Violence as Deterrent
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Saturday, October 4, 2025 00:35
VIEWED: 6613
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Hello,
This is a lamentable incident, forwarded to me by my father who lives in South Florida.
I am very sad that this came to violence, and sadder still that a victim is in the hospital with grievous injury.
That being said, I am glad that the criminal in this case met resistance. I believe that many criminals will be dissuaded from robbery if they believe that their lives may be in danger from every quarter while they commit the crime. An armed society of lawful citizens is, to me, the preferred solution to an armed society of unlawful citizens. The unlawful are perpetually outnumbered.
The forwarded article follows.
--Anthony
Robber fatally shot in Miami Burger King holdup
A robbery at a Burger King in Miami's Upper East Side neighborhood left one person dead and another seriously injured.
BY ROBERT SAMUELS
rsamuels@MiamiHerald.com
An afternoon shootout at a busy Burger King restaurant in Miami left a potential robber dead and the customer who shot him seriously wounded.
The bloody event unfolded about 4 p.m. Tuesday at the restaurant at Northeast 54th Street and Biscayne Boulevard. It was a time, employees said, when it is usually crowded with schoolchildren and people getting out of work early.
The robber entered wearing a ski mask. He approached a clerk, showed his gun and demanded money, said Miami police spokesman Jeff Giordano.
A customer eyed him and the two started arguing. The customer had a concealed-weapons permit and his gun -- and the two exchanged gunfire.
The robber crumpled to the floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.
The customer, with several gunshot wounds, was in serious but stable condition at Jackson Memorial Hospital's Ryder Trauma Center.
Officers divided witnesses into several groups outside the restaurant to gather information about the incident. Employees waiting to start their shift called friends and family members on their cellphones to pass the time because they were not allowed through the police tape.
''I just hope all my people are OK inside,'' said Cynthia Thomas, who has worked at the Burger King for five years. ``It is scary.''
Around them, drivers on busy Biscayne Boulevard gawked at the scene.
The area is a prime destination for residents in the Upper East Side neighborhood -- featuring Soyka's restaurant, Sushi Siam and Andiamo Pizza.
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I don't agree.
One dead, one seriously wounded over what was likely a small amount of cash.
And where does it end ? Gunfire because someone looked dangerous ? Because someone came out of their house at night to see what was going on - wearing the wrong skin color ? Because someone looked at someone else funny ? Or wore the wrong clothes ? Oh wait - all that would be Los Angeles.
I know where it ends. Armed encampments and hair-trigger cycles of retribution.
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Silence is consent.
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Hello Rue,
I don't believe the issue was the cash, but rather the armed man threatening people with violence in order to take it. For me, the question is also "Where does it end?" Not with one robbery, surely. People who are prepared to perform armed lawlessness infrequently make it a one-time act. Not to mention that successful lawlessness is hardly a disincentive to more of the same. It's rather more an advert to the world that you can put on a ski mask, grab a gun, and get money at will. Or anything else you wish to acquire.
Where does it end? For that robber, it ended in that store, when he threatened people with violence.
The things you show a concern about, Rue, are not the products of an armed society. They are the products of a sick society. I am very much in favor of increasing the good health of our society. I am very much in favor of good education and the early rehabilitation of offenders.
I am even more recently considering the benefits to society of making sure that minimum survival needs are provided for all citizens. Namely food, shelter, and productive labor to all who want it. It is a shard of socialism invading into my libertarian principles, and what I call a 'minimum guarantee.' Essentially, that every human is entitled to this minimum guarantee of what they need to survive.
But I also believe that crime, and especially violent crime that threatens the well being of citizens, needs to be opposed. Actively and immediately. Not for the good of the individual, but for the good of society.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Fortunately no one else was hurt. But this could have ended very differently, with a headline that said Five Killed in Attempted Robbery, Bandit Flees on Foot
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Hello,
That is quite correct. There is always the potential for robberies to go horribly awry. Defying a criminal always carries the potential for disaster. This could have ended much worse than it did.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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AnthonyT
Thinking about it further - I don't think the problem is the need for guns. I think it's the breakdown of 'civil' society.
And I can't think of one heavily armed society* that I'd want to live in - Afghanistan ? The Congo ? Somalia ?
Guns simply don't improve the society and make it better, more law-abiding or more considerate.
* Finland's gun ownership rate is far below that of the US. Also, most guns in Finladn are dbl brl shotguns or hunting rifles.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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I have to disagree as well Anthony. I have a lot of hope but also a well earned lack of faith in my fellow humans just on streets and roads, let a lone with another loaded weapon. There are too many that would find too little reason to wip it out and start blazing to display their superior fire power, and by association, their superior knowledge of right and wrong.
Continuing the car analogy, what would be the punishment for drinking and shooting? Considering the level of drinking in this country surely the 2 together would be a disaster. I'm afraid I wouldn't visit many bars. 
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I think our hero may have showed poor judgement, although w/o knowing exactly the layout... who was where... it's hard to say. Handguns being what they are you need to be aware not only who is behind your target but who is behind YOU, and everyone else around. Could be people in the takeout lane, in the parking lot or on the busy street as well people in the store. If the place was full of customers I'd want to bean our fearless citizen over the head for endangering others.
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Just to weigh in - HOWEVER - I'd trust you to use a gun appropriately, AnthonyT. You don't seem to have the level of angst or bravado that makes the use of guns by other people sometimes questionable. So this is not a "not ever, no one" position, but an opinion of people on the whole.
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Silence is consent.
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Hello,
I understand the concern for bystanders, especially in a busy store. Where I disagree is in regards to the source of the danger. It came, to my eyes, not from the bystander customer, but from the threatening armed robber. It is this gentleman, and no other, who displayed a flagrant disregard for safety. We must remember that one does not point a loaded weapon at anything one is not prepared to destroy.
I agree with Rue, that we have an un-civil society. I'd very much like to see that corrected within my lifetime.
It should be noted, also, that I would have appreciated any resistance to this criminal. The customer might have had a jackknife, two fists, or merely a stern refusal to accommodate the assailant in any way. Even simply telling a robber 'no' counts as a positive resistance to crime and a deterrent to more of the same. Any lack of compliance, while it may be especially unhealthy in the short-term, has (in my opinion) long-term benefits to society at large.
We would not comply with a villainous figure of authority in our government. Why should we comply with a villainous figure of criminal authority? It is not in our best interests. Resistance should be lauded.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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