What has the Internet unleashed?

POSTED BY: emeraldtiara
UPDATED: Thursday, January 29, 2009 08:40
VIEWED: 6131
PAGE 2 of 4

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I don't think they're laughing at HER... But good point. It's not something to make light of, and everyone AFTER the "oh captain, you IDIOT, lol" moment seems to find the idea of Saffron having been given as a gift as something archaic and wrong. Except for Wash and Jayne, but Wash is quickly set straight by Zoe, and Jayne... Well, Jayne is Jayne.

Actually, isn't it Zoe who makes the "nubile little slave girl" comment?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
She does with words what a terrorist does with bombs. Dud'en mean she ain't got a cause, but a touch of subtlety might make the message go a little farther.

Ah, yes, but I imagine that both she and the terrorists share something else: reasons for being the way they are. It's not like they're ordinary folks who just happen to really enjoy bombs. (And I'll stop there to avoid armchair psychology.)

REDLAVA

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:54 AM

That's either a gag, or somebody has some severe emotional hang-ups that 10,000 hours of therapy will never solve.

The writer never seems to go any deeper that the literal translation of the words in the script. They never even try to interpret the real meaning behind the words.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:13 AM

YY,

yes, this is the sort of stuff I was refering to.
Feminists I have known ^ and still do know, represented by the opinions expressed here.
Modern female empowerment, imho, should seek a new term, to define itself, or without warning you may wake up to find these people calling themselves your leaders. Just a thought.

"you have no idea how easy a matter it is to offend a man who is on the look-out for offenses." - Frederick Douglas

[edit] RedLava: Feminists I know who view the world this way are real and not rare, it's not a gag. This comes from certain academic circles which cling to a victim mentality. IMHO, No one can never be empowered if they are determined to see themselves as the perpetual victim.

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
YY,

yes, this is the sort of stuff I was refering to.
Feminists I have known ^ and still do know, represented by the opinions expressed here.
Modern female empowerment, imho, should seek a new term, to define itself, or without warning you may wake up to find these people calling themselves your leaders. Just a thought.

I refuse to cede the word that accurately describes one of my positions just because it's been "tainted" by others. It would be like people giving up the word "conservative" to the ultra-right-wing loonies. And radical feminists wouldn't want to be my leaders, anyway, what with the fact that I'm not anti-prostitution, anti-pornography, or anti-BDSM.

Edit: If one is genuinely interested in less extreme feminist critiques, both negative and positive, of Firefly, I'd suggest checking out The Hathor Legacy:

http://thehathorlegacy.com/tag/firefly-serenity

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 3:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:

Actually, isn't it Zoe who makes the "nubile little slave girl" comment?

That was to shame Mal.

YINYANG

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 3:31 AM

I guess I'll have to re-watch OMR and see for myself, then. Though, with my school work, that may not be till Spring Break.

BIGRICHARD

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:00 AM

I'm fairly sure Zoey wasn't laughing at Mal being 'given a slave as payment', she was simply laughing at the fact that Mal was unaware of his new wife, who at this point, seemed like she herself was where she wanted to be. No one is laughing at the fact that Saffron is a slave who is traded off, they are laughing at the fact that Mal was so drunk that he was unaware of their ceremony, and Saffron hardly seems upset with the marriage, just the response she gets from Mal in his sobered state.

The point of the episode wasn't to say "haha! Women are objects! Lets trade them all for things we need!" it was showing us how unevolved some of the planets where, and how some people think. Most of the crew has nothing but respect for women (with the exception being Jayne), and Mal especially looks out for her, even trying to help her get a better life where she can take care of herself.

I still think her final paragraph about Wash and Zoey is ridiculous.

I had actually read this before, it doesn't feel particularly funny to me, it angers me. Joss puts all this effort in and then people like this sift through it to pull out any little thing that they can possibly find to make it seems offensive to someone.

"Aside from women being fuck toys, property and punching bags for the men, the women have very little importance in the series. I counted the amount of times women talk in the episode Serenity compared to the amount of times men talk. The result was unsurprising. Men: 458 Women: 175. Basically, this means that men direct the action and are active participants whereas women are merely observers and facilitators."

This is ridiculous. Women have little importance in the series? Brilliant. Well done. Yeah, I suppose we could just get rid of Inara, Zoey, Kaylee and River and the show/film would've been exactly the same.

Interesting that she never mentioned that the men seem vastly more flawed than the women, and the women seem generally smarter and nicer than the men. Or is that being feminist too? I have absolutely no idea anymore.

"In regards to her servicing the crew, she begins to service the Captain and the male passengers of the ship from day one. The following is an excerpt from the script of Serenity. Book is a black male character. He is a Preacher and disapproves of Inara’s ‘profession’.

BOOK Is this what life is, out here?

INARA Sometimes.

BOOK I've been out of the abbey two days, I've beaten a Lawman senseless, I've fallen in with criminals... I watched the captain shoot a man I swore to protect. And I'm not even sure if I think he was wrong.

INARA Shepherd...

He is shaking a bit, tearing up.

BOOK I believe I just... (a pained smile) I think I'm on the wrong ship.

INARA Maybe. Or maybe you're exactly where you ought to be.

He lowers his head. She puts her hand on it, a kind of benediction. We hold on them a second.

It is clear from the outset that a large part of Inara’s service involves addressing issues of male inadequacy and fulfilling many other emotional needs of her clients. The ability to do this IS a resource and it is therefore a service that Inara must perform. BUT Inara services all of the male passengers and the Captain in this way. She also services Kaylee but the relationship between them is a little more reciprocal. In any case, Mal makes it pretty obvious that he expects his emotional needs to be serviced by Inara and she willingly obliges. Mal also allows the male passengers to demand her emotional services and does not tell them to stop, despite the terms of his agreement with Inara. Inara is not paid by any of these men for her time, energy and emotional support."

So I assume that whoever wrote this article/blog/rubbish has never heard of FRIENDSHIP?

Anyway, I'm going to stop there before I get too worked up over it all.

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:10 AM

YinYang:

As a male who doesn't take women lightly, and who has never, ever considered himself the "owner" of them in any way, shape, or form, what I got from the whole Saffron-as-a-gift-and-wife thing was that they were laughing at the Cap'n's plight - imagine MAL, of all people, being "given" a wife! For one, he's not the kind to accept such a "gift" as she's not his to own, nor anyone else's to give away. For another, they're just laughing about the ludicrousness of the situation - the very idea that Mal would be worthy of such a "gift", or that he'd accept it if he were.

So, yeah, I can see where others think the crew are laughing at Saffron, but I never saw it that way. And before it's all said and done, I think the crew has a deep level of respect for her. And a hatred, of course, but a respect that she's that cunning and smart.

In a second or third season of Firefly, I can definitely see Saffron as one of the crew - like Jayne, one never to be completely trusted, but a crew member who can be very valuable to some of their plans...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:42 AM

Quote:

I refuse to cede the word that accurately describes one of my positions just because it's been "tainted" by others. It would be like people giving up the word "conservative" to the ultra-right-wing loonies.

Sorry, not meaning to argue, just point it out.
I would add these thoughts though:

They had it first. They are not the new feminism, you are. It's Their movement, with a history, and you're trying to reform it, and make it into something new.

Rush a**hole and co are the new conservatives. They're walking into a very old tradition and stamping on it. But they are only stamping on it here. Conservative in the rest of the world still means pretty much the same thing.

The feminism espoused there is very traditional, however appalling it may be. Ergo, the new feminists have tied themselves to the word that already has these people in it, and try to reinvent it for the better, and lose these other people. Good luck with that.

IMHO it's like joining the jihad to change its direction, ie., hopeless. I guess this is why I agreed to stay off the topic.

Oh, side note, just for the record. Not an attempt to change your mind, just an honest male perspective. What men who are trying to meet women wouldn't tell you. The world is full of self-described feminists. Colleges are full of self-described liberals. America is full of patriots. "The group of you" is the ultimate pitch. It's why people believe in democracy.

As for Joss: If I were to make a feminist criticism it would be: Why does almost every female character need a man to lean on? Just fanning the flames.

BIGRICHARD

Wednesday, January 28, 2009 5:15 AM

"As for Joss: If I were to make a feminist criticism it would be: Why does almost every female character need a man to lean on? Just fanning the flames."

I wouldn't say that's a feminist criticism, as I don't think it's every 'female' character. I think essentially all of Joss' characters need someone to lean on.

PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE