Rewriting Shindig
POSTED BY: DMI
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:25
VIEWED: 21001
PAGE 8 of 11
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Originally posted by PhoenixRose:Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
As to why Inara rejected his offer (which was clearly painful for Mal)
Inara is fighting the growing ties between them.
She quite clearly is, which has always made me kind of confused when I've seen people talk about how Mal 'betrayed' her in Heart of Gold. She's very cold to him about their relationship, quite deliberately, and shortly thereafter a gorgeous, tough woman gives him some very warm attention. He has feelings for Inara, but there's nothing really established between them. What would most people have done? He's still concerned about her reaction, and she shows nothing of the pain she's feeling, channeling it into a snark and then finding a place to cry. I always found her behavior rather immature, while the general opinion I've seen is that Mal was selfish and insensitive. He wasn't the one trained to pick up on the subtlest hints to mood. He knows only what he hears. Inara was driving him away, and then she was so hurt she'd succeeded and so unsure what to do about it and the relationship in general that she left.
Yeah, but you can't put all of this on Inara. If you call her immature, you have to call Mal... uh, twice as immature? He has this weird schism in his head about Inara and her job, saying he respects one but not the other. So either he thinks she is a complete moron who can't see the (supposed) hypocrisy she's living, or he's in a strange world where a person's whole-hearted choices have nothing to do with who they are. Both would make you question just how Mal understands love. Plus, he's making it very clear that his "respect" for her is not really worth being actually treated with respect. He certainly enjoys humiliating her in front of others and can never just shuttup about her job. It's like the Inara in his head is the madonna and her job is the whore. Cannot compute.
Sure, WE know his real feelings, and there are glimpses about him accepting her job occasionally, but there is really no reason for Inara to assume that this thing between them would end in anything but painful catastrophe.
I find it kind of hypocritical to fault Inara for not falling into Mal's arms whenever he deigns to show a softer side, when Mal isn't really making any effort himself, save for rare moments of wanting to play her hero or being actually faced with the potential for loss. Heroics mean very little in terms of a relationship surviving. Everyday respect does.
Inara chooses herself over some potentially doomed fling with a guy who doesn't really know what he wants with her most of the time. For a time she thinks she can do that while staying on the ship she loves, but it turns out watching Mal move on hurts too much, so she logically decides to go.
I don't find that immature.
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Refusal to accept or confront your feelings is pretty immature. They both do that dance, I never said they didn't. In the context of their relationship they both acted like teenagers, only snarkier, most of the time. In the context of Heart of Gold, though, I really can't condemn Mal for his actions or feel much sympathy for Inara after they've been doing the old push-and-pull for all those months and she decides to shut him out so completely. I just can't. I never said she should fall into his arms, I actually think she shouldn't. I just think that, after all the time she spent acting like she wanted to, and vice-versa, their absolute refusal to discuss their own tension and perhaps why they shouldn't fall into each other's arms was a much less mature choice than constant snarking and then fleeing. I understand that it's entertainment and there's going to be some drama, but I actually think that a quiet conversation about how it wouldn't work out and why could have been pretty heartwrenching if it was done right.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Refusal to accept or confront your feelings is pretty immature.
I think at this point Inara has. She just underestimates their impact. Her actions through the series are pretty consistent. She has one slip: kissing Mal in OMR. But she treats it as that, a slip.
There are plenty of situations where you have to confront your feelings privately, rather than making it a round-table discussion, and that's a perfectly rational way of dealing with them.
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In the context of Heart of Gold, though, I really can't condemn Mal for his actions or feel much sympathy for Inara after they've been doing the old push-and-pull for all those months and she decides to shut him out so completely. I just can't.
No one is saying you have to condemn Mal. He betrayed his own values, not Inara, since clearly he feels guilty but is pretty aware she has no actual claim on him.
He hasn't really made a sincere effort to show Inara his feelings, he'd rather escape into the arms of a less complicated woman. His good right, but then I can't feel much sympathy for him when Inara chooses to escape into the arms of a less complicated life.
It's as you say, equal opportunity retreat?
If Mal had spent any time thinking, he would have seen Inara's declaration coming a mile away, really. He hurts her, Inara hits back and then retreats. It's a pattern. Attempts to be sincere with her once that pattern is engaged have never worked, she'll only retreat more politely. (See the sword practice scene in Shindig.) Mal just has a really messed up sense of when to show his feelings: when she won't care to hear them.
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I just think that, after all the time she spent acting like she wanted to, and vice-versa, their absolute refusal to discuss their own tension and perhaps why they shouldn't fall into each other's arms was a much less mature choice than constant snarking and then fleeing.
The problem is that it's not a done deal. The suspicion that it's doomed is at war with the suspicion that it could be wonderful, which is the entire point of their conflict. They see the potential, they see the obstacles and they are scared and choose not to pursue. They prioritise their independence, both of them.
Mal flees into the shield of calling her a whore, Inara snarks back and retreats, Mal pretends he's the only one being pushed away, Inara ultimately flees back to her life. The snarking and fleeing is who they both are at this point in their lives. If they had the insight to have a mature conversation about their relationship, they would have the insight to realise how their respective "flaws" don't really bother them. Mal would let her be a Companion, Inara would let Mal be a petty thief and they'd be happy. These are people who are afraid of their mutual potential, they are conflicted. For good reasons, because we know Mal is traumatised by loss, and we know weird things are going on in Inara's past.
If they could solve their conflict easily, there would be no conflict in the first place, you know?
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Hey, Rouka, I think the word you're trying to think of to describe Mal is "infantile." :)
Although. I don't recall him ever deliberately trying to publicly humiliate her...
Oh wait, the scene in the pilot, with Book. But I'm not sure that's cut-and-dry. He was in a mean mood on account of Badger, wanted to make the preacher uncomfortable and rile Inara by the usual means, but didn't take into account that Book wasn't already familiar with their game. It was poorly handled by Mal all around, and Inara's words to him telling him that he stepped over a line apparently made him feel guilty enough that he sent Book with some food for her as an apology.
My impression is that he normally doesn't behave that way when introducing Inara to strangers. The other times I remember that he embarrasses her are inadvertent (getting into a duel because he doesn't know the customs of the upper class) or he does so privately, as in Our Mrs. Reynolds.
I don't really classify the sniping they do to each other as that either.
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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hey, Rouka, I think the word you're trying to think of to describe Mal is "infantile." :)
Not infantile, really. :) I reserve that for Kaylee when she gets huffy about Simon.
Mal is more ...selectively hypocritical. He doesn't seem to register that his words to Inara have an effect, a long-term one, but he gets all wounded when Inara hits back or rejects his advances. His need to be defensive, to use "whore" as a weapon to protect his fragile heart seems so ingrained that it doesn't register as extremely discouraging behavior to him.
It's a bit pathetic, mostly tragic, but not really infantile. :)
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Although. I don't recall him ever deliberately trying to publicly humiliate her...
Oh wait, the scene in the pilot, with Book. But I'm not sure that's cut-and-dry. He was in a mean mood on account of Badger, wanted to make the preacher uncomfortable and rile Inara by the usual means, but didn't take into account that Book wasn't already familiar with their game. It was poorly handled by Mal all around, and Inara's words to him telling him that he stepped over a line apparently made him feel guilty enough that he sent Book with some food for her as an apology.
My impression is that he normally doesn't behave that way when introducing Inara to strangers. The other times I remember that he embarrasses her are inadvertent (getting into a duel because he doesn't know the customs of the upper class) or he does so privately, as in Our Mrs. Reynolds.
I don't really classify the sniping they do to each other as that either.
Okay, you are correct, I overstated that bit. He doesn't want to publicly humiliate her, really. :) But the rest still applies.
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Way I see it, it's not so much he doesn't think his words effect her, he wouldn't keep poking at her if they didn't. She's a high class lady; he can't imagine her caring in the long run about insults or opinions from someone in a much lower position on the social totem pole.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Way I see it, it's not so much he doesn't think his words effect her, he wouldn't keep poking at her if they didn't. She's a high class lady; he can't imagine her caring in the long run about insults or opinions from someone in a much lower position on the social totem pole.
It's that long-term-effect I'm talking about, though, and it's exactly as you say. He just assumes that the insults wouldn't bother Inara long-term, as if they don't send a somewhat consistent - if false - message.
It might make sense if they hadn't formed a friendship, if Inara wasn't actually quite involved in the crew's fate, but she is, so his ignorance of this long-term effect he would have on his friend Inara by regularly insulting her, regardless of social class, is not quite natural. His few but sincere attempts at forging a closer connection (Shindig, HoG) demonstrate that he doesn't see an unbridgeable social distance, not really. He wouldn't even try, otherwise.
I think this blindness to his own effect is a bit willful, born out of fear, because disapproving of her life choices and rudely telling her so is his best defense against Inara. If he was honest with himself about his effect and stopped insulting/hurting her, he'd be facing tougher questions.
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Hmm, true enough. Long term there's an effect that he's just ignoring, and that ignoring is probably another defense mechanism along the lines of 'She's not interested, doesn't care. Good.'
I can believe there might be a little fear, sometimes, and definitely that he willfully pushes her away. I think he thinks he'd ruin her and she's out of his league.
The most he ever tried, before Nandi dropped those hints, was asking her not to accept Atherton's offer. That was his own quiet way of asking her to not leave him, but he definitely couldn't say that specifically, because what exactly would she be leaving? Nothing, in his mind.
Slightly off topic: does anyone else get the impression that getting the two of them to confront their feelings was ENTIRELY Nandi's purpose? She did have SOME companion training before she left. Guess we'll never know now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Slightly off topic: does anyone else get the impression that getting the two of them to confront their feelings was ENTIRELY Nandi's purpose? She did have SOME companion training before she left. Guess we'll never know now.
You mean, was it her intention? No way. If it had been, she would have failed spectacularly, as it got them to confront their feelings, but also destroyed any chance of actually having something together for foreseeable future. She didn't seem that short-sighted or stupid to me.
If this had been her plan, it'd also have been a dang selfish way to do it. Nandi is very clear to Mal that she had no idea Inara had feelings for him, implying she wouldn't have slept with him had she known, and during the evening conversation she has Mal revealing his feelings for Inara, albeit very slightly veiled, making the sex unnecessary for just that purpose.
I think Nandi sees her own inability to fully know Inara reflected in Mal, and the unexpected commonality blinds her to Inara's feelings for Mal. They share a night based on their hurt feelings for an absent third person that they both failed to read accurately, which I find beautifully poetic and tragic.
Was it her purpose in terms of the writers' intentions? Uh, yes, almost entirely. :)
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Well, if Nandi had lived, she might have been able to do some damage control and helped them bridge that gap; could be the way she left it hadn't been her intention.
Just seems strange to me that she'd spend the night with Mal, and not chatting up her dear old friend who has about zero experience aiding in childbirth. Makes me think maybe there was some ulterior motive there, that she's trying to help the both of them.
But your way is interesting too. You think she's attracted to Inara?
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