Since Obama was selected President, the market's done what ?

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Thursday, January 22, 2009 15:09
VIEWED: 7239
PAGE 1 of 1

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:10 AM

Gone down, some 19 % ( 9625.28 - 7552.29 )

HOPE for the future, the economy does NOT have.

I predict that Obama will HAVE to come out and make the following promises:

* No hike in Cap Gains taxes for the next year
* No increase in taxes for the top 1 % , not during such economic times as we're facing.
* No ban on off shore drilling

Obama is going to make at LEAST one of these promises. The question, will he do it immediately, with in the next week or 2, or will he let the country suffer , and wait until after he's inaugurated, so the impeding market rebound from these declarations will be viewed as occurring under his administration, and not Bush's.

If Obama makes NONE of these promises , then he'll go down as THE worst President since Carter, and his glorious rise will suffer a equally earth shattering crash.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:27 AM

WHO'S still president ???

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Is that a little fact that's escaped your notice, yet again ?

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
WHO'S still president ???

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Stock markets are a reflection of what the market thinks will happen in the future, not at present.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:35 AM

You mean like the lack of a bailout for the Big Three which caused the market to collapse today ?

WHO'S still president again ????

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You mean like the lack of a bailout for the Big Three which caused the market to collapse today ?

WHO'S still president again ????

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

That's a Congress issue, not the President's.

Strike Two.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:39 AM

President said - no bailout. Paulson said - no bailout.

WHO'S still president again ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

ANTHONYT

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:42 AM

Hello,

Long before the President-Elect was selected, I heard economists explain that we had 'not hit bottom yet' and 'things will get worse before they get better.'

Which is exactly what is happening.

I think you would be a wise observer if you waited to see what impact Obama's presidency actually has on the economy before assigning new interpretations to the pre-existing drought.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:42 AM

Oh, Bush is President now, but Obama was elected Pres , and ever since, the *edit * stock market has slid down hill.

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:46 AM

AnthonyT

I suspect the stock market was artificially propped up before the election. Since then, it's been left to go into free-fall as a parting gift from 'dubya' to Obama.

***************************************************************

This from the administration that LIED about the WH being trashed by Clinton and all the 'w's' being removed from keyboards.

ANTHONYT

Friday, November 21, 2008 12:52 AM

Hello,

While the last 8 years of economic policy clearly helped us to reach ill ends, I do not consider recent troubles to be a 'parting gift' from Bush any more than I think it is a 'welcome gift' from Obama. The economy was expected to worsen, and it has. When night follows day, I don't find new reasons for it.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

SIGNYM

Friday, November 21, 2008 1:17 AM

Well, certainly night is coming because Obama's been elected! Doncha get it??? It's the Democrat's fault! Because, yanno, under Bush the economy GREAT!!!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 1:22 AM

MMMMMmmmm ... many of us have been looking at government policy for several years now and predicting economic calamity. So I don't see it as a natural cycle any more than I saw Clinton's relatively good economy as a natural cycle. It's a result of policy - to be exact, Bush's specific policies of tax cuts for the wealthy, gutting of the middle class, and out of control government spending - and easily foreseen.

Read "The Price of Loyalty" and other books by ex-administration officials to understand that these policies were pre-selected as part of an agenda.

BTW - I never thought that an administration could jink (not jinx) the stock market, but it can.

Here's a summary co-authored from Autralia and Singapore:

This paper shows that in the almost four decades from January 1965 through to December 2003, US stock prices closely followed the four-year Presidential Election Cycle: in general, stock prices fell during the first half of a Presidency, reached a trough in the second year, rose during the second half of a Presidency, and reached a peak in the third or fourth year. This cyclical trend is found to hold for the greater part of the last ten administrations, starting from President Lyndon Johnson to the present administration under President George W. Bush, particularly when the incumbent is a Republican. The empirical results suggest that the Republican Party may have greater cause to engage in active policy manipulation to win re-election than their Democratic counterparts. There is irony in that bullish runs in the stock market have tended to coincide with sub-periods under Democratic administrations. The existence of the Presidential Election Cycle shown in the paper may constitute an anomaly in the US stock market, which could be useful for investors.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 1:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, certainly night is coming because Obama's been elected! Doncha get it??? It's the Democrat's fault! Because, yanno, under Bush the economy GREAT!!!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

The stock market broke 14,000 under Bush, and with out any bogus, inflated dot com industry pushing it along. In fact, the market would have been higher, were it not for inflated oil prices.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 1:42 AM

That 'milestone' you are so proud of was what the value would have been at the time if it had JUST kept pace with inflation - after Clinton.

How about that - you're proud of a one time high that didn't even make money.

***************************************************************

How about that ROARING ! ON FIRE ! economy, Rap ?

SIGNYM

Friday, November 21, 2008 1:47 AM

Now, there you go again! Say it aint' so, rapo!

The selloff began in mid-2006.

The biggest finanacial crisis in 50 years started long before it was clear who was going to be elected.

Once again... very, very selected facts. I've been saying for months that things were going to fall apart quickly, and badly. I want you to know that I've been predicting a DEPRESSION looooong before Obama was elected. So if we fall into one, please don't go blaming Obama after-the fact. All of the pieces were there before he and McCain ever squared off for the Presidency.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:01 AM

rue,

You seem fixated w/ this whole " rate of inflation " b.s. Sorry, but real life happens, and not everything happens in a straight forward , linear manner. 9/11 happened. The dot com bubble busted. Neither are Bush's fault , and yet the market rose from 7,500 to over 14,000 under Bush.

For 5 yrs under Bush, the market rose steadily 7000 pts.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

MALBADINLATIN

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:02 AM

The stock market does not rise and fall, mostly fall, because Obama is assembling his cabinet. Congress and the Big three? Maybe.

How much would it suck to be a little weasel who wants his country to be financially destroyed for the gain of the Republican party.

Democrats are missing the opportunity to set Rahm Emanuel and his brother up on a fishing boat, with a couple dozen cinder blocks, 5 gunny sacks, and some rope.

After Jan 20, you won't have to listen to them anymore.

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:08 AM

Quote:
Democrats are missing the opportunity to set Rahm Emanuel and his brother up on a fishing boat, with a couple dozen cinder blocks, 5 gunny sacks, and some rope.

Mal

You want to murder Rahm Emanuel and his brother ?

What for ??

And who else do you want to murder ?

Seriously, seek some professional help!

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:11 AM

Quote:
For 5 yrs under Bush, the market rose steadily 7000 pts.

And then started to fall....

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:17 AM

"You seem fixated w/ this whole " rate of inflation " b.s."

Well, inflation determines whether your investment is making real money, or losing it. Maybe you don't care whether your investments are keeping up with inflation or not, but most people are smart enough to do that.

During Bush's administration the DOW has NEVER kept up with inflation with the exception of one brief peak. Now maybe you want to explain away 2001 (9/11) though the DOW recovered within months. And maybe you want to explain away 2002 with the dot.com 'bubble (though those stocks were NASDAQ stocks not DOW stocks).

But what about 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 ? What explains the stock market failure over all that time ? (I won't ask about 2008 because we already know what an unmitigated disaster Bush made of it.)

And by comparison, oddly enough, during the Clinton administration the DOW outpaced inflation year on year - not as a one or two year anomaly, but consistently.

You can pretend that Clinton's consistent 8 year success was bs, just like Bush's consistent 8 year failure is bs --- but most people have already asked themselves if they were better off under Clinton or Bush. And they've figured out the answer was NOT Bush. Or his policies.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

KWICKO

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:42 AM

Quote:

The stock market broke 14,000 under Bush, and with out any bogus, inflated dot com industry pushing it along. In fact, the market would have been higher, were it not for inflated oil prices.

Yes, it broke 14,000 under Bush... and now it's busted below 8,000 - ALSO under Bush.

The economy was in a deep tailslide well before the election, and even in the days before Obama was "selected", you were still maintaining that McCain would win. So was the collapse a reaction to the possibility of McCain winning?

By the way... at the moment, Bush is holding his position as the worst president since Hoover waltzed us into the Great Depression.

MALBADINLATIN

Friday, November 21, 2008 3:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Mal

You want to murder Rahm Emanuel and his brother ?

What for ??

And who else do you want to murder ?

Seriously, seek some professional help!

Why would I want 5 gunny sacks purchased for Rahm Emanuel and his brother if I wanted to kill them. Where are your critical reasoning skills? read it again!

Ooops! I almost fell into your clever ruse and diclosed the fact that I want to murder.....nobody!!!! Hah!

Oh yeah!....I am professional help.

I'm a counselor.

Trolls against McCain

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 3:02 AM

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 3:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Mal

You want to murder Rahm Emanuel and his brother ?

What for ??

And who else do you want to murder ?

Seriously, seek some professional help!
Why would I want 5 gunny sacks purchased for Rahm Emanuel and his brother if I wanted to kill them. Where are your critical reasoning skills? read it again!

Ooops! I almost fell into your clever ruse and diclosed the fact that I want to murder.....nobody!!!! Hah!

Oh yeah!....I am professional help.

I'm a counselor.

Who counsels the counselors when they need help ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 3:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

The stock market broke 14,000 under Bush, and with out any bogus, inflated dot com industry pushing it along. In fact, the market would have been higher, were it not for inflated oil prices.

Yes, it broke 14,000 under Bush... and now it's busted below 8,000 - ALSO under Bush.

The economy was in a deep tailslide well before the election, and even in the days before Obama was "selected", you were still maintaining that McCain would win. So was the collapse a reaction to the possibility of McCain winning?

By the way... at the moment, Bush is holding his position as the worst president since Hoover waltzed us into the Great Depression.

All thanks to the Democrats and their take over in '06. Nice job.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 3:43 AM

In 2006 the Democrats got a slim majority in the House and broke even with repubicans in the Senate. Then during 2006 - 2008 the repubicans filibustered EVERYTHING - http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/the_filibuster
everything_minor.php

But let's assume for a moment the Democrats had some actual power in Congress starting 2006. Did you even look at the DOW chart ? Go ahead. Look at it. Tell me what it did in 2006. Then come back and tell me how wrong, wrong, wrong you were to attribute anything good to the Democrats in 2006 ...

****************************************************

Silence is consent.

ROCKETJOCK

Friday, November 21, 2008 4:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, Bush is President now, but Obama was elected Pres , and ever since, the *edit * stock market has slid down hill.

So, by your "logic", since gasoline prices have gone down since Obama's election, his being elected must have caused gas prices to go down? Nothing to do with market forces, nope not at all.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm being sarcastic.

This kind of "logic" is called Post Hoc Ergo Proctor Hoc, the assumption that because one observed phenomenon occurred before another observed phenomenon, that the first caused the second.

It's a classic fallacy. Example: "I ate eggs for breakfast, and then my car broke down. This proves eating eggs causes cars to malfunction."

Frankly, Aurapor, this post just seems kind of mean-spirited, in a dog-in-the-manger sense. For crap's sake, He hasn't even taken office yet! What, do you think the man has some kind of magic powers?

"I say it's spinach, and I say the hell with it!"

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

SIGNYM

Friday, November 21, 2008 4:58 AM

And rapo, I noticed you've avoided my prediction of the coming depression like it was the plague.

Have I, or have I not, had this tagline for a long time?

I refer you to Nouriel Roubini at www.rgemonitor.com who calendared all of the steps of the coming collapse in FEBRUARY. This was well before the Democratic convention in August and the Republican convention in September. Long b4 peeps knew who was going to be running for President. So, how do you explain all that?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, November 21, 2008 5:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Gone down, some 19 % ( 9625.28 - 7552.29 )

HOPE for the future, the economy does NOT have.

I predict that Obama will HAVE to come out and make the following promises:

* No hike in Cap Gains taxes for the next year
* No increase in taxes for the top 1 % , not during such economic times as we're facing.
* No ban on off shore drilling

Obama is going to make at LEAST one of these promises. The question, will he do it immediately, with in the next week or 2, or will he let the country suffer , and wait until after he's inaugurated, so the impeding market rebound from these declarations will be viewed as occurring under his administration, and not Bush's.

If Obama makes NONE of these promises , then he'll go down as THE worst President since Carter, and his glorious rise will suffer a equally earth shattering crash.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

KWICKO

Friday, November 21, 2008 5:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html

Well, wouldja lookit that, Rappy - the market peaked right after the Democrats "took over" in '06. So if you're going to blame any of the declines on Obama's being elected, you have to give the Democrats credit for the peak, too.

As usual, you have no case, and you have no facts - not even the ones you pulled out of your ass.

It says something about you, Rap, that you think an equal split in the Senate equals a Democratic "takeover", though. Guess when it comes right down to it, you don't think the Republicans are up to an even fight, eh?

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, November 21, 2008 9:25 AM

FYI, I hate that bastard Rahmbo - but Obama is stuck with him as a sop to AIPAC for the money and favors required to climb the political ladder, which means EITHER candidate would have been stuck with him, or someone like him, as a condition of needing their assistance to get anywhere politically.

Which is, frankly, both disturbing and disgusting, that a foreign countries proven intel-op with a history of espionage and sabotage against us, has so much power over our own political system.

Although, it does seem that the position given to ole Rahmbo is generally where you put someone you're stuck with and forced to give a high office to make people holding you up happy, but don't dare give a REAL job, as witnessed when the current administration shovelled Bolton in there after his absolutely humiliating performance at the UN.

Makes sense, when you think about it, keep em close where you can watch em and hold a tight grip on the leash, instead of letting them out of your sight to do whatever.

After what Dov Zackheim pulled, I wouldn't want any of AIPACs little flunkyboys out of MY sight, neither!

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

SIGNYM

Friday, November 21, 2008 2:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And rapo, I noticed you've avoided my prediction of the coming depression like it was the plague. Have I, or have I not, had this tagline for a long time? I refer you to Nouriel Roubini at www.rgemonitor.com who calendared all of the steps of the coming collapse in FEBRUARY. This was well before the Democratic convention in August and the Republican convention in September. Long b4 peeps knew who was going to be running for President. So, how do you explain all that?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

Aw c'mon man. I deal in FACTS! So deal with 'em yourself!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

AURAPTOR

Friday, November 21, 2008 4:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And rapo, I noticed you've avoided my prediction of the coming depression like it was the plague.

Have I, or have I not, had this tagline for a long time?

I refer you to Nouriel Roubini at www.rgemonitor.com who calendared all of the steps of the coming collapse in FEBRUARY. This was well before the Democratic convention in August and the Republican convention in September. Long b4 peeps knew who was going to be running for President. So, how do you explain all that?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

Uh, duh. Dems have been down talking the economy since Jan 20, 2001. Even in the midst of a 5 yr steady, strong expansion, they were hyper exaggerating pockets of slow economy ( like Michigan ) as if it was Bush's fault, when in fact , it was all their fault, and none of Bush's.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

WASHNWEAR

Friday, November 21, 2008 4:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Oh yeah!....I am professional help.

I'm a counselor.

Trolls against McCain

Heh - sorry to distract from the overall tone of the thread, but the above reminds me of part of a stand-up bit I heard a few years ago (believe it was the late, great Richard Jeni) -

Quote:
Man (or woman) addressing his (or her) psychotic girl (or boy) -friend: I need to see other people...

Psychotic girl (or boy) -friend: I AM other people!

Hmmm - that may have much ado 'bout nothing...sorry...

It was like while the good may die young, the good comedians die younger when we got here!

GEEZER

Friday, November 21, 2008 5:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You mean like the lack of a bailout for the Big Three which caused the market to collapse today ?

A bi-partisan bill to address the bailout was kept off the Senate floor by Majority Leader Reed(D). He wants a plan from the automakers which addresses his concerns. Unfortunately, he hasn't gotten very specific about what his concerns are.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

RUE

Friday, November 21, 2008 5:20 PM

"5 yr steady, strong expansion"

You really need to look at that stock market chart.

Now, if you want to see an 8 year steady strong expansion look under Clinton. If you want to see a series of down then up then sideways then up then sideways then down wanderings, look under Bush. Go ahead. Study it.

More than that, you need to pay attention to SignyM. Now, I have the basics, and I was talking down the economy after the first budget cuts and the reckless spending on the Iraq 'war'. But SignyM is especially thoughtful, has detailed information, and adopted the exact right sig line before this crisis became apparent. You could stand to learn from someone who knows more than you.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:54 AM

Hello,

Today the market experienced a rebound. Because the market responds to imminent presidential runs, we may assume that the rebound is due to the fact that Obama's presidency is nearer.

--Anthony

P.S. I am being faceituous.

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

KWICKO

Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:44 AM

Quote:
P.S. I am being faceituous.

Not anecdotal?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:31 AM

Hello,

I thought it might be entertaining to perform necromancy on this thread from time to time.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

WHOZIT

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I thought it might be entertaining to perform necromancy on this thread from time to time.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Necromancy means to "Summon Demons", is that why Barry picked Hillary for Secretary of State?

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

KWICKO

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:51 AM

Hey... the market's back up again today, and was up last Friday.

'Rap, is that because of Obama or Bush?

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:51 AM

Hello,

I intended Necromancy in relation to its origins, and not its Renaissance re-interpretation.

Roughly "Divining from the spirits of the dead" I was summoning the 'dead' (thread) in order to divine additional truths from it.

Your contribution to which, Whozit, dismays me.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:08 AM

52 months of straight job expansion. And no phony dot com bubble to help usher along the economy.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:21 AM

Hello,

Wasn't there a 'phony real estate bubble?'

One, I might add, that recently burst, and began a cascade effect requiring trillions of dollars to stabilize the economy?

Am I mistaken on any point?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Wasn't there a 'phony real estate bubble?'

One, I might add, that recently burst, and began a cascade effect requiring trillions of dollars to stabilize the economy?

Am I mistaken on any point?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

Yes, the phony real estate bubble from Obama's work with ACORN, forcing government (taxpayers) to prop up mortages for those who cannot make payments. Now he'll fix his multitudes of mistakes, Hah!
Over the weekend the recounts of Saxby Chambliss and Al Franken both showed gains for the conservatives, thus the market responded.
If Franken wins recount, expect the market to drop.
Market gained Monday, even with Nikkei closed for holiday. Tuesday Asian markets gaining again.

SWISH

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Over the weekend the recounts of Saxby Chambliss and Al Franken both showed gains for the conservatives, thus the market responded.
If Franken wins recount, expect the market to drop.

Yes, and as pirate numbers dwindled, global warming took off, showing clearly that global warming is caused by the end of piracy.

So, Jewelstraitfan, please save our world by donning a big triangular hat and sailing the wide open seas looking for plunder!

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Wasn't there a 'phony real estate bubble?'

One, I might add, that recently burst, and began a cascade effect requiring trillions of dollars to stabilize the economy?

Am I mistaken on any point?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

What caused the housing bubble ? Risky financing which allowed those who didn't have ample means to get loans regardless. Those who lent the $$ can be held responsible, but the fault is not theirs alone. Those who did the lending did so not just on blind greed. Much of the pressure to lend $$ to low income / risky applicants came via the threat of lawsuits because of organizations like ACORN pressured Congress to pass laws forcing banks to basically make those bad loans in the first place. Blame rest also on those in Congress who allowed an atmosphere in the lending industry to exist which offered up a false sense of security, based on the impression that, even if the risky loans went into default, that the Fed Gov't would be there to bail out the lending institutions.

So, w/ the dot com bubble, we saw a brand new industry arise which took a while for the market to adjust to , which it finally did. With the housing boom, we know the reason why it was so inflated, but because of political correctness, no one wants to accept blame, and so we just talk around it, like it wasn't there. Bush tried to get Congress to add more regulations on the likes of Fannie and Freddie, but the Democrats resisted. I'm unaware of anything Clinton did which similarly tried to reign in the dot com bubble, before it burst.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:58 PM

I trust you 're kidding per the Senate races in GA and MN. Here in GA, the run-off election is underway, early voting having started, and Dec 2 being the actual election day. There is no recount, that I'm aware of.

In MN, they oddly seem to keep finding more and more " misplaced " ballots, all for Franken, in the backs of cars , storage closets....but none for Coleman. Very curious, indeed.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 4:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I want you to know that I've been predicting a DEPRESSION looooong before Obama was elected. So if we fall into one, please don't go blaming Obama after-the fact. All of the pieces were there before he and McCain ever squared off for the Presidency.

I remember you sayin' that even before I loosely predicted much of the economic landscape of DARK ANGEL was gonna come to pass, you were so right on, I also remember 'Rappy poo pooin' it, pointing to our fearless leader & our freight train economy.

Short & selective memories are a gift from the gods, I guess

The recalling Chrisisall

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:51 PM

Quote:
What caused the housing bubble ?

1) Artificially low interest rates, leading to
2) Rapid increase in housing prices, leading to
3) Risky financing based on investor greed,
4) Unrestrained by regulation.

Like a lot of big screwups (sinking of the Titanic, unsuccessful military operations etc.) it's usually a multifactor problem which often includes inadequate, ignored, or disabled safety systems.

Quote:
Those who did the lending did so not just on blind greed. Much of the pressure to lend $$ to low income / risky applicants came via the threat of lawsuits because of organizations like ACORN pressured Congress to pass laws forcing banks to basically make those bad loans in the first place.

Bull. Shit. You keep repeating the same crap over and over and over, and you have yet to come up with a single piece of evidence to support this view. Even AnthonyT, who worked making loans, said it didn't happen that way.

If you can come up with ONE example where the government "forced" a bank to make a bad loan, I'd be amazed.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:19 PM

Rappy, your desperation to trash Obama and elevate your hero Dubya is laughable. You couldn't be any more transparent if you tried. I pity you at this point.

On the upside, your threads are as easy to identify by title as PirateNews now, so thanks for that.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:31 PM

So c'mon Rappy, come up with ONE example where "the government" forced a bank to make a bad loan.

One single, real example.

I dare ya.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

RIVERLOVE

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:36 PM

They didn't have to "force" anything.

They WANTED to make the loans! They didn't give a crap about nothing, knowing they could bundle the toxic loans up and sell it to Fannie or somebody else. No one forced greed and fraud on anybody. They all got intoxicated from the smell of their bonuses and raises.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:38 PM

But in Rappy land, Obama was personally standing there, with a gun to their heads, forcing them to make bad loans, while they protested the whole time.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

KWICKO

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:27 PM

In 'Rappy World, ACORN is so freaking bad-ass that they can singlehandedly overthrow fair elections, topple economies, and destroy nations, all without anyone ever being the wiser.

Sounds like maybe instead of sending our troops into Iraq, we should have juse sent ACORN, eh?

Oh, and Signy? Don't waste your time waiting for a response on that example of a "shotgun mortgage" - it's like the mythical "welfare queen" the right always goes on about, the non-working mother of 16 who drives a brand new Cadillac and sells crack while cashing her welfare check and buying booze with food stamps. It's a scare tactic, but they've never actually provided a real-world example of this. But they all know a guy who knows a guy who knows her...

Now I just need a picture of Obama holding a gun to a banker's head, saying "If you don't give black people loans, I'll shoot this banker."

Mike

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:53 PM

Well, I noticed that Rappy never DID give me his definition of a "depression", and for the life of me I can't imagine why not: it was the easiest question I've ever asked him, or likely ever will!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 8:14 PM

Because answering the question might have required that Rappy back down on something, or heaven forbid, admit to being wrong just once - and that is simply something he refuses to do.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So c'mon Rappy, come up with ONE example where "the government" forced a bank to make a bad loan.

One single, real example.

I dare ya.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

Like I have access to private bank loans? An absurd claim on your part, but the fact remains, banks were forced to make riskly loans or face legal action from the likes of ACORN if they didn't I dont care that you don't want to face reality, because it so pissse you off that I'm right and your extremist far Left wing assshole buddies in Congress are to blame for all this, but guess what ? I DON'T FUCKING CARE WHAT YOU THINK!

Oh, wait....here's a case which fits your bill. Take a gander at THIS gem !!

Quote:
THE seeds of todays financial meltdown lie in the Community Reinvestment Act - a law passed in 1977 and made riskier by unwise amendments and regulatory rulings in later decades.

CRA was meant to encourage banks to make loans to high-risk borrowers, often minorities living in unstable neighborhoods. That has provided an opening to radical groups like ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) to abuse the law by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in subprime loans to often uncreditworthy poor and minority customers.

Any bank that wants to expand or merge with another has to show it has complied with CRA - and approval can be held up by complaints filed by groups like ACORN.

In fact, intimidation tactics, public charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansion have enabled ACORN to extract hundreds of millions of dollars in loans and contributions from Americas financial institutions .

The Woods Fund report makes it clear Obama was fully aware of the intimidation tactics used by ACORNs Madeline Talbott in her pioneering efforts to force banks to suspend their usual credit standards. Yet he supported Talbott in every conceivable way. He trained her personal staff and other aspiring ACORN leaders, he consulted with her extensively, and he arranged a major boost in foundation funding for her efforts.

And, as the leader of another charity, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Obama channeled more funding Talbotts way - ostensibly for education projects but surely supportive of ACORNs overall efforts.

Case Name
Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank Fair Housing/Lending/Insurance
Docket / Court 94 C 4094 ( N.D. Ill. ) FH-IL-0011
State/Territory Illinois
Case Summary
Plaintiffs filed their class action lawsuit on July 6, 1994, alleging that Citibank had engaged in redlining practices in the Chicago metropolitan area in violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), 15 U.S.C. 1691; the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3601-3619; the Thirteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution; and 42 U.S.C. 1981, 1982. Plaintiffs alleged that the Defendant-bank rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories. Plaintiffs sought injunctive relief, actual damages, and punitive damages.

U.S. District Court Judge Ruben Castillo certified the Plaintiffs suit as a class action on June 30, 1995. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 322 (N.D. Ill. 1995). Also on June 30, Judge Castillo granted Plaintiffs motion to compel discovery of a sample of Defendant-banks loan application files. Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank, 162 F.R.D. 338 (N.D. Ill. 1995).

The parties voluntarily dismissed the case on May 12, 1998, pursuant to a settlement agreement.
Plaintiffs Lawyers Alexis, Hilary I. (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Childers, Michael Allen (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Clayton, Fay (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Cummings, Jeffrey Irvine (Illinois)
FH-IL-0011-7500 | FH-IL-0011-7501 | FH-IL-0011-9000
Love, Sara Norris (Virginia)
FH-IL-

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, I noticed that Rappy never DID give me his definition of a "depression", and for the life of me I can't imagine why not: it was the easiest question I've ever asked him, or likely ever will!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

It is easy, but I'm still not playing your game. Deal w/ it.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:12 PM

What "game"? The request that you reveal your definition of a depression before the fact? The request that you bring up one specific, actual example of the government interference which you claim.... ad infinitum ... caused this economic meltdown?

It's called "conversation" or "discussion".

I get the feeling you're here either to proselytize or to fight, but nothing else.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

I get the feeling you're here either to proselytize or to fight, but nothing else.

Wrong on both accounts. But thanks for playing.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:29 PM

Ah, scrolling up, I see you presented a story about a case agaisnt Citibank.

So, I went to that hotbed of liberalism -SNOPES and they said the story was FALSE. Specifically:

Quote:
This item seeks to dump much of the blame for America's current economic woes on Barack Obama by claiming that as a young lawyer, Obama filed a lawsuit requiring financial institutions to lend money to "poor people" and
"others who could not show proof that they could pay the money back." Although there is a (very) vague element of fact underneath this politicking, the piece quoted above is woefully wrong in all its particulars. The 1994 case of Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank had nothing to do with requiring lenders to do business with people "who could not show proof that they could pay the money back."

The case was a class-action lawsuit against Citibank Federal Savings on behalf of a black Chicago woman, Selma Buycks-Roberson, who claimed she was unfairly denied a mortgage based on her race. The lawsuit sought to end the practice of redlining, a discriminatory practice by which banks, insurance companies, and other business institutions refuse or limit loans, mortgages, insurance, etc., based solely on the geographic area in which the applicant lives (a practice that commonly excludes minorities in inner-city neighborhoods, regardless of their income or ability to pay). Specifically, the lawsuit charged that Citibank "rejected loan applications of minority applicants while approving loan applications filed by white applicants with similar financial characteristics and credit histories."

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:33 PM

Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:42 PM

Rap

The case couldn't be won on somebody's say-so. They had to get actual company documentation to prove their case.

Really, now you're just being a silly goose.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:47 PM

Now?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:51 PM

Quote:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that

"They"? You mean Snopes?

Oh, I see. Snopes is part of that vast liberal-leaning media conspiracy? And Obama has fingers into a webite that discusses such hot topics as cell phone "do not call" registries and South American spiders stowing away in airline toilet seats?

Riiiight

*backs away slowly*

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Rap

The case couldn't be won on somebody's say-so. They had to get actual company documentation to prove their case.

Really, now you're just being a silly goose.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Financial Meltdown: Where Does the Buck Stop?
Monday, September 22, 2008
By Matt Cover

Traders surround a post on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Sept. 19, 2008. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)(CNSNews.com) – In taking over American International Group (AIG) last week, the federal government took control of its first insurance company and engineered its fourth bailout of a major financial institution this year, further injecting itself into the economic life of the nation while catalyzing heated debate on causes and cures.

Both presidential candidates have said the bailouts of AIG, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Bear Stearns were necessary measures. Republican John McCain blamed greedy Wall Street tycoons, while Democrat Barack Obama blamed failed Republican economic policies.

According to Sheldon Richman, editor of The Freeman and an economist with the Foundation for Economic Education, government policy is to blame.

“The biggest culprit, I think, is the implicit guarantee the government has always issued to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,” Richman said. “Something like 80% of the mortgages these days are held or backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac,” he said, and “they get special treatment from the government like no other lender gets.”

These factors, particularly the government guarantee, have brought about our current financial crisis, said Richman.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been able to buy bundles of home mortgages, or mortgage-backed securities, in massive quantities without real-world considerations of financial risk, because they could count on the federal government to bail them out if things went south.

“We don’t call them ‘Government Sponsored Enterprises’ for nothing,” Richman said.

Other economists reject this analysis. In a paper published this year by the Brookings Institution, economists Martin Neil Baily, Douglas W. Elmendorf, and Robert E. Litan argue that since “financial institutions are regulated and supervised by a bewildering array of federal and state authorities,” those regulators could and should have acted.

“Despite the limited authority of any specific regulators,” the economists said, “more should have been done to prevent the crisis.”

But lack of oversight is hardly the problem, Richman said, because “the financial industry is regulated all over the place.” In Richman’s analysis, it is precisely the government guarantee of Fannie and Freddie that is “short-circuiting” the market.”

That guarantee “removes market discipline,” emboldens banks to make bad loans, and encourages Fannie and Freddie to back them. This, Richman asserted, is a “moral hazard.”

“It’s like if I invite you to Vegas and say the winnings are all yours and I’ll cover your losses,” Richman said. “You’re going to have a great old time. On the other [hand], if you go by yourself and you know you’ve got to cover your losses, you’re going to behave differently, and that’s been the problem.”

Providing context, Richman said government policy laid the foundation of this crisis more than 30 years ago when Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977. This law forced banks to loan money to low-income borrowers as a way to ensure that financial institutions would “meet the credit needs of the local community.”

Under the Clinton administration, federal regulators began using the act to combat “red-lining,” a practice by which banks loaned money to some communities but not to others, based on economic status. “No loan is exempt, no bank is immune,” warned then-Attorney General Janet Reno. “For those who thumb their nose at us, I promise vigorous enforcement.”

The Clinton-Reno threat of “vigorous enforcement” pushed banks to make the now infamo

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:07 PM

So you quote a right-wng blowhard... and then I quote a left-wing blowhard... and then you quote another right-wing blowhard...

Really, Rappy, we could go trading second-hand opinions all day long. But the FACT is that while Fannie and Freddie may back or hold a large number of mortgages, they only held 25% of the "subprime" mortgages, even even LESS (15%) of the mortgages that are currently "at risk" of defaulting.

Why???

Quote:
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been able to buy bundles of home mortgages, or mortgage-backed securities, in massive quantities without real-world considerations of financial risk, because they could count on the federal government to bail them out if things went south.

Not so. Fannie and Freddie were required by government regulation to limit their risk. In terms of risk profile and capitalization, Fannie and Freddie were waaaaay better off than commercial banks!

Fannie and Freddie got into the risky loan business because their investors wanted them to. Banks which wrote "toxic mortgages" could sell bonds offering unsustainably high interest rates. THAT was the force pushing the problem: a bank which did NOT write toxic mortgages (with unrealistic revenue expectations) would soon find investment capital drying up. Even Fannie and Freddie experienced this problem: they stuck with less risky portfolios but could only offer bonds with interest rates only about 0.25% higher than T-bills. And their investors were pissed.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

SWISH

Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.

Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

I actually made up a fake guy here a few years back to make fun of extreme rightwingnuts, but AU just sorta outstripped my fictional dude, so I just dropped it & let AU do the work for me for real

The good-moody Chrisisall

STORYMARK

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.
Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

That's a waste of time. This is Rappy SOP, deny cited information from widely accepted sources, then make a contrary claim without evidence (or occationally, some editorial from a far-right site, see above), claim it as fact, then call the other person a liar or moron for not making their case.

You're right, though - he's so far off the charts, he comes off as parody.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

GINOBIFFARONI

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.
Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

That's a waste of time. This is Rappy SOP, deny cited information from widely accepted sources, then make a contrary claim without evidence (or occationally, some editorial from a far-right site, see above), claim it as fact, then call the other person a liar or moron for not making their case.

You're right, though - he's so far off the charts, he comes off as parody.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

That is because Rappy is really Stephen Colbert

Testing material on FFF.net

Lets party like its 1939

SWISH

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
You're right, though - he's so far off the charts, he comes off as parody.

That is because Rappy is really Stephen Colbert

I was thinking more along the lines of Keith Olbermann. There's a hard edge to the: please make fun of me in AUraptor that fits Keith's style.

But hey, if AU is real, kudos. There's a certain greatness in being parody of yourself. Not many folks can achieve that.

Got those cites yet AUraptor? Please, I'm just aching to see what you'll come up with next.

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:47 AM

Yanno, I miss Hero already.

He's on vacation out west, I hope he's havin a good time.

And do you know why ?

Cause evil bastard that he is, he doesn't pretend to be otherwise, and when you add in that he does actually put real criminals away on occasion and his utterly unapologetic stance on seeking his own interests...
(What better job in a proto-police state than being the police ? you'll never go hungry, that's for sure.)

There's a certain air of magnificent to that bastardy as well.

And unlike our current crowd, he's crafty, intelligent and possesses a decent sense of both humor and irony.

A worthy foe is he, and I miss that right now, when all we're left with is a pack of palookas more closely related to...

This.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Yanno, I miss Hero already.

He's on vacation out west, I hope he's havin a good time.

Just curious Frem, you going away anytime soon?

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:27 AM

Very subtle, BDN, impressive, even.

Alas, no - cannot afford to, between being shanghaied by the city and trying to get these new contracts up, while moving down the road a lil ways, it's been a bit of a chore.

Had to hand over the cab keys for good, I liked the work and would love to keep my hand in, but the tax bite is actually more than the extra income if I continue to dabble and I cannot afford it.

It's funny though, one particular industrial plant I pitched to was so convinced it's guards were doing a good job, in spite of the fact that they were shorting the rounds and camping out in the security office watchin DVDs on the camera monitor...

That paid for dinner it did, when I asked em if they were willing to put some money on that assertion and they did - when he put the twenty down on the counter I topped it with a list of all the blown lights, unlocked doors, fence damage, potential safety hazards and whatnot that they had missed, and then gently laid one of their own cameras I had dismounted and taken with me on top to weight it down, it was game, set and match.

Did I mention we have another new contract ?

Not only did I creep the place, AND do rounds for them, but took and pocketed one of the very cameras who's monitor they were supposed to be watching at the time ?

Poor (name removed), that's what they get for not vetting and training their personnel correctly.

The folks I got do include a couple of simian knuckledraggers in there, but as long as they have clear directions and a "What if" flowchart to consult in case of the unexpected, they do ok.

The younger ones, I work to try to instill a sense of pride and nostalgia lacking in most companies by teaching them some of the professional history I know regarding the position and traditions of the Night Watchman - considering for many of them the other options are military service or the burger joint, the good ones take to it like a duck to water.

They key is the attitude, the conduct - this is YOUR turf, YOUR people, your protectees, they are supposed to like you, be comforted by your presence, it's your job to make them feel safe, secure and able to sleep easy without concern, a mildly paternal/protective aspect with a friendly and helpful demeanor, rather than a slavish rules lawyering arrogance.

We've got some good ones, I am quite proud of them, they take pride in their work and feel they are carrying on a time-honored tradition, watching them reluctantly unshoulder the clock and hand it over always makes me smile a little bit inside.

You GOT to have the clock, swipe cards just don't carry the same sense of passing on tradition.
http://www.employeetimeclocks.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=57

There's a lot of history and heritage in that small bit of metal bound in studded leather, something you just can't replace with a mere plastic card.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, November 27, 2008 6:00 AM

Market funds are up about 20% in the past 4 trading days. If somebody can't make money in this climate, they should reconsider whether they should be in the market at all.
This is most areas: common, Small Cap, International.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
In 2006 the Democrats got a slim majority in the House and broke even with repubicans in the Senate.

But let's assume for a moment the Democrats had some actual power in Congress starting 2006. Did you even look at the DOW chart ? Go ahead. Look at it. Tell me what it did in 2006. Then come back and tell me how wrong, wrong, wrong you were to attribute anything good to the Democrats in 2006 ...

You're not making much sense. What point are you trying to make, that the Democrats in congress stunted or ended the economic growth? If so, then you're correct, but your statements are unclear. If you intended an opposite and incorrect conclusion, your logic is faulty.

The FY 06 budget was already done and in full swing at the beginning of 2006. The Dow was about 11K. In Sep/Oct 06 the FY 07 budget was already done and in effect. In Nov 06 the elections resulted in Dems in control of House (where ALL spending bills originate) and half in Senate, where spending is approved or not. At end of 2006, Dow was about 12,500 - about a 13.6% gain in ONE YEAR.
Then, Dems-elect are sworn into Congress in Jan 2007. They start working on the FY 08 Federal budget, to take effect Sep/Oct 07. In July (Congress recess) Dow hits a peak or 2. In Sep/Oct 07 the FY 08 budget starts, the first time the new Dems have budget in place. The gains of the past 5 years allow momentum for a few weeks, until Oct 07 has peak of Dow about 14K. This is still a growth of 12% in 10 months, and 27.3% in last 22 months. Once the Dem generated FY 08 budget takes full effect, Dow drops about 46% in 13 months.

So what was your point again?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, November 27, 2008 4:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Of coruse they're not going to admit that, but that's actually what did happen.
Cites, please?

God, you make this easy. It's like you're a liberal posing as a conservative just to make conservatives look like idiots.

Chrisisall - is Auraptor really your alter-ego, created to make it easy for us liberal types to win debates so easily? Because this chump is a... well, it's just hard to believe anyone's alleged brain actually functions like this.

Cites already given. I feel no need to repost. Sorry. Keep telling yourself you're winning. That's a good start.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Thursday, November 27, 2008 5:01 PM

Attachment :

Obama's recent appointments and remarks have shown , at least for now, that he's not planning to govern from the far, far left, but is showing signs of moving to the centre.

Cautiously optimistic

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

KWICKO

Friday, November 28, 2008 3:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Attachment :

Obama's recent appointments and remarks have shown , at least for now, that he's not planning to govern from the far, far left, but is showing signs of moving to the centre.

Cautiously optimistic

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

There may be hope for you yet!

And it's starting to look like even Wall Street is becoming cautiously optimistic.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, November 28, 2008 6:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Attachment :

Obama's recent appointments and remarks have shown , at least for now, that he's not planning to govern from the far, far left, but is showing signs of moving to the centre.

Cautiously optimistic

Hillary and Daschle and Janet Napolitano are not far left???? Near the center?? Sometimes you convince me you are delusional.

And Wall Street is cautiously optomistic when BO shuts his trap. When he starts blabbing about what he's going to do to the economy, the market dumps. Look at Tuesday's hourly movement on stocks.

DARKJESTER

Friday, November 28, 2008 4:38 PM

Quote:
Hillary and Daschle and Janet Napolitano are not far left???? Near the center?? Sometimes you convince me you are delusional.

Now THAT is rich! Rap is nothing if not consistently conservative. Now someone comes and blasts Rap for NOT seeing Obama's recent appointments as ultra left-wing!?

One tentative, shuffling step towards accommodation and *WHAM* suddenly you're no longer conservative enough!

Tickles me a bit - politics. And leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:

Now THAT is rich! Rap is nothing if not consistently conservative.

I would disagree. I often find him repeating declarations which were handed down through the liberal filter of mainstream media. It's something that is difficult to counteract, but one must be vigilant.

WHOZIT

Monday, December 1, 2008 9:32 PM

It dropped 650 points today, welcome to D.C. Barry, have a bagel!

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

JAYNEZTOWN

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:08 AM

time to get it moving

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:46 PM

From the point of view of someone who worked in this field for many years, and maybe there are others here, POTUS has little effect on the market. If anyone is to blame, sorry guys, it's probably Clinton, for the deregulation of the banks. But the banks are definitely directly to blame for the disaster. It has nothing to do with Obama.

Personally, I think Obama will get rid of capital gains tax, or try to. He said he's pretty much a Reaganite. I think the democrats will try to stop him, and might succeed. We need to get rid of taxing ourselves to death to support this monster govt. It's like an army that uses it's own members as a food source. It's just not going to be an effective global strategy.

KWICKO

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:14 PM

Can we start by gutting the Defense Department and doing away with useless and redundant bureaucracies like Homeland Security, the BATF, the DEA, etc.? Defense counts towards more than 62% of our entire budget, and is almost (but not quite) as much as the entire rest of the world combined spends on defense.

Can we dump all faith-based incentives? Can we dump welfare? And by this, I mean the MASSIVE welfare that we're giving to corporations and banks. Last time I checked, the welfare department DIDN'T have a trillion-dollar a year budget to give away to crack-heads, but apparently we DO have it to give away to coke-addicted banksters!

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

RUE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:20 PM

Rap

I just had to ask about this:

"Since Obama was selected President, the market's done what ?"

Do you not believe an election took place that Obama won by a wide margin ?

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Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Rap

I just had to ask about this:

"Since Obama was selected President, the market's done what ?"

Do you not believe an election took place that Obama won by a wide margin ?

George Soros, who has hedged his fortune into seeing the United States fail economically, is in cotrol of the country now. Obama is merely a puppet, selected for the purpose of distracting the masses with meaningless imagry, lacking any substance, what so ever.

There's been a regime change, and a coup perpitrated by the main stream media.

Don't kid yourself.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:33 PM

Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

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Silence is consent.

RUE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:35 PM

"There's been a regime change, and a coup perpitrated by the main stream media."

Assuming what you say is true for the sake of argument, did the MSM install dubya ?

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Silence is consent.

RUE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:39 PM

Just bumping this for Rap.

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Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Actually, it went down 332 pts.

Today it's come back almost to where it was, +279.72

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 8:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"There's been a regime change, and a coup perpitrated by the main stream media."

Assuming what you say is true for the sake of argument, did the MSM install dubya ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Assuming what I say it true ?

No.

( and I didn't assume what I said was true.....I was joshin'. )

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:30 PM

Quote:

Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

Lol.
(for up 180)
And also

lol.
(for pints)

Yes, I think that it is definitely up, the Tao is up 180 pints of bohemian black ale. Or guiness if you prefer. I don't, it's the non-irish in me, Guiness is just kind of bitter.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

Delusional much?

Quote:

Actually, it went down 332 pts.

Today it's come back almost to where it was, +279.72

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Ahhh, back to reality.

KWICKO

Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, BTW, since Obama was sworn in the DOW's gone up about 180 pints.

Delusional much?
Quote:

Actually, it went down 332 pts.

Today it's come back almost to where it was, +279.72

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Ahhh, back to reality.

In other words, on Bush's last day in office, the Dow continued to slide, and on Obama's first full day in office, it started to rebound.

See? It's all in where you put the emphasis. ;)

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

DREAMTROVE

Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:09 PM

Obama was sworn in at 12.05pm, the Nasdaq was at 1480. It went down to 1440, up to 1510. Now it's 1470.

Since we live in a presidential theocracy, where prices are set by the commander in chief, and there is no free market, that's just propaganda like the idea that we are no longer a british colony, it's clear the Obama is flip-flopping on the US economy.

I guess the more honest answer to your question is, nothing. The market has essentially done nothing. For that matter, neither has Obama. It's only been a couple days. I mean, FDR didn't set forth and say "In my first 100 hours I will" oh wait, that was Pelosi, and that stuff didn't really get done, did it?