Violence as Deterrent

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Saturday, October 4, 2025 00:35
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CITIZEN

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Seems reasonable... So is this behavior actually so rare in parents, in such a fundamental way that it is shaking society apart and making children violently vicious?

I mean, obviously parent-child relationships are often complex and have difficulties. Many people in my circle of friends had issues with their parents that messed them up in some way, myself included, but it didn't turn them inhuman. How wide-spread is the kind of emotional abuse that would turn children violent and dangerous?

I think neglect is probably more widespread and damaging. Most parents don't seem to give a fuck.

SIGNYM

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:09 PM

As widespread as drug abuse, alcoholism, and a family history of abuse?

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

AGENTROUKA

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"People are not born like this."

Ahem - yes, they are. Children are remarkably, if unknowingly, inconsiderate and even cruel - grabbing toys with their little hands, squishing ants with their little fingers, poking dogs with their little sticks ...

Children have to learn empathy like they learn anything else.

Considering, though, how hands-on childcare is early on, and how early on children learn to feel empathy, it's fair to say that you actually have to do something wrong to prevent a child from learning it - barring chemical disturbances in the brain or any such physical influence.

CITIZEN

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
As widespread as drug abuse, alcoholism, and a family history of abuse?

Talkin' to me?

I'd say many of those are symptoms and causes of neglect, so yes.

ANTHONYT

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:13 PM

"But it has a lot to do with the murder rate. It's so much easier to kill with a gun than a knife or bat. "

Hello,

I might be content in a society that recognized my right to carry a smallsword, sidesword, rapier, or dagger.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

AGENTROUKA

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Seems reasonable... So is this behavior actually so rare in parents, in such a fundamental way that it is shaking society apart and making children violently vicious?

I mean, obviously parent-child relationships are often complex and have difficulties. Many people in my circle of friends had issues with their parents that messed them up in some way, myself included, but it didn't turn them inhuman. How wide-spread is the kind of emotional abuse that would turn children violent and dangerous?

I think neglect is probably more widespread and damaging. Most parents don't seem to give a fuck.

Most parents, really?

A fair number of parents, I could buy, but most? Isn't that a bit of a cynical assumption?

CITIZEN

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Most parents, really?

A fair number of parents, I could buy, but most? Isn't that a bit of a cynical assumption?

Probably. Most parents care about themselves more than their kids, in my experience. They don't outright neglect them, but they come first and their kids come second. In my opinion that's on a continuum of "don't give a fuck"ism.

AGENTROUKA

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
As widespread as drug abuse, alcoholism, and a family history of abuse?

Yes, but those are sort of... you know, obvious reasons and not - like Frem says - held up as virtues. I was more interested in the less obvious things this implies, and the far larger segment of society that would be touched by them.

AGENTROUKA

Friday, March 27, 2009 9:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Most parents, really?

A fair number of parents, I could buy, but most? Isn't that a bit of a cynical assumption?

Probably. Most parents care about themselves more than their kids, in my experience. They don't outright neglect them, but they come first and their kids come second. In my opinion that's on a continuum of "don't give a fuck"ism.

But.. most??

And what all rates as putting children second, self first, to make the vast majority of parents qualify?

HKCAVALIER

Friday, March 27, 2009 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"People are not born like this."

Ahem - yes, they are. Children are remarkably, if unknowingly, inconsiderate and even cruel - grabbing toys with their little hands, squishing ants with their little fingers, poking dogs with their little sticks ...

Children have to learn empathy like they learn anything else.

Heya Rue,

I know we've been over this ground before, but this seems a starker statement than you've given in the past. Y'know, a lot happens between birth and the point at which a child has the motor skills to squish ants and poke dogs with sticks. A lot of learning and modeling. Every child I've known who's done that stuff with any regularity had a controlling parent who was blind to certain important needs. I've known several children well, who don't do that, whose parents treat them with the respect and the wonder they deserve.

Perhaps your talking about the developmental process of becoming aware of others as separate beings--can't have empathy if you don't realize there are other feeling beings in the world. Well, that's fine, but it doesn't mean that you're an automatic tyrant without training. It means that there is a developmental period when empathy is beyond you and then some months later it's not.

I presume you've got statistics on ant squishing and dog poking, but I can't see how any such study could rule out the possibility that this was learned behavior.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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