actually being spied on.
Yes, I'm absolutely stating that, until you offer any proof, or any Dept. fo Homeland Security type memos which targeted LEFT wing 'radicals' as the Right was , then you have nothing but your irrational fear paranoia and hatred for Bush on your side.
Quote:No, not "others", rapo. You. Only you.
talk about others being 'fact free' ??
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:Dude, I require PAY for work that's not appreciated.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
But still no proof. As usual.
The laughing Chrisisall
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So rappy, now that you've doubled back on yourself in this thread, are ya gonna slink away?
Not like THAT'S ever happened before!
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Waterboarding, while reprehensible, was considered legal under, and sanctioned by, Bush and his administration. So, to go after these folks who did the actual boarding inevitably means also prosecuting way up the chain (as their attorneys will no doubt say their actions were approved by the brass). And I rightfully think that's not feasible; not politically, at least. So, the gnashing of my teeth despite, seems you Republicans got a few freebies. Enjoy them: the world is entirely more vigilent to your shenanigans, come next round.
The problem with this discussion and this issue is that you folks, on both sides, are confusing the ethical/moral question with the legal question.
Legally, what was done was not torture, or if it was...it was NOT illegal. Thus there can be no charges for criminal wrongdoing by anyone at any level for these acts.
These acts also created ethical/moral problems on which people can reasonably disagree. Some people see this as ok, and they could be right. Some see it as wrong...and they could be right. I think they are both right...these things are morally wrong, but could be necessary under the circumstances in these cases.
If a person has intellegence which could be used to stop future attacks and save lives then I believe we should secure their cooperation by any reasonable means. What is reasonable? Discomfort...yes, waterboarding...maybe, genital electrocution...no (except PirateNews, Osama, and anyone who has sex with OctoMom).
This problem is easily remedied. Just outlaw this sort of stuff. Make it absolutely illegal to torture, waterboard, etc. Then, as soon as the cameras are off sign a stack of undated pardon forms to slip under the interrogators office door.
In other words...make it illegal, immoral, unethical, etc...but still allow the folks to do what they gotta do to get what we need...a solution that has the added benefit of being entirely keeping with the express powers of the Constitution.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:Yep. Bush tried to mess with tradition.
Originally posted by Hero:
make it illegal, immoral, unethical, etc...but still allow the folks to do what they gotta do to get what we need...a solution that has the added benefit of being entirely keeping with the express powers of the Constitution.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Hello,
I do not buy into arguments by Obama detractors/Bush supporters that this action proves that Torture wasn't Torture.
I do not buy into arguments by a myriad of confused souls that this action proves that there is no difference between Bush and Obama.
What I do buy is that this action is a promise to future lawbreakers that it's okay to break the law and violate basic human rights, so long as you are under orders to do so.
The Nuremberg trials were meant to establish the opposite premise - that saying 'I was under orders' is NOT a defense to misconduct. But apparently such precedents are now passe'.
This is the second time (in my opinion) that Obama has failed to do something that he SHOULD be doing. I am not particularly angry at the man when he talks about an Assault Weapons Ban, because I understood that his thinking was flawed in that regard. It was an evil I accepted when I cast my vote for the 'lesser evil.'
What sits bitterly in my mouth is when Obama fails to do something that his own morality should compel him to do. Democrats, Liberals, these are the people I rely on to preserve MOST of the Bill of Rights. Save that niggling Second Amendment.
But Obama let the telecommunication spying go unanswered, and now he's let torture go unanswered.
No, he does not earn guilt for Bush's actions when he makes this misstep. Rather, he earns guilt for all future violators. Because now he has broadcast the message, "Whatever your Chief says is okay. Do not hesitate in the performance of your duty."
Which is, like, the opposite of what I envision the American ideal to be.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Meanwhile, rappy has decided that since he scorched himself with his own lack of facts and simple logic, he's gonna scurry away..
Nice going, dooood! buh bye!
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Hello,
I don't post here often (or ever, for that matter) but this caught my eye:
"Yes, I'm absolutely stating that, until you offer any proof, or any Dept. fo Homeland Security type memos which targeted LEFT wing 'radicals' as the Right was , then you have nothing but your irrational fear paranoia and hatred for Bush on your side. Of which, I care NOTHING."
From FOXnews' website (Not my favorite source of news, but I suppose one must at times hop the gutter to cross the street):
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Leftwing_Extremist_Threat.pdf
The report itself was released on the 26th of January after Obama took office, but I can only summise that the research which went into it (as well as the development of the "Leftwing Extremist" category) was conducted during the Bush administration. I'll leave further comments for the rest of you and disappear back into the murky depths of the internet. (And please excuse this detour from the thread's intended topic).
Cheers!
-Dreamingbeggar
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Sig
Terrorist still at Gitmo. No CIA agents are being charged for 'torture' crimes. Trust me, those guys will be treated exactly the same. Why ? Because they weren't MIStreated in the 1st place.
Yes, the domino effect carried over the world. Still, that's not what you said. You said folks were CHEERING this economy over a cliff. Never happened. Unless you mean by some on this board, who claimed it'll soon be like 1929 !!
Bush never said 'imminent threat', but keep lying, all god dman day long. I'm use to it. And I've about fucking had it w/ your " why did we go into Iraq ?" bullshit. No question in the history of human civilization has been asked, and answered more than that one question. MOVE THE HELL ON!!!
Barney Frank and Chris Dodd DID have power, and you need to take a refresher course in Civics, 101.
The D.H.S.'s memo that's been all over the news this week, hon. Google it, if you're really that dense.
You're the one who is fact free. I'm all facts, all the time. You just hate pretty much everything good, right, pure , free and decent. You're the ultimate USEFUL IDIOT!
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