Boycott ENTERPRISE .. it's just that bad.

POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Monday, January 24, 2005 20:10
VIEWED: 38245
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SOULOFSERENITY

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:13 PM

Ghoulman...dude...get off your high horse, man. I really hope you're not expecting respect, 'cause you're certainly not deserving of it. The insulting really needs to stop. It's childish and for the most part undeserved. If people don't agree with your point of view, suck it up and accept that not everyone shares your high-strung political/conspiracy views.

You want to bash someone, then stick with bashing me. I'd rather be the only one recieving your unmitigated attacks than to have you chase away Firefly fans who come here expecting to find unjudging kindred souls.

Ease off, man. I await your sarcastic and severely biased return volley with open arms.

P.S. Annik, I now thank you more than ever for your help and I will be happy to send you some of my crap writing if you need an editorial challenge! You are in my prayers!!!

______________________

But if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

ABSALON

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
*sigh*

Well, I've given up on this thread except to say I hope ANNIK is doing well and I want to apologise to her and anyone else who was interested in the subject of this thread.

The rest of you just wanted to attack me... prolly because I made a fool of you at some point which is easy enough. I love how those people insist I've attacked people, etc. Well, you can always cut and paste the proof.

Bye then

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

ABSALON

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
*hmm. Oh well.

yeah, ok, bye

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

ABSALON

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
.. and I'm the one with the martyr complex?

Fanboy politics. Never fails.

hasn't he gone yet

oh, i'm going to that special part of hell

ANNIK

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:01 AM

OKAY gang ... let's all play nice a bit and get back on-discussion ... sort of.

I'm not going to scroll back and pull quotes, so I'm using paraphrasing only here ... but I think the underlying topic of propaganda inside entertainment is one that really *should* be addressed.

Someone in this thread mentioned that to be propaganda, the actions need to be deliberate. I think that is a *fair* statement, and it is fair to wonder whether the folks putting Enterprise together are doing what they do deliberately ... at a guess, I'd say they're not doing it deliberately.

(And I'm speaking as someone with several years in the world of propa--ooops, I mean, PR.).

But ... here's where things get interesting: when our entertainment mirrors the 'official line'.

I'm of the opinion that a sign of really effective propaganda is when the key messages of the propaganda *propagates* itself through the public realm.

(To wit: our kids almost never get to eat McDeathburgers, but wow, can they ever sing that commercial jingle ba-da-ba-ba-ba well! So guess what they beg for?)

To take us away from our day-to-day lives (and attempting to keep this from returning to personal slinging at one another), let's look at ancient Rome.

Roman men had wives to bear them heirs. They had mistresses for entertainment and conversation. It was perfectly acceptable for a mistress to be well educated and thus able to communicate smartly with the men around her. A respectable wife, OTOH, was forbidden this sort of thing. (Sorry, no citations ... I lent my Roman history books out and they haven't come back yet ... tho' it's probably easy to follow up on this example for those who are determined! )

Anyhow ... back to the main point. "Everyone knew" that Roman matrons were stupid and uninteresting. The fact that the Romans had deliberately built their society to be that way didn't seem to register on them at all.

Back to us in contemporary times ... how many things in our day-to-day lives do we accept on the basis that "everyone knows" something? How often does what "everyone knows" stand up to scrutiny?

I think that each of us in our respective countries can think of recent historical examples of this type of thinking: particularly related to civil rights, women's rights, freedom of religious expression, etc.

I don't claim to have any answers here, but I think it is important to encourage ourselves and our children to learn to view the infotainment we receive with a critical eye. From what I observe, critical thought is rarely an instinctual process; most people I consider critical thinkers were coached or instructed in the process of critical thinking.

And, BTW, critical thinking does not simply mean being 'critical' or negative towards everything around you. It means using your five senses to look at a wide variety of perspectives, weighing those perspectives, and determining meaning beyond the surface packaging we are usually presented with.

So ... the reason a show like Firefly probably resonates with so many of us (beyond the pure and lovely entertainment of it) is that Firefly promotes personal responsibility and critical thought. Mal and his gang don't always work outside the law; however, they're quite prepared to ignore stupid laws that are stupid for law's sake.

I could go on here, but I won't. I'd love to see some further discussion on this underlying issue, but I'm thinking perhaps we should start a new thread on it. Any takers?

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

QUICKSAND

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 12:17 AM

I'll take that bet.

The problem is that anything that makes one Think Critically tends to get crapped on by the masses. "Dude, Firefly is stoopid," I'll often read or hear. "Sci-Fi and cows?! U R dum!"

We, the Critical Thinkers, are in the minority. Or at least, that's the way it feels to ME. Clever, thought provoking TV or film is low-rated, and makes little money, while the top-rated TV shows and movies are such clever, intellectual fare as "American Idol," and "Four Explosions and a CGI Funeral."

We, the educated, can never hope to take American Culture back, because we'd have to stop too often and explain things to those left behind.

But we can URGE people in a certain direction: "I'm not driving you to McDonald's; how about Subway?" or, "Hey, there's this new movie called 'Serenity' coming out, and it's AWESOME."

I maintain that "Pulp Fiction" was slightly more intellectual entertainment, because you had to think about it, and once the Smart Folks explained it, it DID find a way into popular culture. Same with Buffy, or ... I dunno, Aspirin.

Unfortunately, "Enterprise" pays off right now, in the millions, to the Corporate Whores of the world. So we're screwed.

But thanks for the very, very good argument. Only one out of every 50 people I meet can even comprehend Critical Thinking, so maybe that's another reason to just try to lead by example. I dunno.

RUE

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 2:11 AM

I sometimes wonder if American acceptance of cr*p is due to an unstated admiration for ignorance. Somehow Americans equate ignorance with wisdom, rather than trashy boorishness. And it is considered better to be an ignorant if trashy common man than an educated uncommon one.

"I don't know much about art, but I know what I like."

Bone-headed thinking, or honest and sincere?

I think at one time some people did live in a society where the honesty and reliability of neighbors, and the stark necessities of life, were real forces. It didn't take much learning to evaluate people and things in that scheme. Anyone who wasn't plain-spoken about the simple necessities of life was too clever, and suspect. And ignorance and honesty were melded into a precept.

But those days are long, long gone, if they ever did exist on a large scale.

So I think what we have is a shared myth whereby people keep themselves ignorant, and are easily manipulated by images.

I think it is preferable to be wise in the world, but simple in response. But that idea hasn't caught on yet.

While I'm not religious, this sums it up for me:
Be ye wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

ANNIK

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 3:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I sometimes wonder if American acceptance of cr*p is due to an unstated admiration for ignorance. Somehow Americans equate ignorance with wisdom, rather than trashy boorishness. And it is considered better to be an ignorant if trashy common man than an educated uncommon one.
(snip)

Heh heh ... this explains why "A Canticle for Leibowitz" was set in the US.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

QUICKSAND

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:22 PM

"I don't know much about art, but I know what I like."

My actual argument is below (XOXO), but I wanted to touch on this quote, cuz it's a whole other can of worms: to "know" something about art is to admire the technical achievement, the subtleties, to be a scholar of it.

Art is not merely pictures hanging on a museum wall-- I'll watch a film like "2001" or "The Sixth Sense" and admire the subtleties, the nuances, the use of color, of camera angles to set mood, of the way the director places objects or people in a scene. This is because I love the art form, but also because I'm a huge nerd. Let's focus on the former.

A film like, say, "Van Helsing" has none of these things. The camera cuts for no reason, the costumes were designed by retarded chimpanzees, and character development is replaced with Stuff Blowing Up. So I told the nerd in me to take a damn nap, and I enjoyed the movie. I know what I like.

Most of America, it would seem, knows what it likes, too. But they don't appreciate the art, so if something with Critical Thinking, or some actual Thought, comes out, they go, "Huh?" and think they don't like it, because they never bothered to think about it. If that makes sense.

(XOXO) -- My actual point, that I'm working toward, however, is I disagree about it being Admiration of Ignorance. What it is, is Actual Ignorance. That, coupled with an entertainment industry focussing on the bottom line. They've only recently discovered (well, TV has only recently discovered) that if they pander to our most basic voyeuristic desires, they will have the #1 show on TV and make billions of dollars.

It is our responsibility to NOT watch "The Simple Life," to NOT watch "Joe Millionaire," and demand something that makes us think. Because THOSE tv shows will still be talked about in 5 years (as 'Firefly' will be), while in 5 years, no one will ever remember "Joe Millionaire" ever existed.

THAT, to me, is what art is about. And a tremendous number of Americans are uneducated as to what Intelligence looks like. And a tremendous number of Entertainment Execs don't give a f.

-Qs

p.s. What the frag is "A Canticle for Leibowitz?!"

QUICKSAND

Wednesday, May 26, 2004 11:31 PM

Feh. The short version of my arguement-- well, actually, an ALTERNATIVE to my arguement, is just simply this:

Some people are gonna watch dumb shows, and go see dumb movies. That is their right, and we can't change them; they can only change themselves.

It is OUR (Your?) job to go see/seek the intelligent art, film, television, literature... because THAT is what moves the medium along, adds to the art form, and has a lasting effect on both the medium itself, and pop culture. I saw people dancing like "Starsky & Hutch" the week after it came out, but now we've all already forgotten about it-- it's no longer funny, or timely.

Do you remmber Indiana Jones running from that boulder? THAT is timeless... because even though the story didn't take a Rhodes Scholar to understand, the makers told it in an intelligent way that respected our intelligence. Maybe not everyone got it when it came out ("Pulp Fiction," "Fight Club") ... but these, like Firefly, are what We Must Tell Others About... and then just hope for the best.

I wish I could write a post that was shorter than eighty paragraphs.

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