Dollhouse: Stage Fright - we get to hear Echo wail like she's on American Idol.

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Friday, March 6, 2009 14:37
VIEWED: 8723
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THESOMNAMBULIST

Monday, March 2, 2009 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:

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I think I get where you're coming from. My take on this is that he's setting us up by lobbing a few at us. He's getting us comfortable, or uncomfortable, with where he's taken us so far.
Some of the assignments are rather boring and mundane (almost), but nothing is ever mundane with Joss (except for what's on the surface) and it is only later that he will reveal something to us that, at first, seemed to be nothing at all.

I heartily agree with you Shiny - thing is though I think this works for us Joss fans but a show that is designed to work retrospectively is maybe not the best approach for trying to draw in viewers and maintain them. I don't know, I'm only suggesting. When you look at shows that last like Lost or 24 they tend to deliver a hefty punch from the onset and then proceed to dangle carrots...

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I think that it is doing just that. In The target we find out how the good Dr. got her scars. We also find out about Boyd and we get some animosity from the chief security guy.

I thought that a little weak actually. I'm probably wrong here and I hate to criticize Amy's acting but to me it looks like they shot all her scenes in one or two days. She seems stuck in her own time. Her morals are showing and the fact that no-one appears concerned is bugging me....

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Do you think that keeping the DH is high priority for DeWitt? Of course it is. So here's my theory on that: We know Victor has been assigned to him, but I think that there's another and it's the girl in 3B? That's strictly a wild guess, but it makes sense to me.

Yes I'm hoping the girl in 3B is an active too. :D That was what I was hinting at in my above post.

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You're right about Boyd. I think Harry Lennix is excellent in this role.

Yeah he's very good and the show is at it's best when we're with him...

As for patience... Yeah I have plenty. It's not really me I'm worried about. It's the new blood so to speak. I have three friends who just don't care about what's happening - and I'm concerned how representative that may be. Is one in four good odds at such an early stage ?

THESOMNAMBULIST

Monday, March 2, 2009 10:38 AM

Originally posted by asarian:

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Way I figure this, is that all these missions ARE, in fact, if not redundant, then certainly secondary to a main thread that's being spun: how the blank slate is gradually being filled up with echoes of earlier assignments, and how that affects the Dolls. It's actually quite a common theme in the world of robotics, A.I., psychology, etc., to explore what happens when -- and especially why -- someone/something grows and behaves beyond the programmed parameters.

Yes I think you're right. Their relevance will become apparent. I think the show is designed to work better retrospectively and that's fine. I just hope that folk who aren't already familiar with Joss will adhere to that. *Shrugs*

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So, if I'm right, then maybe indeed more patience is required, as it simply takes time, like when adding literal pieces to a puzzle, ere you begin to see the outline of the full picture.

As Daffy Duck would say "Indubitably"

:D

KWICKO

Monday, March 2, 2009 12:56 PM

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Olivia Williams is British. She didn't have to slap on that accent.

Yup. You may also remember her from "Rushmore".

Mike

If you're going to assume anything, assume you're wrong.

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 12:09 AM

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
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Originally posted by asarian:
Also, did DeWitt really have to spell it out why Echo actually acted in accordance with the mission parameters?...

You know, I was kind of thinking that too. But, that's how they chose to interpret it. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that Echo recognized her friend from the Dollhouse and was honestly more interested in saving her protecting the diva.

That's the view I take. I think that by the end (or near to) of the ep, Echo's focus was all but entirely on rescuing Sierra. The fact that Raina came to her senses enough to be hauled back up (along with her matching torn rotator cuffs!) was just sort of a happy bonus. I understand that Echo was "programmed" to protect Raina no matter what, so maybe I should re-think that just a bit. Or, did Echo somehow subvert or co-opt that programming over to Sierra?

As for DeWitt's painful spelling-out of Echo's performance to Dominic - I think DeWitt's up to something, possibly in cahoots with Topher and Saunders, and she was just trying to get Dominic to chill-out. I also think there was some significance to DeWitt asking Dominic if he was a fan of Raina (for a second I thought she was asking him if he was a fan of Echo and/or the actives in general), but no idea right now what that significance would be.

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CellarDoor:
And I've come up with a theory about the cheesy plot points, they are so we will look beyond the standalone nature of the engagements and focus on the story arc about the actives and the Dollhouse itself.

Interesting strategy...emphasize the forest by killing (or otherwise hobbling) the trees. 'S got FOX's gummy little fingerprints all over it. It wouldn't surprise me if you're reading their minds there, CD, but it seems to me a dubious plan for success.

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Sergeant X:
They either need to ramp up the stuff about Echo's backstory and the mystery of Alpha, or make the "engagements" considerably more interesting. So far they've just been warmed over CSI.
SergeantX

What Sarge said...CSI...maybe even Viper...

One pleasant(?) surprise for me with Stage Fright - it (setting / nature of the assignment) didn't annoy me near as much as I thought it would, based on the description. As others have indicated, I had my misgivings...but I guess they were worse than the reality. Matter of fact, this-n-that and all-n-all, I guess I consider this the best* ep so far.

*Or, if you prefer, the least disappointing.

It was like that when we got here!

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:22 PM

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Originally posted by asarian:
what's with Victor also asking whether he fell asleep? That gets a mite fake/forced

Much like thinking they need a 'treatment,' the falling asleep thing seems to be part of a deep-set programing. Echo asks every time; I would expect all of them to. The thing that bothered me was Victor still having the Russian accent of his previous personality. Can the actor not do any other accents? If so, I'm sorry, but what is he doing there? Is his sole purpose to be this Russian mafia kind of guy? He never has any other assignments for the duration of the show? If he does, can he only be on assignments that require a Russian? I dunno, that seemed odd to me. I expected all the 'blank slates' to have that flat, almost expressionless voice, any identifying characteristics wiped away. Echo doesn't sound like she's from Boston, Victor shouldn't sound like he's from Russia. IMO

[/sig]

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 6:51 PM

Maybe accents aren't so easily wiped away. If they don't remove language capabilities in general from the wiped actives, then maybe it's dangerous to touch the HOW they talk part of that.

Caroline didn't sound like she had a boston accent to me, even if Eliza technically does IRL. Singer version Echo (Jordan) occassionally had touches of the Boston accent, but I think that's something Eliza brought to Jordan, not something she's bringing to Echo/Caroline. And, story-wise, I think that accent was part of her programming.

ASARIAN

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:02 PM

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Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
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Originally posted by asarian:
what's with Victor also asking whether he fell asleep? That gets a mite fake/forced

Much like thinking they need a 'treatment,' the falling asleep thing seems to be part of a deep-set programing. Echo asks every time; I would expect all of them to. The thing that bothered me was Victor still having the Russian accent of his previous personality. Can the actor not do any other accents? If so, I'm sorry, but what is he doing there? Is his sole purpose to be this Russian mafia kind of guy? He never has any other assignments for the duration of the show? If he does, can he only be on assignments that require a Russian? I dunno, that seemed odd to me. I expected all the 'blank slates' to have that flat, almost expressionless voice, any identifying characteristics wiped away. Echo doesn't sound like she's from Boston, Victor shouldn't sound like he's from Russia. IMO

Good point. :) I hadn't even noticed; but yeah, a persistent Russian accent which survives the wipe, you'd think someone (Topher, DeWitt?) would notice that.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 7:33 PM

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
maybe it's dangerous to touch the HOW they talk part of that.

Maybe, but they gave the Negotiator persona Spanish language abilities, if I remember right, and her pronunciation wasn't awkward, it sounded pretty good.
And true, I don't remember Caroline having a Boston accent, but she did speak more... harshly. Echo speaks softly, with somewhat higher pitch and rounder tones, very childlike.

Perhaps Victor was originally Russian and they couldn't wipe his accent, but if that's not the case, he's retaining that part of his programmed persona, in an obvious way, and I would expect that to set off some alarms.

[/sig]

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:53 PM

I think the accents they're programmed to have are probably a bit different an issue than the accents that are left over. Like, you can learn how to fake an accent, that's what the programming is like, except the actives are downloading an entire personality, and the accent in that case is real.

A person starts learning to speak when they're an infant, and pick up the mannerisms/speaking style of those around them (most likely their parents). It's not consciously learned or remembered; in fact, children tend to forget their first three years of life. So wiping a person's memory, but retaining their ability to speak, I'm not convinced you'd wipe away their mannerisms.

Echo not talking like Caroline would be an example of inconsistency, however, since Victor retains his accent. But I'm not sure Echo doesn't retain Caroline's mannerisms: a more boisterious way of talking is different from a speech pattern like an accent, and dependent upon personality (which the wiping process strips away).

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, March 4, 2009 12:07 AM

You're right Sleepyhead

I heartily agree with you Shiny - thing is though I think this works for us Joss fans but a show that is designed to work retrospectively is maybe not the best approach for trying to draw in viewers and maintain them. I don't know, I'm only suggesting. When you look at shows that last like Lost or 24 they tend to deliver a hefty punch from the onset and then proceed to dangle carrots...

It is his M.O. My guess is that he's relying on his rep (Buffy, Angel) to draw in newbies. That may not work. I believe that may have been Fox's take on it as well, hence the "request" for several re-writes. The execs at Fox figure that they know a thing or two about successful shows. Perhaps using the '24' approach would give the show some much-needed punch and pizazz. But I think he should go with his strength - episodic writing. Come strong or don't come at all. I'm just saying.
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I thought that a little weak actually. I'm probably wrong here and I hate to criticize Amy's acting but to me it looks like they shot all her scenes in one or two days. She seems stuck in her own time. Her morals are showing and the fact that no-one appears concerned is bugging me....

Yeah, I hear you. It does seem that she's on a single note in these first 3 eps. But just give me a second, OK? My feeling is that something has traumatized Dr. S and Boyd is going to draw her out. It's agreed that he's key in all this, both in the story and his acting ability, I get the notion that he and Echo are on a journey (not so much different from Mal & River) and that Echo will not be alone in becoming aware. The good Dr's story will get better and so will Amy. Where do I get this confidence? I just think back to River's journey in the series, at first we got bits and pieces of her story, and if you look carefully you could see she's pretty much crazy throughout until OiS. Of course, Summer was brilliant in her portrayal.
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Yes I'm hoping the girl in 3B is an active too. :D That was what I was hinting at in my above post.

Actually, I got the apartment number wrong (don't know where I got 3B from), it's Apt. 205 (the FBI agent is 207). And yes, I did read your post (I should have mentioned that in my post) but great minds think alike
I thought that at the end of the show, "What if the next door neighbor is a Doll, since we know they assign 2 actives to important cases."
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As for patience... Yeah I have plenty. It's not really me I'm worried about. It's the new blood so to speak. I have three friends who just don't care about what's happening - and I'm concerned how representative that may be. Is one in four good odds at such an early stage ?

Yeah, I'm concerned too. Joss has this tendency to show us his reveals painstakingly and excruciatingly slowly. That may work for us Browncoats, but it's not for everyone. The casual viewer channel-surfing for something good to watch on Friday nights may skip over this show after a few minutes.
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I just wanted to add something regarding the casting on the show, since many, including myself, have expressed concern about some of the acting so far in this series.

Eliza (don't get me wrong I like her but...) needs to stretch herself a bit. I love her as the tough girl, she's great at it, but this role calls for something more. She did show me a little of it in the pilot. BTW the glasses thing was a joke, even Boyd made that comment to Topher. That's Joss' humor. She needs to be more consistent.

My take on Mr. Dominick (security chief) and the FBI Agent Ballard is that the 2 actors should have been switched around. I believe Reed Diamond (Mr. Dominic) would have made a better Agent Ballard and vice versa for Penikett (Agent Ballard). Right now Diamond shows to be the stronger character in the series between the two.
That's just me.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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