Israel about to get its ass kicked

POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 9, 2025 04:47
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RIVERLOVE

Saturday, January 3, 2009 7:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Whether Israel wins or loses, they lose. They lose on a multitude of levels. Besides, there's nothing to win. I recognize their absolute right to stop rockets and missiles from flying into their country, but once again I feel they have screwed up the response royally, just like they did against Hezbollah two years ago.

This isn't S. Lebanon and Hezbollah. It's a different scenario, though similar tactics are being used by Hamas. The Jews know Gaza, for starters. They know the terrain, the area, having lived there, only a few yrs ago.

But what would you have Israel do, as rockets rain down on your country , day after day ? How have they " screwed up the response " ?? This, I'd like to know.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

I did say before that I support Israel's absolute right to defend itself against rockets and missiles. It's just the response I find horrible. Bombing & killing hundreds, wounding thousands of civilians in apartment buildings and mosques is in-excusable. Israel's been under these rocket attacks for many years. For all this time they don't seem to have any imagination for quick victory or less-deadly alternatives. But they're real good at blowing up civilian infrastructure from supersonic sorties by the hundreds. Their strategy seems to be kill 500 women and kids for every Hamas leader killed. Where are their precision drone plane killers like we have? Or elite commando units?, or in-country assassination teams? This pending ground invasion is reminiscent of the razings of all the Polish ghettos during WWII. And then what kind of bloody, deadly and disgusting mess is going to be left there? Compared to what the Nazis did to Jews in WWII, a few rockets fired into their country that kill almost no Israelis seems like a tea party, and a very weak case to make to become what their former tormentors were to them. They should have done more to avoid or lessen this possibly politically-motivated aggression.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Auraptor,

Consider first that most everyone on this forum is very well informed on most issues. Enough so as not to know to be leery of MSM.

That said, okay, let's look at this objectively:

Assume for starters that we can ignore MSM and everything it says. That's safe.

Next, assume that Hamas is trying to act in its own best interests. This is obvious. If they launch rockets, it's a feeble quixotic counterattack, but mostly, they plea for a ceasefire.

Hamas has never plead for any ceasefire they have ever honored. You’re entire post can basically be dismissed because it’s based on the completely spurious assumption that Hamas is peace loving, friendly and fuzzy.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
3. Israel should then respond with, we'll help you. And then not invade, but send Israeli soldiers who could maintain control over all the Israeli military equipment, while assisting Hamas in restoring order.

This is the hilarious part. You blame everything on Israel as evil occupiers then insist that the solution is Israeli occupation. HaHa.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

KWICKO

Saturday, January 3, 2009 8:35 PM

Quote:

But what would you have Israel do, as rockets rain down on your country , day after day ? How have they " screwed up the response " ?? This, I'd like to know.

In my opinion, they screwed up the response by targeting EVERYBODY in Gaza, and have only started getting it right in the last few days, when they started specifically targeting Hamas leadership and eliminating them.

See, targeting a person and taking him out with a few collateral casualties, I can make a case for; carpetbombing one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth because of a few primitive rockets being fired from somewhere in it, is a bit of overkill in response. Think of it in WWII terms - answering a few buzz-bombs lobbed into England with the firebombing of Dresden. You might be within your rights to do such a thing, but the tide of public opinion is probably going to swing against you. And Israel NEEDS public opinion on its side, especially when so much of its defense budget comes straight from us.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 3, 2009 9:17 PM

Israel did not use any carpet bombing, at all. Israel was using tactical air support (F-16 and Apache) all armed with guided missiles, which were used against specific targets. Carpet bombing is carried out with strategic bombers that drop payloads of ballistic munitions.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:18 PM

First,

Riverlove

Of course, I concur completely. No argument here. The only issue is how to change the abberant behavior. Deploring it is easy, but we are powerless to do anything about it.

FINN

I have never assumed anything of the kind, I assume only the logical conclusion that Hamas acts in its own self interest. This does not mean that they have complete control over their own religious zealots.

Quote:
This is the hilarious part. You blame everything on Israel as evil occupiers then insist that the solution is Israeli occupation. HaHa.

It surprises me at this point that you are employed. Your skill in discourse is unparalleled. Israeli assistance to stablizing Hamas is not an occupation, it would probably be welcomed, just as the Iraqi govt. and even the US military have welcomed an Iranian intervention to stabilize Iraq. Iran has been hesitant, because it is paranoid of doing anything that might be used as a pretext for invasion.

BTW, the Israelis carpet bombed S. Lebanon, this I got from a source you may not trust, but it's called the govt. of Israel. They sent us a long rant about how much our replacement of cluster munitions had screwed up their invasion plan.

Quote:
In my opinion, they screwed up the response by targeting EVERYBODY in Gaza, and have only started getting it right in the last few days, when they started specifically targeting Hamas leadership and eliminating them.

They should not target Hamas, Hamas is not the enemy. Hamas is the duly elected govt. If they agreed to a ceasefire, yes, Hamas would honor it. Random radicals would not. If the press says that such and such and attack is coming from Hamas, that's not credible unless Hamas claims credit for it.

The Palestinian people collectively are far less ammenable to an accord than is Hamas.

See, targeting a person and taking him out with a few collateral casualties, I can make a case for; carpetbombing one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth because of a few primitive rockets being fired from somewhere in it, is a bit of overkill in response. Think of it in WWII terms - answering a few buzz-bombs lobbed into England with the firebombing of Dresden. You might be within your rights to do such a thing, but the tide of public opinion is probably going to swing against you. And Israel NEEDS public opinion on its side, especially when so much of its defense budget comes straight from us.

Here's the thing which gets me:

I understand Israel's position very well. I understand the position of Hamas, the Palestinian terrorists, the people who support them, the other arab nations, Hezbollah, and Lebanon. I also understand the position of the govt. in DC, and the Pentagon, and the CIA. This isn't because I'm brilliant and precient, it's because they are straightforward and obvious.

What I don't understand is the position of FINN and Auraptor. Please enlighten me. I would hate to do you the disservice of assuming that your position is "all sand n*ggers must die because they are inferior monkey people." I would hope that you consider that this is in fact how your argument comes across, I'm sure to most people, even to the jewish and Israeli people, who would be offended by the defamation of their character that this would entail, to say nothing of the response that it might get from the Islamic world.

But I have to assume that underneath that is a more honest, straightforward and logical position, which has hitherto not seen the light of day. Assuming that, as I have no reason to assume prior to these posts, you are not in fact unabashed racists with a genocidal bent, I would think that it would behoove you to put aside the name calling and petty Rovian dismissal and try to make a more concise argument.

Let's dispense with the supposed threat that Gaza poses to Israel as nothing compared the threat posed by Israel to Gaza. Also, please consider the threat that Israel poses to the jewish position internationally, and to US military position vis a vis Israel as a valuable ally.

I am t

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, January 3, 2009 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
It surprises me at this point that you are employed. Your skill in discourse is unparalleled. Israeli assistance to stablizing Hamas is not an occupation, it would probably be welcomed, ...

Yes it would be welcome, by intelligent fair minded people, which is exactly what Israel has tried to do in the past. Of course, when they do this, you accuse them of being villainous and evil Jews murdering poor innocent and fuzzy Hamas.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
…just as the Iraqi govt. and even the US military have welcomed an Iranian intervention to stabilize Iraq. Iran has been hesitant, because it is paranoid of doing anything that might be used as a pretext for invasion.

God you’re dumb.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, January 3, 2009 11:22 PM

Finn,

Or I know more about it than you do. I'm afraid that despite an effort to be personable, I have to call it how I see it.

You are an oxymoron.

You said it yourself, that you were military intelligence. Now I know why we're f^&king everything up. Finn is our brains.

Time to fire Finn and hire someone who actually understands the situation.

KWICKO

Saturday, January 3, 2009 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Israel did not use any carpet bombing, at all. Israel was using tactical air support (F-16 and Apache) all armed with guided missiles, which were used against specific targets. Carpet bombing is carried out with strategic bombers that drop payloads of ballistic munitions.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

Sorry, I should have clarified that I brought up carpetbombing as an illustrative device, an exaggeration to make a point. Believe it or not, I *am* aware that Israel didn't send massive numbers of B-17s, B-24s, Lancasters, and Wellingtons to drop 500-pound bombs on Gaza. Neither did they use the more-modern (but still 50 years old) B-52.

Their use of "precision" guided weapons really hasn't worked out as well as they'd hoped, though - unless it's your contention that they intentionally targeted civilian areas with them.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

KWICKO

Saturday, January 3, 2009 11:46 PM

Dreamtrove lays out a logical, well thought-out statement of his position and how and why he takes that position, and asks Finn to respond in kind:

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

If you decide to simply argue the point that I am always irrevocably wrong, I'll simply ignore this thread and move on. I just thought I would give you a chance to clarify your position, and distance yourself from "Zion Uber Alles," "Let's have another Holocaust of arabs," "Let's have another Holocaust of jews," "Kill the racial inferiors," or "Let's start WWIII." As none of these are attractive or sympathetic positions, I thought that you deserve a second chance to explain your positions. But please, don't insult the intelligence of your peers: We know that Israel is in no immediate danger, and that they are the aggressor, and in a state of civil war, Israel is little use to us as an ally, outside of the above named positions.

If I'm wrong, and you wish to support one of these positions, then either say so, say nothing, or argue with the premise of this post, and then I can ignore you from then on.

If you wish though, for everyone on the board, take a minute, and compose a logical position that we may all, to your astonishment, agree with.

To which, the response is this:

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Humal:

God you’re dumb.

Beautiful. Our finest military minds at work. Now I know why we're in the mess we're in...

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

WULFENSTAR

Saturday, January 3, 2009 11:46 PM

So Israel is back to killing Palestinians?

Whats new?

Our country should not be involved AT ALL in this conflict. Let them hash it out.

Israel is like the bully with the bigger, older, brother. If they lose a fight, they just call us. Or better yet, its the reason noone has wiped them out yet.

I say to hell with them. We've got problems enough here at home as it is.

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