Rewriting Shindig
POSTED BY: DMI
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:25
VIEWED: 21001
PAGE 10 of 11
Well, he's a pilot. They have a different mentality than trenchmen. Dogfights are somewhat impersonal, but there's also this weird kind of respect, like it's a duel, it's different from the feel of war that most of us are familiar with. You fly a sortee, you go home to your base after and have dinner and drinks.
He'd have wanted to fly and be the greatest pilot out there, be decorated as a hero for some nigh-impossible scouting mission or perilous escape. I think if he got captured, he'd be disappointed he never got that chance.
Oh, also on the Wash-during-the-war-history, there's also the question of where did he got to pilot school. That could seem alliance because it's very official, but then on more prosperous worlds (like one with enough industry to be heavily polluted), they'd probably have to be able to train pilots to transport their goods to the rest of the verse.
So, it could swing either way, but Wash really doesn't have an Alliance mentality. I think he gets a thrill thumbing his nose at the law, same as the rest of them. On the other hand, he has called their lifestyle "unhealthsome" and unwise, and suggested Zoe is the only reason he does it. It think he's just more acutely aware of the danger because it's Zoe who's in danger.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Wash is acceptable through marriage
What makes you think he supported unification and is only 'acceptable' because Zoe married him? I never saw any evidence of his support for the Alliance, and behind the scene conjecture is that he was flying in some function for the Independents and was taken prisoner, spending most of the war in a low-security cell entertaining other minor war criminals with shadow puppets.
C'mon, that's so Wash.
Sorry, did not intend to suggest Wash was Pro-Alliance. Had no info pro-Alliance, nor did he banter aboutn how he fought in the war for the Independents. Without clear indication either way, his marriage to Zoe (actually vice versa) s=gave him cred - Zoe would not mesh with a purplebelly.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
But doing what she does, Nandi quickly and efficiently finds out what their feelings are, and equally quickly reveals them. She makes a big old mess of it, but I think ( and I think Nandi thought) the two of them would have been able to work things out once they knew... if not for Inara's secrets that cause her to leave. I don't know. Just how it happens, seems a bit too unbelievable for coincidence.
Except it's not efficient! :)
Nandi can tell Inara likes Mal - without knowing Inara ran into Mal outside her door, without talking about Mal at all, JUST from the way Inara won't look at her when she steps into the room later that morning. Or something like that.
She can read Inara, when she puts her mind to it.
The efficient thing to do would have been to ask Inara upfront. That reaction would have been enough to know and then she could have worked up some kind of reveal - if indeed she was so nosy as to mess with their business in the first place.
I really find that whole theory of manipulation cannot work without attaching a hefty dose of selfishness to Nandi because you do NOT mess with other people's relationships unasked, especially if you have training. And it just doesn't jive with the maturity Nandi displays in the rest of the episode.
And I still maintain that it's nothing short of cruel to create a rift like that. You do NOT do that to anyone who even remotely like on purpose. Whether they MAY repair (repair! That means something was broken!) or not later.
I mean, seriously, Mal and Inara could never look back on the moment when they got together without thinking about Mal sleeping with Nandi. How is that going to help them last? It doesn't really promise anything for a couple starting out rocky actually being able to stay together. Nandi isn't that dumb.
I do NOT think they would have been able to work things out "were it not for Inara's secret". If it wasn't for Inara's secret they MIGHT already be together (or never have met at all). But even if it wasn't for her secret (which we didn't know for the longest time and still could make sense of her choice to leave, you know) Mal's awful behavior to her would still come into play, Inara's different values, their different lives... Lots of reasons for Inara to resist the relationship that have nothing to do with her secret. Add the shock and pain from Mal and Nandi, and you do not really make a convincing case to Inara to try this relationship.
And why would Nandi think they could work it out, really? How would she know?
And as I said, sometimes a weird thing like Nandi spending time with Mal instead of Inara IS just bad writing. Joss is capable of plotholes. See "The Message". ;)
Dammit. I walked away from this thread before and I am sucked back in!
I guess I just keep being confused by your opinion. How can you even consider that anyone with training would think that this is a good idea? A selfish fourteen-year-old might, but a grown woman trained in psychology and counseling who clearly likes Inara a lot and knows a thing or two about respecting people's freedom to make choices? I'm making my incredulous face. :)
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Are you saying Nandi knew Inara had equal feelings for Mal BEFORE she spent the night with Mal?
I had not seen that view proposed before. Only that Nandi knew Mal had feelings for Inara.
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I am not saying that. I'm arguing against it, in fact.
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Think JewelStaiteFan was talking to me. :)
I don't mean to keep you here. It's a suspicion I have, not a strong opinion that this is how it was, or belief that if this was Nandi's intention, it was the right thing to do. People can make bad judgment calls, especially, it seems, when trying to play matchmaker.
But in the interest of defending my case, the banter they trade in Nandi's presence would give her no indication of how much and how seriously the two of them fight and insult each other. And I think I do agree with you that Nandi doesn't know what Inara's secret is. Hence, my saying that if this WAS what she was going for, the possibility of believing they might still have a chance even after. A lot of us fans do, don't we? If we feel like they have a chance after what Nandi did, why wouldn't SHE?
I also propose their relationship was pretty broken BEFORE Nandi may or may not have intervened.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Think JewelStaiteFan was talking to me. :)
I don't mean to keep you here. It's a suspicion I have, not a strong opinion that this is how it was, or belief that if this was Nandi's intention, it was the right thing to do. People can make bad judgment calls, especially, it seems, when trying to play matchmaker.
But in the interest of defending my case, the banter they trade in Nandi's presence would give her no indication of how much and how seriously the two of them fight and insult each other. And I think I do agree with you that Nandi doesn't know what Inara's secret is. Hence, my saying that if this WAS what she was going for, the possibility of believing they might still have a chance even after. A lot of us fans do, don't we? If we feel like they have a chance after what Nandi did, why wouldn't SHE?
I also propose their relationship was pretty broken BEFORE Nandi may or may not have intervened.
Yes, but what I am arguing is that it would be completely irrational to try and "fix" their relationship by putting such a big strain on it, you know? It's like poisoning someone to make them realise they were living a stressful life that MIGHT lead to heart problems. Who would do that?
Even if their relationship had not been fraught with conflict, this strain would have thrown them back considerably, so there is no reason at all to suspect Nandi should have expected a positive outcome from sleeping with Mal knowing that Inara loved him.
The more I think about it, the more implausible it becomes.
Why break something like that, only to "hope" that it may be fixed afterwards? It's too obviously nonsensical for a smart woman like Nandi to try, especially when there would have been better ways to try and manipulate them, say, by simply talking to them. Maximum information and manipulation without any of the damage that would keep them apart.
The thing is that Nandi is not the kind who would make bad judgment calls about this because she has been trained in subjects pertaining to human behavior and psychology. It's like expecting Wash to make a rookie mistake about piloting Serenity.
And there is still no motivation for Nandi to try and secretly manipulate them like this when she could just openly ask them.
Overall your theory is just too improbable because it bends logic and characterisation too much.
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Well, I never really said I believed it over much. It's just something I wonder about.
I know you don't really want to discuss it anymore, so I'll try to drop it too now.
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Nah, really, I apologize for getting all obsessive about it. :)
Have a nice day, anyways!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I mean, seriously, Mal and Inara could never look back on the moment when they got together without thinking about Mal sleeping with Nandi.
Which hooks precisely into an earlier point I made: that after having slept with Nandi, Mal basically ruined their mutual little dance. There had always been this 'rogue-man-looking-down-on-upper-class-but-clumsiliy-respecting-her-anyway' vs. 'high-class-lady-finding-his-world-not-up-to-standards-of-her-usual-outings-but-secretely-being-very-fond-of-her-life-onboard-serenity-anyway' thingy in the air, possibly allowing for a happy ending. After Mal slept with Nandi, it's like suddenly the music stopped, and they both realized the futility of going on playing their mutual game.
Also, how immature are Mal and Inara really? Been reading a lot 'bout that on this thread. But, in earnest, let he who is without issues cast the first stone! I mean, if folks were generally taken to handling relationships in a rational, mature manner, forth-coming and clear in what they wish to express, and doing so politely, without snarky reproaches, nicely sitting around the table, openly talking about what bothers them, then what relationship would ever suffer or be strained? In fact, I'd say it's rather rare, if not extremely so, to see two people that mature. I forgot her name, but there was this American psychiatrist who once said that humans, on a whole, don't even know how to have sex with each other properly (meaning, though a very basic function, it's often plagued by power-issues, shame, obsessiveness, shyness, guilt, etc.). Her words struck me as particularly true. I think I'd be hard-pressed to find a couple that's mature on a physical, emotional, and psychological level, all at the same time, and eloquent enough to express their possible grievances in such a manner that they'd be ironed-out on the spot, or nearly so. I mean, Mal is scarred by his war. And Inara? Obviously she's got issues too, be it that she's perhaps more refined in hiding them (even to herself!).
I'm not even sure I'd want Mal and Inara all mature, as that would probably mean they've either evolved to being the next Buddha, or their lives are simply too uneventful to put to film. In a way, I like them marred, if that means there's stuff to work out and potential for human growth and healing. Which is why I like the "Good answer" bit in the BDM. Mal -- to stay with the terminology -- is still not 'mature' enough to flat-out say he wants her to stay (and Inara vice versa, for that matter). So maybe they're both kinda clumsily working towards something obvious. Or maybe they're exactly where they ought to be.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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