Dollhouse: Stage Fright - we get to hear Echo wail like she's on American Idol.
POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Friday, March 6, 2009 14:37
VIEWED: 8723
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The Dollhouse is proving to be a curiosity for me. I'm finding the 'missions' that Echo is being sent on as totally redundant. Is anyone else feeling this?
I'm curious as to why the show isn't actually dealing with the characters within the Dollhouse? I mean Amy Acker has been looking like a sour puss for three episodes now and no one seems bothered. I find this strange and disjointed.
This last episode was maybe the most difficult to watch and yet strangely, gave me the best sense of urgency about the episode to come...and it lasted two seconds at the finalé! Curious how Joss&Co can do that to me....
So far Boyd is excellent and entirely holding the premise together. I also like the cute next door neighbour to the FBI agent who I think is more than she seems (at least I hope she is more than she seems) Otherwise I'm not relating to anyone.
As this is Joss I will absolutely give it my full attention but I must admit I am severely missing Joss' sense of humour which I now realise has been the main reason why I find his shows so engaging. Without that element Dollhouse is proving less accessible than I would have thought.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
On one side, Quantum Leap is social commentary with no strings attached, no need to revisit the idea later, but in its core I think it's lifestyle tourism. Here's an hour in the life of a lifestyle set.
I think there's a good deal more than lifestyle tourism going on here, and the potential for much more. I loved Quantum Leap, and it wasn't about the leaps - it was about Sam, his relationship with Al and his longing for "home". Similarly, I can see Dollhouse becoming a very poignant story about a girl regaining her identity.
That said, the 'leaps' on QL were entertaining enough in their own right that waiting for the meaty character bits was worthwhile. Not sure I can say that for Dollhouse yet. They either need to ramp up the stuff about Echo's backstory and the mystery of Alpha, or make the "engagements" considerably more interesting. So far they've just been warmed over CSI.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Eliza lost me on the negotiator. It was the amount of makeover that was require, the glasses, contrived. This is standard hollywood cover for an actor who can't make the radical shift needed to carry the role. When no makeup or wardrobe is used to show a change of character, and it's completely believable, you never even pause, that's first class talent. That's Summer as Cameron, or River.
Well, Eliza still sold me on the negotiator. But, lest there be any confusion, Eliza ain't no Summer. Never could be. Also, the role of River alone is simply too ingenious to top.
Quote:
Playing the staff of dollhouse? That doesn't require a lot of talent. Amy is just imho a flat out better actress, and she's in a role that really doesn't require it. I think he had trouble getting her.
For some reason I really like Amy Acker. Dunny why. Probably exactly because you feel she's capable of so much more than just looking sour. I wouldn't mind seeing a whole ep devoted to her. Nor would I mind seeing the Dolls interact inside the Dollhouse (for longer than the space of a schoolboy's wink, that is). Like following them for a day. I mean, they wake up, have breakfast, swim, and do what? Do it with subtlety -- of which Joss is more than capable, of course -- and you can lay the groundwork for a whole psychological 'emergence' thingy, where you get to see the Dolls in their various stages of 'awakening'. Dr. Saunders interacting with them would be a nice touch, too. But let's give it time. Who knows? Maybe Joss already has such things planned.
I think the 'problem' with Joss is that he's big a name, but not so big yet that he can write his own ticket (like George Lucas). If, as he said in a recent interview, he doesn't get approached by a person in a suit, he can't go make Firefly -- or any other project he has in mind -- on his own, or without interference. That's what networks are for: to get in a man's way.
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
As this is Joss I will absolutely give it my full attention but I must admit I am severely missing Joss' sense of humour which I now realise has been the main reason why I find his shows so engaging. Without that element Dollhouse is proving less accessible than I would have thought.
Giving FOX due credit, they were actually the ones that insisted Joss bring more humor to Firefly. They initially thought it was too dark (more like Joss made Mal in Serenity). And, I must admit, the humor really is a big thing for me in Firefly, too. Joss is very witty, we all know that. You only need to read his blogs to realize that wit is a part of this man's very existence. With Dollhouse, of course, it's probably harder to make it funnier. But I do miss that aspect of Joss' genius, yes.
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
You came up with DeWitt, good call, who the hell is DeWitt? If anyone is coming up as "security dude" after three eps it's an issue.
DeWitt is Adelle, the woman who interviewed Echo at the start of the first episode, a sort of James Bond's 'M' wannabe (who thinks slapping on a Brittish accent makes hers a good role). Presumably, she's the one in charge of the Dollhouse.
Quote:
Sweet! I didn't catch that. I like the more subtle chess set ups that could never arise, these can be clever, because they're hard to construct. More commonly, the random chess setup is just in a position where someone is in check, or pawn takes queen and white wins the game, and this is supposed to be some major chess match that goes on for days. Pawns in rows 1 and 8 are precious.
The usual way to go about it, is to just use positions of existing (famous) games, like they did in Blade Runner. Haven't heard it officially, but I'm as good as certain they played out a game between Anderssen and Kieseritzky, London, 1851:
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+ 4.Kf1 b5 5.Bxb5 Nf6 6.Nf3 Qh6 7.d3 Nh5 8.Nh4 Qg5 9.Nf5 c6 10.g4 Nf6 11.Rg1 cxb5 12.h4 Qg6 13.h5 Qg5 14.Qf3 Ng8 15.Bx
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Quote:
DeWitt is Adelle, the woman who interviewed Echo at the start of the first episode, a sort of James Bond's 'M' wannabe (who thinks slapping on a British accent makes hers a good role).
Olivia Williams is British. She didn't have to slap on that accent.
As for that continuity error in The Message/Objects in Space, maybe you just noticed someone discussing it but that argument has been going for nearly five years now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
The Dollhouse is proving to be a curiosity for me. I'm finding the 'missions' that Echo is being sent on as totally redundant. Is anyone else feeling this?
I'm curious as to why the show isn't actually dealing with the characters within the Dollhouse? I mean Amy Acker has been looking like a sour puss for three episodes now and no one seems bothered. I find this strange and disjointed.
This last episode was maybe the most difficult to watch and yet strangely, gave me the best sense of urgency about the episode to come...and it lasted two seconds at the finalé! Curious how Joss&Co can do that to me....
So far Boyd is excellent and entirely holding the premise together. I also like the cute next door neighbour to the FBI agent who I think is more than she seems (at least I hope she is more than she seems) Otherwise I'm not relating to anyone.
As this is Joss I will absolutely give it my full attention but I must admit I am severely missing Joss' sense of humour which I now realise has been the main reason why I find his shows so engaging. Without that element Dollhouse is proving less accessible than I would have thought.
It's interesting how feelings very so widely on the quality of the 3 episodes so far. I thought this was the best of the 3.
I also thought the humor was there. The whole plot was set up to diss American Idol, making the whole episode a joke, but not in a bad way.
I guess my biggest dissapointment was that Echo was actually imprinted with Faith the vampire slayer in this episode!
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For what it's worth, I'm in the Have Patience camp. The reason we can be so critical is that we have so much of Whedon's other work to draw on and compare to. And that's where my faith rests for the moment: I don't think Whedon would sign his name to something he wasn't pleased with, and we've seen alot of good from the man in the past.
As for the continuity (sorry- dead horse, I know...)was it really revealed that River was a reader in OiS, or was it just "revealed" to us that everyone else thought so, too? It just sounds like Mal's vocalising what everyone'd suspected.
And as for the ice planet comment, it's not like Jayne's all that careful about what thoughts escape through his mouth...
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
That's what networks are for: to get in a man's way.
I still opine that Joss should have gone to the premium channels. They seem to have less inclination to get in a man's way when he's exploring difficult or interesting concepts.
[/sig]
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The Dollhouse is proving to be a curiosity for me. I'm finding the 'missions' that Echo is being sent on as totally redundant. Is anyone else feeling this?
I think I get where you're coming from. My take on this is that he's setting us up by lobbing a few at us. He's getting us comfortable, or uncomfortable, with where he's taken us so far.
Some of the assignments are rather boring and mundane (almost), but nothing is ever mundane with Joss (except for what's on the surface) and it is only later that he will reveal something to us that, at first, seemed to be nothing at all.
In the Serenity Pilot Part 1 & 2, when River first came out of the box, what did we know? We only knew what Simon told the crew after Mal opened the box. She was a genius who's brain was tampered with by the Alliance. Did we know then that she was a reader? no; Did we know that she was a lethal weapon? no; Did we know that she was handy with a gun? no.
As a matter of fact in the pilot, when Dobbs took River from the infirmary at gunpoint, she was deathly afraid of guns. In OIS, we find out just how smart she is. Joss slowly, painstakingly so, reveals his little secrets to us and delights in giving us little hints and clues along the way, through both dialogue and story.
In DH take, for instance, the reveal that Victor was an active. How many saw that coming? Anyone, anyone? I have said this in another thread how Joss likes to give you hints within the dialogue where his characters are going. OK, take a few steps back, in the last ep Victor talking to Ballard and says that the DH doesn't exist and if it did that he would choose to be Doris Day. Next thing you see is Victor in the chair. HELLO!
I'm curious as to why the show isn't actually dealing with the characters within the Dollhouse? I mean Amy Acker has been looking like a sour puss for three episodes now and no one seems bothered. I find this strange and disjointed.
I think that it is doing just that. In The target we find out how the good Dr. got her scars. We also find out about Boyd and we get some animosity from the chief security guy. We also find out that DeWitt is no wuss, she fires back at her security chief when he questions her judgement regarding Ballard. And here is another little tidbit - they send 2 actives (maybe more) into assignments. Why is that important?
Think about it. In the pilot they send in Sierra to back up Echo, and in the last ep Sierra is sent in once again to back up Echo. It seems that the high-profile assignments get 2 or more actives. Now we come full circle to Ballard. Do you think that keeping the DH is high priority for DeWitt? Of course it is. So here's my theory on that: We know Victor has been assigned to him, but I think that there's another and it's the girl in 3B? That's strictly a wild guess, but it makes sense to me.
You're right about Boyd. I think Harry Lennix is excellent in this role. I believe the story could be told from his point of view. I get the feeling that he was a good cop who probably pissed off the wrong people on the police force and was asked to leave. His back story could prove to be very interesting, as well as Amy Acker's doctor.
The humor is there but few and far in between, they are litlle nuggets that we must keep an eye out for.
As I said before......patience my fellow travelers, patience. This is gonna be fun.
SGG
Tawabawho?
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I'm finding the 'missions' that Echo is being sent on as totally redundant. Is anyone else feeling this?
Way I figure this, is that all these missions ARE, in fact, if not redundant, then certainly secondary to a main thread that's being spun: how the blank slate is gradually being filled up with echoes of earlier assignments, and how that affects the Dolls. It's actually quite a common theme in the world of robotics, A.I., psychology, etc., to explore what happens when -- and especially why -- someone/something grows and behaves beyond the programmed parameters.
They touched a bit upon this in Stage Fright, too, in that they were wondering whether, and why, Echo interpreted the mission parameters the way she did. But I'm guessing the deeper story being told is that of new personae being formed (unbeknownst to the Dollhouse staff, who just chalked off the one 'composite event' incident as an anomaly). So, I wouldn't say Echo's missions are truly redundant, in the sense that they could be skipped altogether, as each of them serves the purpose of adding another (near invisible) building block to the newly forming persona on the presumed blank slate. But, as for the mission-stories themselves, yes, I don't think they're the real story Joss wants to tell.
So, if I'm right, then maybe indeed more patience is required, as it simply takes time, like when adding literal pieces to a puzzle, ere you begin to see the outline of the full picture.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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pachelbel wrote:
Quote:
I also thought the humor was there. The whole plot was set up to diss American Idol, making the whole episode a joke, but not in a bad way.
Yes I agree - that came into play. Thing is though it went on too long and looked like they were actually far too into the 'look' of immitating it that the joke wore off - at least for me it did.
Quote:I think this will be inevitable really.
I guess my biggest dissapointment was that Echo was actually imprinted with Faith the vampire slayer in this episode!
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