It never happened. (almost)

POSTED BY: rue
UPDATED: Friday, January 16, 2009 15:15
VIEWED: 3614
PAGE 1 of 1

RUE

Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:32 PM

Without major coverage, it's almost like it never happened:

http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/printers/110th/IPres090113.pdf

Reining in the Imperial Presidency:
Lessons and Recommendations Relating to the Presidency of George W. Bush

House Committee on the Judiciary Majority Staff Report to Chairman John Conyers, Jr.

Section 1 – Politicization of the Department of Justice

Section 2 – Assault on Individual Liberty: Detention, Enhanced Interrogation, Ghosting and Black Sites, Extraordinary Rendition, Warrantless Domestic Surveillance, and National Security and Exigent Letters

Section 3 – Misuse of Executive Branch Authority

Section 4 – Retribution Against Critics

Section 5 – Government in the Shadows: Executive Privilege, Secrecy, and the Manipulation of Intelligence

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

SIGNYM

Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:53 AM

Sounds like "If the President does it, it's not illegal" -Richard Nixon.

"L'etat, c'est moi" - King Louis XIV
(Loosely translated as I AM the State)

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

GEEZER

Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
House Committee on the Judiciary Majority Staff Report to Chairman John Conyers, Jr.

So this is the report of the Democratic staff of the House Judiciary Committee, written as the behest of the Democratic Chairman. Think there might be a slight chance of bias here?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

ERIC

Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:22 PM

Meh. Sturm und drang from the guy who has refused to actually pursue accountability over the past eight years, but is very happy to stir up the base with books and 'reports.' I think he's a coward for not upholding his constitutionally mandated duty because it might cost him politically.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:40 PM

Funny to hear the Left whine about no accountability when Obama's pick for Treasury Secretary actively chose to not pay his income taxes for a few yrs, even after signing papers affirming that he got reimburesed for the money he was suppose to pay, but never did.

Just a " common " mistake, we're told. I wonder if the IRS would be so forgiving to Joe the Plumber, who got grilled by the main stream ( liberal ) media for not paying some $ 1,300, when Geithner didn't pay his $ 40,000 owed.

Did I say 'funny' ? No, it's simply sad.

Also, Eric, you're spot on w/ Bush not defending the constitution, what with signing the McCain / Feingold act, and his soft stance on illegal immigation. W gets a F on those 2 issues.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:12 PM

Hmmm .... not paying some income tax vs torture, illegal spying, lying the US into two wars, outing a CIA agent and ruining a multi-year operation to gain information on IRAN's nuclear capability, politically motivated prosecution, abuse of power ...

Rap, your lack of honesty is showing ... yet again.

***************************************************************

How's that roaring economy doing, there, Rap ?

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hmmm .... not paying some income tax vs torture, illegal spying, lying the US into two wars, outing a CIA agent and ruining a multi-year operation to gain information on IRAN's nuclear capability, politically motivated prosecution, abuse of power ...

Rap, your lack of honesty is showing ... yet again.

***************************************************************

How's that roaring economy doing, there, Rap ?

Dang Rue, you beat me to it!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Hmmm .... not paying some income tax vs torture, illegal spying, lying the US into two wars, outing a CIA agent and ruining a multi-year operation to gain information on IRAN's nuclear capability, politically motivated prosecution, abuse of power ...

Rap, your lack of honesty is showing ... yet again.

When you define " torture " down to not letting Islamo killers out to play in the sunshine for 2 hours a day, connecting the dots as being " illegal spying " and fabricating stories of *" lying the US into two wars " , you really lose all contact w/ reality and lose any credability. Because that's the best you have, is fairy tales about this President and what he's done. There was no 'outing' of Val Plame, it was Richard Armatige, and not Scooter Libby. who let that well known name out.

Rue, the lack of honesty is solely on your head, and no one elses here.

Lying us into 2 wars ? Wow, your fairy tales are getttin more and more elaborate, as W's last days approach. You can't even give me 1 lie for Iraq, and now you're telling us W lied about Afghanistan too?

I do pity you.
p.s. FMF - I pity you as well. Sad that you're as deluded as rue.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:00 PM

"When you define " torture " down to not letting Islamo killers out to play in the sunshine for 2 hours a day ..."

Detainee Tortured, Says U.S. Official
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009
011303372.html?hpid=topnews
"... interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."
"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford ..."

"... connecting the dots as being " illegal spying ..."

Federal Source to ABC News: We Know Who You're Calling
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/05/federal_source_.html
"A senior federal law enforcement official tells ABC News the government is tracking the phone numbers we (Brian Ross and Richard Esposito) call in an effort to root out confidential sources."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm
NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

Gathering data may not violate privacy rights, but it could be illegal
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-12-data-gathering_x.ht
m
"This may well be another example where the Bush administration, in secret, decided to bypass the courts and contravene federal law," said Georgetown University law professor David Cole.

I'll get back to you with more REAL FACTS (not Rap facts, which we ALL know here are 100% bogus ...) at the end of the day. I have work to do.

Meanwhile, please respond to torture, spying, outing a CIA agent, politically motivated prosecution, and abuse of power. I WILL take a lack of credible response to mean you're wrong -- yet again.

***************************************************************

Great economy, hunh Rap ?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:06 PM

I'm sorry rue, but again, you're wrong. Someone's OPINION that we " tortrued' any terrorist for not letting him sleep isn't valid for me. Sorry. These are they guys who want to kill us, you fucking dumb ass, and they can sleep all they want if they simply tell us what we want to know. We're not cutting off their fingers, electricuting them, scooping out their eyes, removing fingernails with pliers, or any REAL torture acts.

Gathing phone calls " may " be illegal ? More bullshit from those who want to attack the Presidnet for doing his job, simply for political purposes. If this was Clinton or Obama, those exact same actions would be APPLAUDED, just like the media is rolling over for Obama's Treasurey head appointee. Pathetic.

My facts are just that, FACTS. Your shit is nothing but opinion pieces by left wing journalist.

I can't respond to your post because all your claims are 100% pure BULL SHIT.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I do pity you.
p.s. FMF - I pity you as well. Sad that you're as deluded as rue.

Hey! I'm deluded too! Don't leave me out of your disappointment!

The sad7 Chrisisall

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:12 PM

"I can't respond to your post because all your claims are 100% pure BULL SHIT."

Well, then. Rap said so, so it must be so --- just like that ROARING economy. Eh Rap ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I can't respond to your post because all your claims are 100% pure BULL SHIT."

Well, then. Rap said so, so it must be so --- just like that ROARING economy. Eh Rap ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

I guess the roaring 20's weren't really the roaring 20's because of the great depression, huh?

4.7% unemployment IS a roaring economy, any way you look at it.

You're a moron.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hey! I'm deluded too! Don't leave me out of your disappointment!

The sad7 Chrisisall

Anyone who believes the shit that rue is shoveling also believes the Earth is flat, 6,000 yrs old and man lived w/ Dinosaurs.

I turst you're not THAT fucking gullible and confused, Chris.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:29 PM

I guess the economy was ROARING in 1930 so there was no Great Depression --- eh, Rap ?

http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/~lchrist/c11/c1105/episodes.pdf

***************************************************************

And, I noticed you had nothing to say about torture, spying, outing a CIA agent, politically motivated prosecution, and abuse of power.

I WILL take a lack of credible response to mean you're wrong -- yet again.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:44 PM

More 100% BS FACTS from Rap

Quote:

Intelligence Court Rules Wiretapping Power Legal

By ERIC LICHTBLAU
Published: January 15, 2009
WASHINGTON — A federal intelligence court, in a rare public opinion, is expected to issue a major ruling validating the power of the president and Congress to wiretap international phone calls and intercept e-mail messages without a court order, even when Americans’ private communications may be involved, according to a person with knowledge of the opinion.

The court decision, made in December by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, is expected to be disclosed as early as Thursday in an unclassified, redacted form, the person said. The review court has issued only two other rulings in its 30-year history.

The decision marks the first time since the disclosure of the National Security Agency’s warrantless eavesdropping program three years ago that an appellate court has addressed the constitutionality of the federal government’s wiretapping powers. In validating the government’s wide authority to collect foreign intelligence, it may offer legal credence to the Bush administration’s repeated assertions that the president has constitutional authority to act without specific court approval in ordering national security eavesdropping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html?hp

Quote:

Warrantless Wiretaps Not Used, Official Says

By JAMES RISEN
Published: September 19, 2007
WASHINGTON, Sept. 18 — The National Security Agency has not conducted wiretapping without warrants on the telephones of any Americans since at least February, the nation’s top intelligence officer told Congress on Tuesday.

Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence, told the House Judiciary Committee that since he took office that month, the government has conducted electronic surveillance only after seeking court-approved warrants.

In January, the Bush administration announced that it had agreed to allow a secret intelligence court to oversee the N.S.A.’s eavesdropping program, and that it would comply with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the 30-year-old law that regulates the government’s domestic spying activities. The administration’s decision appeared to end the basis for the warrantless wiretapping program secretly begun by President Bush just after the Sept. 11 attacks.

Mr. McConnell’s testimony Tuesday was the first time he has publicly said that the warrantless wiretapping of Americans has actually been ended. It came just as the Democratic-controlled Congress is preparing for yet another legislative battle over how to update the nation’s foremost surveillance law, a subject that President Bush is scheduled to discuss Wednesday when he visits N.S.A. headquarters at Fort Meade, Md.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/washington/19nsa.html?_r=1

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I can't respond to your post because all your claims are 100% pure BULL SHIT."

Well, then. Rap said so, so it must be so --- just like that ROARING economy. Eh Rap ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

I guess the roaring 20's weren't really the roaring 20's because of the great depression, huh?

4.7% unemployment IS a roaring economy, any way you look at it.

You're a moron.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Dude, the depression was 1929....um.... at the END of the 20's.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hey! I'm deluded too! Don't leave me out of your disappointment!

The sad7 Chrisisall

Anyone who believes the shit that rue is shoveling also believes the Earth is flat, 6,000 yrs old and man lived w/ Dinosaurs.

I turst you're not THAT fucking gullible and confused, Chris.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

No that would be Sarah Palin....not our Rue

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I guess the economy was ROARING in 1930 so there was no Great Depression --- eh, Rap ?

Logical fallacy, on your part. The economy BEFORE I made the statement you routinely repeat out of context was in reference to the years BEFORE the economic down turn in the end of '08. You're trying to attatch my words of the months and years AFTER the drop to the current and subsequent economic conditions.

You're lying, as usual, again. I've come to expect as much from you.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

GEEZER

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:51 PM

Well, if you want to be technical about it, it's admission to the government of not paying some income tax, vs. allegations of torture, illegal spying, etc.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

No that would be Sarah Palin....not our Rue

Again, you've fallen for a wide spread Liberal lie, much like the Tina Fey comment where, impersonating Gov Palin, she says " I can see Russia from my house ! " Many idiots think that Gov Palin really said that, and not Tina Fey.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

Dude, the depression was 1929....um.... at the END of the 20's.

Your point? The Great Depression started in October, 1929. Yes, that's in the 20's However, before that, the 'roaring 20's', as it was called, was a time of considerable economic upswing. The Great Depression lasted through the decade of the 30's, up until the start of WW2.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:04 PM

Geezer

The written statement by Susan J. Crawford, convening authority of the military commissions at Guantanamo Bay and a military lawyer, has been called an admision, a conclusion, and a determination. Not an allegation.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
However, before that, the 'roaring 20's', as it was called, was a time of considerable economic upswing.

Is the lesson here that we should beware of upswings & balloons because a backlash to excess will be the price we pay for our fun? Hmmm?

The questioning Chrisisall

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:10 PM

What Rap is saying that if you look at a small enough slice of time, in just the right way, and ignoring everything else, you'll find even the Great Depression goes away under the FACT of a booming economy !

***************************************************************

So, how's that ROARING economy doing Rap ?

CHRISISALL

Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:13 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:47 PM

John Conyers is a gutless punk, even his *wife* has ripped him on it, so badly that in fleeing from her he once ran smack into Cindy Sheehan, who then called him out on the same thing - that was actually rather amusing, and mostly he just hides under the table down there cause he's too scared to rock the boat just like that pissant Pelosi.

They've shown their true colors to me - yellow.

And if they were unwilling to rein in even the most blatant bastards of the opposition party, I see no hope of them doing so to their own, ergo, they deserve to get evicted from those comfy seats as soon as possible, since impeaching them for non-performance doesn't seem viable, or I would reccommend that.

If the republicans could dredge up something other than the scum scraped off the bottom of the bucket as usual, they might even stand a chance, but given their recent history, I'd say it's pretty unlikely since they torpedoed anyone with the remotest set of ethics during the current administration.

I am *very* temped to find out who our local version of PirateNews is and write THEM in for Conyers position...

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

KWICKO

Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:49 PM

Quote:

Again, you've fallen for a wide spread Liberal lie, much like the Tina Fey comment where, impersonating Gov Palin, she says " I can see Russia from my house ! " Many idiots think that Gov Palin really said that, and not Tina Fey.

So what was it, exactly, that Sarah Palin DID say on that subject?

And you seem to have been a victim of a few lies yourself (Al Gore claims to have invented the internet? What poppycock!)

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What Rap is saying that if you look at a small enough slice of time, in just the right way, and ignoring everything else, you'll find even the Great Depression goes away under the FACT of a booming economy !

***************************************************************

So, how's that ROARING economy doing Rap ?

No, you're the one looking only at a thin slice of time, and completely ignoring the entire DECADE which came before Oct 29, 1929.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Again, you've fallen for a wide spread Liberal lie, much like the Tina Fey comment where, impersonating Gov Palin, she says " I can see Russia from my house ! " Many idiots think that Gov Palin really said that, and not Tina Fey.

So what was it, exactly, that Sarah Palin DID say on that subject?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

I don't know what she said, and it's likely she didn't say anything. Her parents were both teachers, though, so I'd hazard to guess that she's not as clueless as the hate fueled Libs would have us believe.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

GEEZER

Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Geezer

The written statement by Susan J. Crawford, convening authority of the military commissions at Guantanamo Bay and a military lawyer, has been called an admision, a conclusion, and a determination. Not an allegation.

Any mention in her statement about Bush, Cheney, or any administration figure? All I can find is her opinion that "the U.S. Military" did interrogation she considers torture.

"The techniques they used were all authorized, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent. . . . You think of torture, you think of some horrendous physical act done to an individual. This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health. It was abusive and uncalled for. And coercive. Clearly coercive. It was that medical impact that pushed me over the edge"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/13/AR2009
011303372.html?hpid=topnews

Get an admission ffrom Bush, Cheney, et. al. or have a trial. Otherwise, they're just allegations.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

No that would be Sarah Palin....not our Rue

Again, you've fallen for a wide spread Liberal lie, much like the Tina Fey comment where, impersonating Gov Palin, she says " I can see Russia from my house ! " Many idiots think that Gov Palin really said that, and not Tina Fey.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

It was a caricature and intelligent people of the left and the right recognize it as such. Those that wish to spread hate and discontent erroneously accuse others of actually believeing it.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:47 PM

Quote:
Get an admission ffrom Bush, Cheney, et. al. or have a trial. Otherwise, they're just allegations

That's good enough for the whacko, far Left wingers. Any bit of unsubstantiated quote, position or act they can tack onto their rivals will do. No questions asked. In fact, the fewer questions, the better.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

It was a caricature and intelligent people of the left and the right recognize it as such. Those that wish to spread hate and discontent erroneously accuse others of actually believeing it.

Tell that to Matt Damon.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:54 PM

"No, you're the one looking only at a thin slice of time, and completely ignoring the entire DECADE which came before Oct 29, 1929."

And what about that decade after Oct 29, 1929 ? Didn't it end up WORSE than before it supposedly roared ?

January 2001
unemployment 4.0%
DOW
10,587
Government budget
surplus

January 2009
unemployment 7.2%
DOW
6657 (inflation adjusted)
Government budget
1+ trillion new debt

Yeah, looking over Bush's reign, I'd say the economy was roaring along, all right.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:23 PM

unemployment was on its way up, even before Bush took office, and LONG before his policies went into effect.

The 'inflation adjusted' crap for the DOW is a nice trick. Why not show the numbers as they are, instead of tinkering with them, down, to make it seem worse than it is ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

RUE

Friday, January 16, 2009 1:13 AM

Here ya go:

January 2001
unemployment 4.0%
DOW
10,587
Government budget
surplus

January 2009
unemployment 7.2%
DOW
8212
Government budget
1+ trillion new debt

Yep - still DOWN.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, January 16, 2009 1:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

It was a caricature and intelligent people of the left and the right recognize it as such. Those that wish to spread hate and discontent erroneously accuse others of actually believeing it.

Tell that to Matt Damon.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

I was speaking of Tina Fey, not Matt Damon - I believe you will find that Matt Damon was ASKING if she believed that Dinosaurs roamed the earth with man. Also, I think that perhaps he said what he said BEFORE Tina Fey.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Friday, January 16, 2009 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

Dude, the depression was 1929....um.... at the END of the 20's.

Your point? The Great Depression started in October, 1929. Yes, that's in the 20's However, before that, the 'roaring 20's', as it was called, was a time of considerable economic upswing. The Great Depression lasted through the decade of the 30's, up until the start of WW2.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

My point is that the Great Depression came at the end of the 20's. The "roaring" twenties that you refer to was a time of unregulated actions on Wall Street, Robber Barons, Bootlegging and inflated stocks - so what you are hailing as a great time was actually the precurser to the (up til now) worst economic situation in the US.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Yes We Did!

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

RUE

Friday, January 16, 2009 1:38 AM

Oh, BTW Rap

Unemployment was 7.3% when Clinton took office and went down consistently till it bottomed out at 3.9% at the end of December 2000. BUT CLINTON ! You're right, of course - he steadily dropped unemployment over the course of his 2 terms, really bumped up the DOW, AND created the federal government surplus with his policies. It's a hard act to follow.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 16, 2009 2:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

I was speaking of Tina Fey, not Matt Damon - I believe you will find that Matt Damon was ASKING if she believed that Dinosaurs roamed the earth with man. Also, I think that perhaps he said what he said BEFORE Tina Fey.

Damon was attempting to ridicule, mock and stereotype Palin, for her religous belief. I've not seen anywhere where Palin herself said that she believed man and dinosaurs lived together. I've heard lots of folks CLAIM those are here views, but that's it.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 16, 2009 2:40 AM

Rue ,

To what do you attribute those numbers to Clinton's policies. What specifically did he DO which impacted the economy. Please.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 16, 2009 2:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Rue ,

To what do you attribute those numbers to Clinton's policies. What specifically did he DO which impacted the economy. Please.

Quote:
AURaptor actually thought:
Jesus, I'm losing another argument big-time, I'd better pull either the tired bit, or feign knowledge about this that no one could have. Rue vexes me, and I will have her!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 16, 2009 3:53 AM

Chris, not only am I asking for facts to back up "her" claims, your post reminds me once again that rue is a chick ( allegedly ) and that truly is what vexes me, more than anything.

VexedRaptorindeed

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, January 16, 2009 6:24 AM

Actually Auratpor’s got a point. Rue’s argument about the economy has always been to scream that it’s bad until it goes bad, and then she says, “See. I told ya!!!” And so rue takes enormous pride in the fact that she can compare 2001 and 2009 and finally, after 10 years of screaming about the economy, she’s finally right. But if you compare 2001 to 2008…

In 2008 unemployment was 4.9%. And the DOW was in the 12000s.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 16, 2009 6:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chris, not only am I asking for facts to back up "her" claims, your post reminds me once again that rue is a chick

You really need to be reminded that female completes male, that there is no competition, only balance. You are being sexist to the extreme here. Realize your inherent limitation, & grow from it.

The ying/yang Chrisisall

DREAMTROVE

Friday, January 16, 2009 6:28 AM

I'm bumping the dumb argument award.

Clinton and Bush both suck, economically. In a bipartisan way, congress supported this suck.

What people don't get is the time delay. The Deal with Perot set Clinton's first term policy. His second term was all Clintonista's this crashed in 2000, but there's a two year delay in economic policy. So, policy written in 1997 was for the 1998 budget, which lead to the 2000 collapse. Similarly, Bush has been driving the ship in a half assed way, but things didn't suck hardcore until 2006, and i'm not going to blame the democrats, I'm going to blame paulson and bernanke. The disaster bush leaves will, like clinton, leave a mess for barry, and did cause the crash of 2008.

Essentially, partisan bickering is just what bush/clintons love to see, because then they get defended against each other. These are two really awful administrations in every respect, but in economics alone, they are tragically awful. I find the idea about a debate about which is better is somewhat akin to whether polio or MS is more fun.

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 16, 2009 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually Auratpor’s got a point. Rue’s argument about the economy has always been to scream that it’s bad until it goes bad, and then she says, “See. I told ya!!!” And so rue takes enormous pride in the fact that she can compare 2001 and 2009 and finally, after 10 years of screaming about the economy, she’s finally right. But if you compare 2001 to 2008…

In 2008 unemployment was 4.9%. And the DOW was in the 12000s.

The whole world's in such flux, it's ridiculous to say that the economy is good or bad... is the tide in or out? Is it colder or warmer than usual? Are there more gamma rays today than yesterday?

*shakes*

ARGHHHHHHHHHH

The GREEN Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 16, 2009 6:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
These are two really awful administrations in every respect

*ABSOLUTE AGREEMENT*

Clinton was GUILTY of being smart enough to think he was smarter than ANYONE ELSE, and bush was dumb enough to think the same.

The somber Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, January 16, 2009 6:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The whole world's in such flux, it's ridiculous to say that the economy is good or bad... is the tide in or out? Is it colder or warmer than usual? Are there more gamma rays today than yesterday?

It’s not ridiculous to say that the economy is good or bad. It’s ridiculous to say that it’s bad all the time or good all the time, but the reason people do this is for ideological reasons, not economics. Rue’s problem with the US economy has absolutely nothing to do with economics. Rue’s an anti-capitalist. She’s always going to hate the economy because it’s too capitalist for her. She prefers more heavily regulated or more formal economies, for some reason. But that doesn’t mean the economy is bad. Even now that the boom has ended, the US economy very strong and doing very well, it just isn’t doing as well as it was.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

CHRISISALL

Friday, January 16, 2009 7:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
She prefers more heavily regulated or more formal economies, for some reason.

Umm... because human nature leads us into bad places when deregulation allows peeps to RAID our lost arks?

The postulating Chrisisall

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, January 16, 2009 7:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
She prefers more heavily regulated or more formal economies, for some reason.
Umm... because human nature leads us into bad places when deregulation allows peeps to RAID our lost arks?

I’ve never seen any reason to believe that more regulation solves that problem.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 16, 2009 2:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chris, not only am I asking for facts to back up "her" claims, your post reminds me once again that rue is a chick
You really need to be reminded that female completes male, that there is no competition, only balance. You are being sexist to the extreme here. Realize your inherent limitation, & grow from it.

The ying/yang Chrisisall

I got no problem w/ the women folk, as a rule. Rue just don't seem all that girlie a name, or maybe it's the tone she uses in her post.( Even as I type this, I'm having a hard time trying to address rue in the feminine.) Or maybe its the Shepherd Book avatar ? Lead anyone to think she's a he. I'm just sayin'.

RaptorRaptoriaisall

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Friday, January 16, 2009 2:36 PM

I had a hard time figuring out their gender too. I’m still not completely sure. For a long time I called both Signym and Rue “he” even though I’ve suspected the opposite, because I wanted to respect their anonymity. At this point, I think both have admitted to being women, but it really doesn’t matter.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 16, 2009 3:14 PM

Now you're saying Signym is a female too ??

Huh.

Again w/the male avatar, non specific name, I'm thrown for a loop. Grr. Grrr I say!

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

PIRATECAT

Friday, January 16, 2009 3:15 PM

Goldwater conservatives the Bush family is not. Reagan and Nixon were great presidents. What we have now is Yale, Harvard, Yale, and Harvard again. Terrorists don't deserve rights. In 2003 is when GW started dropping the ball. The soldiers court martial is a farce. Those orders came from way up to torture. Then the mayor and governor during Katrina failed those citizens. Bush 41 with NWO motto that comes right out of Yale. An the Harvard bunch is to centralize goverment for everthing. Sweet Jane everything is breaking the law today. Want real change elect Ron Paul and Ross Perot. Now that would be something.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".