Sorry, why is whether Obama bowed to the Saudi King an issue again?
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, May 22, 2017 08:37
VIEWED: 24967
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Since people are making such a big deal about a 'bow' (which I saw as a loss of balance as Obama was leaning forward), it would seem they should be equally appalled about a kiss - ANY kiss - but especially an obviously intentional one that can't be written off as a stumble -- between the PRESIDENT and a foreign leader. Whether you accept one photograph or another of Bush kissing Prince Abdullah, either way - he kissed the guy.
In fact, they should be equally appalled at Bush's other bizarre behavior as PRESIDENT. Bush groping Merkel comes to mind. Or, if bowing is such a deep issue, they should be appalled by ANY bow Bush made, such as the one he made to the Pope.
The issue isn't the picture, it's the kisses (there were more than one), the bows, the gope.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So Bush has NEVER kissed Crown Prince Abdullah ?
Yes or No.
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Silence is consent.
Rue,
The question is more aptly phrased, "So Bush has NEVER kissed Crown Prince Abdullah on the lips as depicted in the photo?"
And the answer is probably no.
It's okay to be wrong about something. I'm often wrong. You're still a great gal with amazing insight and often well-researched arguments.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
I think Anthony's got it right on this one. I, too, thought the Bush picture was real. Now I'm definitely leaning towards it being a fake.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Hello Rue,
I understand your position, but if the picture is not the issue, then the issue should not include the picture. The picture you used to make your point (a forgery) undermines the point you were trying to make.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Auraptor,
"Since a bow is seen by most modern cultures as a subservient gesture..."
This premise is incorrect. A bow is as often a sign of respect as it is a subservient gesture. Peers bow to each other in many modern cultures. That is, equals bow to one another in a show of mutual respect.
Do you believe that Obama was demonstrating his subservience to a foreign head of state?
If you believe that, I can see you becoming alarmed.
However, I do not agree with this interpretation. I am much more inclined to believe he was making a gesture of respect. It is possible that this gesture was a breach of protocol, but I see no insidiousness in it.
--Anthony
Again, I think Anthony's on the right track.
I don't really care whether or not Obama "bowed" - or what it might signify if he did (respect? subservience? fear? hatred? worshipfulness? A mistaken belief that Abdullah was Korean, or Japanese?)
What I find disturbing is that AuRaptor, while maintaining that there is absolutely NOTHING we know about Obama, then also maintains that HE KNOWS what Obama's intentions and motivations are. "CLEARLY" this and "HAD TO" that. It smacks of a PirateNews post, with everything except the allegations that Obama is meeting Abdullah at Bohemian Grove later this week to dance naked around the chained male sex slaves.
In other words, Rappo has become what Hero would refer to as a "crazy talker".
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Hello,
To put it another way, if Auraptor was to post a forged picture of Obama on his hands and knees, pressing his lips to the Saudi King's shoe, it would undermine his point as well.
Even if he then claimed, "The point is that he bowed. Did he bow, yes or no?" I'd have problems with it. I'd tell him, as I tell you, "No, not like he did in the picture."
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Bush had been described by reputable news sources as having kissed Crown Prince Abdullah and then going for a walk hand in hand:
"Plenty of eyebrows were raised by the body language Monday between President Bush and the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah. When the crown prince arrived, half an hour late, Mr. Bush greeted him with what the Associated Press described as "a warm embrace and a kiss on both cheeks." Then the pair were photographed holding hands while walking through a field of bluebonnets."
So the objection that the only kiss that happened was indoors is without a doubt invalid.
Further, there are other orginal news source pictures showing Bush kissing other ME leaders in the exact same fashion as depicted in the photograph
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/11/world/main3699072.shtml?sour
ce=RSSattr=HOME_3699072
In addition, there are several photographs showing them very close (face to face) - 
AND FINALLY - IT'S ABOUT THE KISSES, not the photo.
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"To put it another way, if Auraptor was to post a forged picture of Obama on his hands and knees, pressing his lips to the Saudi King's shoe, it would undermine his point as well."
But if he were to find NEWS reports ABOUT Obama doing that, if he were to find other pictures of Obama doing the exact same thing - wouldn't you find it convincing for him to say - Obama does that ?
I would.
Any other conclusion is petty bias.
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Hello Rue,
It was about the kisses. But then you clung to a photoshop forgery and posted in its defense.
Now it's all about the forged photo.
Try presenting five pieces of evidence at a homicide trial.
Then have the defense reveal that one of the pieces of evidence was planted by the police.
The trial is now no longer about a homicide. It's now about police corruption. The murderer goes free.
This isn't theory. This is history.
Own it, before it owns you.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"To put it another way, if Auraptor was to post a forged picture of Obama on his hands and knees, pressing his lips to the Saudi King's shoe, it would undermine his point as well."
But if he were to find NEWS reports ABOUT Obama doing that, if he were to find other pictures of Obama doing the exact same thing - wouldn't you find it convincing for him to say - Obama does that ?
I would.
Any other conclusion is petty bias.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
Hello,
I have not found any evidence to support that Bush lip-locked the Saudi Prince. So no, there is no supporting anything for that forged photo.
Someone took a photo of one thing that did happen - Bush kissed prince on cheeks - and turned it into something that didn't happen - Bush osculated the Prince on lips.
They did this to evoke a sense of disgust in puritan minded Americans. We don't do that, and we certainly don't want our presidents doing that.
But kiss on the cheeks? Hell, my parents were Cuban. Kisses on cheeks are like handshakes in my culture. Try kissing a dude on the mouth, though, and you'll get a collective gasp of disbelief and disgust.
Just as you might if Obama bent over and tongued the King's dockers.
Neither of these things happened. There are no news reports supporting the picture provided. The picture is a forgery, and this would have blown over pages ago in the wake of a, "Ooops. Looks like that picture is a fake. Sorry guys, Bush only ever kissed the guy on the cheeks."
Then you could go on to say, "Not that location is the issue, of course. The issue is these gestures of respect made by former presidents to honor foreign cultures. They invoked no horror then, why now?"
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Meanwhile, AU laughs at how easy it was to stir up trouble over nothing... he's backwoods cagey! 
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