Violence as Deterrent
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Saturday, October 4, 2025 00:35
VIEWED: 6613
PAGE 8 of 12
United States 90.0 2007
Yemen 61.0 2007
Switzerland 46.0 2007
Iraq 39.0 2007
Serbia 37.5 2007
France 32.0 2007
Finland[5] 32.0 2008
Canada 31.5 2007
Sweden 31.5 2007
Austria 31.0 2007
Germany 30.0 2007
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Siggy, not to mention it's so often and heavily distorted getting any meaning out of it is next to impossible, cause both sides spin and cherrypick to such a degree it loses all meaning.
But like I said, we got deeper problems than that.
Way I see it, the only net effect of trying to remove them would be leaving folk even more defenseless against the barbarians our social, economic, and educational systems seem bent on creating by the dozens every day.
And depending on them for a solution is every bit as idiotic, even in the logistical sense cause even if you HAD enough weapons and ammo to shoot the "bad guys" - all you're gonna wind up with that way is an ever mounting pile of corpses which just multiplies by spreading the ire to their friends, family and aquaintences who will retaliate back and forth and all you're doing is spinning your wheels accomplishing not a damn thing while the body count rises - kinda like we're doing in a Iraq.
Now one on one, in a personal defense situation, sure, I can see and even advocate the use - but as an en-masse social solution ?
The very idea is pre-posterous, innit ?
The solution lies in not creating barbarians in the first place, and subverting them before they calcify - if you look at the backgrounds of these folk the causes are so clear it's painful, but the things that *cause* these problems are a codified and honored part of our social traditions, and somehow considered "good" despite how obviously, blatantly damaging they are.
So you have kind of the entire society that's whining about the end result of these folk, striving AS HARD AS THEY CAN to create them en-masse at the other, and worse, fighting tooth and claw against folk like me to do it!
As long as our society idealises and venerates sociopathy, and teaches a learned form of it as a necessary survival mechanism in the public education system, then allows it to calcify to the point where it becomes indistinguishable from an original neural misfire, there's just no hope of improvement.
Guns have not a damned thing to do with it and never did - but I know that when I come face to face with one of these monsters our society has intentionally, willfully and gleefully created, all the while decrying the very destruction they cause and claiming it's because they weren't brutal ENOUGH to them as children...
I damn sure want close to hand the only real argument they're capable of comprehending anymore.
WHO IS THE SERIOUS, VIOLENT, HABITUAL OFFENDER?
http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/lifestyle.html
He simply does not feel anyone's pain but his own. This is a learned response. People are not born like this.
The second characteristic is lack of perception of the future. He has none. If you ask a kid like this, "What are you going to be doing next year?" you will get an absolutely blank stare. Not because he's stupid, but because he simply cannot conceptualize such a distance from right now.
See, that's all they know...
Right. Now.
The possibility of arrest, incarceration, future sentencing, none of that means a damn thing to them, nada - even less than nothing because in their worldview, which is all too often correct, though I'll be damned as a heretic for admitting that, our justice system is even more of a gamble than a roulette wheel, so why worry about it ?
But the deep dark hole of a pistol aimed at them about to punch a hole through some vital part of THEM, oh yes, they understand that - because that's Right-Here-Right-Now, that's imminent and immediate threat of harm or death, the only language they're *capable* of understanding anymore.
And it annoys the ever living hell out of me that we as a society allow it to come to that when there are so MANY chances before that point to make it not happen at all - but all are rejected in favor of the idiotic social "wisdom" which created the situation in the first place, which CLEARLY DOES NOT WORK.
We built every one of these monsters, piece by piece, full and complete - every one of us who's ever contibuted
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Cause I just can't NOT do it...
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Hey Frem,
something I've been meaning to ask you.
I'm always very disturbed (in a thought-provoked sense) by your diatribes against how children are 'dehumanised' and by society, by how we create monsters, and while I certainly don't plan on disagreeing that there are things going very wrong, I'm always very fuzzy on what you would consider right, in a concrete and specific way. I'm really not asking to be snarky, but because I've been wondering. You're always sort of vague, with terms like "children are people" and "don't treat children like property", but I doubt most people set out to treat their children as objects on purpose.
What, specifically, do you feel parents should do better, and are there really so few who do it right?
Could we maybe start a new thread about this? Since it's obviously somewhat OT here.
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ALSO:
Quote:www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/25/cnnheroes.carnell.cooper/index.html
Cooper created the Violence Intervention Program (VIP) at the Shock Trauma Unit of the University of Maryland Medical Center, the state's busiest hospital for violent injuries. It became one of the country's first hospital-based anti-violence programs.
"We approached this problem like any public health crisis, like heart disease or smoking," he said. "We tried to work on the root causes." Since 1998, VIP has provided substance abuse counseling, job skills training and other support services to nearly 500 trauma victims.
"Using that scalpel blade to save their life is the first step," Cooper said. "The next step is to try to keep them from coming back."
A 2006 study by Cooper and his colleagues, published in the Journal of Trauma, showed that people in the program were six times less likely to be readmitted with a violent injury and three times less likely to be arrested for a violent crime.
Or we could kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out! Seems to be our preferred answer to a LOT of things.
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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"What I get is that the availability of guns has nothing to do with crime rate."
But it has a lot to do with the murder rate. It's so much easier to kill with a gun than a knife or bat.
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Silence is consent.
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"People are not born like this."
Ahem - yes, they are. Children are remarkably, if unknowingly, inconsiderate and even cruel - grabbing toys with their little hands, squishing ants with their little fingers, poking dogs with their little sticks ...
Children have to learn empathy like they learn anything else.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:Don't take the "might makes right" approach with children. Don't assume they are for YOUR benefit, or reflect on YOUR self-worth. Be fair. Listen to what they have to say. ACT as you want them to behave.
I'm always very fuzzy on what you would consider right, in a concrete and specific way.
Right frem?
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:My son is on a crusade at his school to protect fireflies from being disturbed or killed by kids there.
Originally posted by rue:
Children are remarkably, if unknowingly, inconsiderate and even cruel - grabbing toys with their little hands, squishing ants with their little fingers, poking dogs with their little sticks ...
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Don't take the "might makes right" approach with children. Don't assume they are for YOUR benefit, or reflect on YOUR self-worth. Be fair. Listen to what they have to say. ACT as you want them to behave.
I'm always very fuzzy on what you would consider right, in a concrete and specific way.
Right frem?
Seems reasonable... So is this behavior actually so rare in parents, in such a fundamental way that it is shaking society apart and making children violently vicious?
I mean, obviously parent-child relationships are often complex and have difficulties. Many people in my circle of friends had issues with their parents that messed them up in some way, myself included, but it didn't turn them inhuman. How wide-spread is the kind of emotional abuse that would turn children violent and dangerous?
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