Let's hear it for all the peeps that want to see America destroyed!
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, November 29, 2008 18:07
VIEWED: 20718
PAGE 3 of 3
God, I love watching the wingnuts flounder and flop around like this!
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
God, I love watching the wingnuts flounder and flop around like this!
Beem watching the Left do this for the past 8 yrs, at their finest.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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No, I mean your constant "this is a fact, cause I say so - but your facts are totally not true" rationalle.
And hey, the Libs didn't totally loose their minds untill Dubya had actually screwed up. We weren't praying for him to fail, as you clearly are.
It must be your total nightmare scenario if Obama actually does a good job. Then, not only will your views look that much more backward and delusional, but your Holy Dubya's place as "worst President" will be secure.
Of course, Obama could fix the economy, get everyone in the middle east to play nice as kittens, and cure cancer, and you'd still say he was destroying America.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:Yeah, but unlike the rabid NC's, I want him to do a good job FIRST & FOREMOST to get our country stronge & true again, that it would PISS OFF the Mindless Miscreants of Military Might & Monetary Misappropriation is just a bonus.
Originally posted by Storymark:
It must be your total nightmare scenario if Obama actually does a good job.
The alliteratory Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
No, I mean your constant "this is a fact, cause I say so - but your facts are totally not true" rationalle.
No, it's the facts themselves , not " becasue I say so " which drives my rationalle.
Quote:No, you just tried to paint the President as illegitimate, which is every bit a load of b.s. as you suggesting I " hope " Obama fails. As it looks now, there's a good chance he WON'T raise taxes and destroy our economy, and if he does that, I'll truly be glad! Glad for him and our country.
And hey, the Libs didn't totally loose their minds untill Dubya had actually screwed up. We weren't praying for him to fail, as you clearly are.
Quote:
It must be your total nightmare scenario if Obama actually does a good job. Then, not only will your views look that much more backward and delusional, but your Holy Dubya's place as "worst President" will be secure.
Nothing can erase Bush's first 6 yrs,( note how things really were good until Pelosi and Reid took over ? ) or Carter's " 1 and done " disaster as President.
Quote:
Of course, Obama could fix the economy, get everyone in the middle east to play nice as kittens, and cure cancer, and you'd still say he was destroying America.
Not true. And I'll not come anywhere near to disrespecting him as you assholes did to President Bush. No matter how good or bad a job he does.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Yeah, but unlike the rabid NC's, I want him to do a good job FIRST & FOREMOST to get our country stronge & true again, that it would PISS OFF the Mindless Miscreants of Military Might & Monetary Misappropriation is just a bonus.
Originally posted by Storymark:
It must be your total nightmare scenario if Obama actually does a good job.
The alliteratory Chrisisall
Oh, certainly. A strong country is the priority. I would personally go on TV and say Rappy was right about everything ever, if it would help make the country stronger.
But yeah, driving the wingnuts batty is merely gravy. Makes it all taste sooo much nicer.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Chrissy, America is strong and true, regardless of Obama being in the White House. Unlike you , i don't hate this country nor do I spit on her history.
you do, and that's what makes us different.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, it's the facts themselves , not " becasue I say so " which drives my rationalle.
Jesus, you are deluded. Funny, but deluded.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
i don't hate this country nor do I spit on her history.
you do, and that's what makes us different.
Where has Chris ever said he hated the country, or spit on her history?
Never, I'd wager. Unless you have something to prove it, which you know damned well you don't.
You just can't get it through your head that people might have a different viewpoint. Now, for most, they may disagree with that other viewpoint, and complain about it, but they acknowledge it. You do, or can - not. And now that a majority (a greater majority than elected Bush - who has the "mandate" now?) have sided with that other viewpoint - it's driving you off the fuckin' edge.
This is why you are so damned amusing.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:Hell, Finn, I'm just quoting YOU! And unless you edit your post after-the-fact, anyone scrolling up the thread can see where you said:
Why don't you start by supporting yours? Find me a quote where I said you were a murderous bastard (or whatever it is that you claim that I said)- Signy
Ah, typical Signymoid manipulation. Make an unsupported claim, but then insist that all responses to said claim must be supported.-Finn
Quote:Okay, I've supprted THAT claim. Now, you support yours.
Was that before or after you went into great detail to malign my character with manipulative mean-spirited commentary on how I was born with mental disability and grew up to be a murdering bastard?
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:How can anyone make broad brush sweeping generalizations that categorize 85 Million Democrats as capable of all doing the same thing. Even if that's changing your mind, or redeploying your forces to a position with better tactical advantages.
Originally posted by AURaptor: Beem watching the Left do this for the past 8 yrs, at their finest.
A generalization is like when I told you how all Republicans and you are a bigots, woman haters, gay haters, just like Scrooge, and something else I think. How accurate did that feel?
The people I work with are righties, I couldn't get 5 righties to agree on what color the garland on our druid christmas tree.
was gonna beAnyway, I'm not trying to start a fight, but your sweeping absolutes defy logic and make it more complicated to talk with you.
Happy Thanksgiving AURaptor.
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Quote:If Obama effs up as badly as Bush did, I will of course expect you to be every bit the cowardly un-patriotic cog you've continuously proved yourself to be here, and bury all angry & justifiable dissent in favour of
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'll not come anywhere near to disrespecting him as you assholes did to President Bush. No matter how good or bad a job he does.
*girly voice* respect for the office */girly voice*
Ha ha ha ha -drown in the moderation, you radical, ha ha ha ha!!!
The too-good-of-a-time Chrisisall
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Quote:Wow? Honest debate just doesn’t even register with you at all, does it? As I said, typical signymoid manipulation. And anyone who scrolls up will see that the post that you demand support for was in response to your unsupported claim.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Okay, I've supprted THAT claim. Now, you support yours.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:*Time out from the fray*
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Happy Thanksgiving AURaptor.
Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving to ALL the Browncoats here, even the ones I fiercely and vocally disagree with stuff on, all just folk after all.
Chrisisall will return to his bare-knuckle style of political discourse after this brief holiday intermission
The kinder gentler Chrisisall
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When talking of nutcases, it's clear that those who are acting nutty are implied, and not an entire political party. Rush Limbaugh nailed it dead on, when he said ( paraphrasing ) the following -
Liberals are at their nuttiest when they're out of power, but at their most dangerous when IN power.
And it's true! The off the wall protest, the outlandish, completely fabricated , made up stories about the Right, are several times worse when the Libs are out of power.
To ALL Browncoats, everywhere.....
May your turkey day platter overflow with bounty and you have plenty of mudders milk!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Yes, wow indeed! Such cerebral gymnastics! Almost a neuron-filled contortionist miracle you just pulled there with your amazing logic based argument Rap! What a feat of debating skill!
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wow, you truly are an idiot.
Anyway, still waiting for those cites to prove that EVERYONE on BOTH SIDES thinks that Roe v Wade is bad. Or is wikipedia as far as your amazing twisty-turny brain can reach? Does your brain truly have such short arms?
-Swish the brainless, waiting eagerly to be enlightened...
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Quote:It’s not Thanksgiving, but Happy It anyway.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:*Time out from the fray*
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Happy Thanksgiving AURaptor.
Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving to ALL the Browncoats here, even the ones I fiercely and vocally disagree with stuff on, all just folk after all.
Chrisisall will return to his bare-knuckle style of political discourse after this brief holiday intermission
I’m leaving tomorrow to go to my Grandma house where I will help the lady folk cook for Thanksgiving dinner. Then on Friday, everyone’s coming to my house, where we will consume the annual Greek/Italian feast and put on the tunes and jam.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:what unsupported claim?
Wow? Honest debate just doesn’t even register with you at all, does it? As I said, typical signymoid manipulation. And anyone who scrolls up will see that the post that you demand support for was in response to your unsupported claim.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:You mean this one?
Oh, no Finn. You're not anywhere near as noble and dispassionate as you think you are, 'cause I've been on the receiving end of your hate. You called me all kinds of names, including un-American.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
Oh now come on. We both know that you’ll never be able to convince yourself of the conspiracy theories unless you hurt someones feelings or make someone feel humiliated and unimportant. Just call me a lying son of a bitch and get it off your chest- Finn
I don't think you're lying, that's why.- Signy
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.asp?b=18&t=30342
Quote:
The irrational Bush haters do nothing but help to legitimize the bigotry and hatred against this country that drives terror attacks against us.
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.asp?b=18&t=23544 of which is related to the Falwell debate. This is not discussion; it's just Gestapo tactics. You're confusing the issue because you’re too small-minded to deal with the debate honestly.- Finn
And since I've already agreed that we shouldn't be celebrating Falwell's death, what more do you want me to say on the topic? This is one of those times when we agree. I just want the same consideration extended without prejudice to hate-mongering blowhards of all faiths. Including me. -Signy
No what you want is to paint people who disagree with you as evil, and so you are the hate-mongering blowhard.-Finn
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.asp?b=18&t=28740
Shall I go on? There's plenty more.
If you should re-read the threads Finn, you'll consistently find that YOU'RE the one putting words in my mouth: saying that I think you're an evil, lying, mass murderer, and it's ME who keeps saying... you're not. You're just inconsistent.
Anyway, Happy T-day everyone!
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:I have read those threads many times, and in all of them, particularly Falwell thread YOU were desperately trying to paint me as a murdering son of bitch. I was actually astonished at the lengths that you went to justify your ad hominem. Even other people on the board, who don’t hold my particular political persuasion and have no reason to defend me, commented that you were attacking me unfairly. So if you need any further evidence of your mean spirited attitude you need only read the Falwell thread. Thank you for proving my point.
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you should re-read the threads Finn, you'll consistently find that YOU'RE the one putting words in my mouth: saying that I think you're an evil, lying, mass murderer, and it's ME who keeps saying... you're not. You're just inconsistent.
Posted by Khyron in the Falwell thread. And a very good synopsis of Signym’s posts in that thread:
Quote:
This whole thing reads like a smear campaign against Finn. Finn doesn't like the way people reacted to Falwell's death, so Sig tries to undermine his opinion by pointing to unrelated topics where Finn's viewpoint is unpopular.
So what's your strategy, Sig? Harp on about Finn's attitude towards American interventionism until he's bored and leaves or he's seemingly so discredited in the eyes of other posters that they'll ignore his objections and continue expressing their dislike of Falwell? That way they could do it in peace until they feel they have sufficiently expressed their moral superiority, without being made to feel guilty about it.
And have a happy Thanksgiving.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Rush Limbo is one of the mean spirited generalization weilding bigots I've been talking about. Rush is only a man with the knowlege of how to incite right wing phobias, paranoia, and most of all anger. He's more of a mental manipulator that should never be mistaken for someone anyone should quote. One might as well quote Goebbels.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When talking of nutcases, it's clear that those who are acting nutty are implied, and not an entire political party. Rush Limbaugh nailed it dead on, when he said ( paraphrasing ) the following
How efficiently do people usually think when they're mad? With most people it's not so much.
It's how he says whatever he says...like this example...Rush could say...
"Those Liberals!!!...have been taking showers for years!!!...how many millions of gallons of water have been wasted!!! Senator Liberal knew about the showers since 1994, during the Clinton Administration. Liberal showering is over the top!!!...and it jeopardizes the ability of tax paying patriotic Americans to shower!!! That's right!!! the people who deserve to shower!!!
See...I could do a Rush broadcast...just insert the issue, and the rest of his rants are all the same. Dissagreeing with Rush is what righties do if they have a mind of thier own. Because 60 million righties listen to Rush everyday. If they're mostly Republicans...50% of Republicans in America download his cookie cutter hatred conditioning every day into thier impressionable minds. Liberals have more choices in media thank God
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Particularly amusing were his long winded rants against drug use and how we should have no mercy on those people - and just how fast he got on his knees and started begging for that mercy he was oh so very keen on denying anyone ELSE when it was *him* on the other end of that particular issue.
Just like the rest of his ilk, a coward and stone hypocrite to the core.
And I don't mean that as a party line issue, I mean anyone who uses hate, fear, intolerance and human weakness as a manipulation for personal or political power and gain - both major parties are rife with them.
The mere fact that folks still give ole Rotten Limburger any credibility at all after it coming out that he was poppin oxy himself the whole time he was screaming for the heads of drug users just shows how stupid the folk are that listen to him.
Even worse are the social effects of such idiocy, as many folks are forced to recover from horrible injuries or extensive reconstructive surgeries without effective pain relief because of that very demonisation - and the longterm physical and psychological effects can be quite devastating.
As with all such folk, soon as something impacts or inconveniences THEM, all their rhetoric against it means exactly jack diddly shit.
All too many of them, and never enough folk who gain political and personal power by building folk up instead of tearing them down, by setting an example even if imperfect.
I'll tell you this though, I'd take a moron who's bringing hope over a genius who's bringin hate, any day of the week.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:I'm not trying to undermine you, Finn. If you recall - I AGREED with you in the thread about Falwell, many times over. But I will repeat what I said before: If an Ayatollah were to call for the death of... say, for instance... all of the current administration... I doubt you would be as forgiving of THAT as you are of Falwell calling for fags to be killed.
This whole thing reads like a smear campaign against Finn. Finn doesn't like the way people reacted to Falwell's death, so Sig tries to undermine his opinion by pointing to unrelated topics where Finn's viewpoint is unpopular. So what's your strategy, Sig? Harp on about Finn's attitude towards American interventionism until he's bored and leaves or he's seemingly so discredited in the eyes of other posters that they'll ignore his objections and continue expressing their dislike of Falwell? That way they could do it in peace until they feel they have sufficiently expressed their moral superiority, without being made to feel guilty about it.
My point in that whole thread and this is that are are inconsistent in your view of "right" and "wrong". It doesn't seem to matter WHAT is being done as much as WHO is doing it and TO WHOM. That's why (in your mind) an American President can cause the death of millions of bystanders for no good reason whatsoever and not be considered (by you) to be a "terrorist", but someone who blows up a dozen peeps with less sophisticated hardware is. Or why you believe that "human Life" is sacred and women can't kill (their unborn fetuses), but the President can in war and the jailers can for the death penalty.
I believe that YOU believe you're a "good guy" who tries to do the right thing. But I also believe that your view of "right" and "wrong" is too tied up with a person's presumed authority and not too well connected with their actions and results.
All I want you do to is THINK.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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OMG --- I can't keep up.
It's the friggin' DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING !
What are y'all doing posting so much ?
Anyway --- later. 
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Yes, Signym, I don’t agree with you, and the only way you can justify that disagreement in your mind is to assume that I’m an imbecile, because no right thinking person could ever disagree with the almighty, all-knowing Lord Thy God Signym. But I do, and I do because I have thought my opinion though and I have blasphemously come to a different view then you. And there was nothing inconsistent in my view in that thread. Falwell never called for “fags” to be killed, but there is a very big difference between the Ayatollah calling for someone’s death and Falwell: Falwell never had an army of armed soldiers to turn his words into actions. But the only people Falwell ever called for the death of, were terrorists and militant’s attacking the country. But you don't really care what Falwell actually thought, because it's not about disagreeing with him, for which you'd have to actually listen to him, it's about hating him for what he stands for.
Kyron had it right. You do this to a lot of people. Bullying people makes you feel important. Like all fundamentalists, you’re just spreading the Word. Preaching the Gospel to the imbeciles, that’s how you justify the Gestapo debating tactics. That’s what Falwell did.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:I have to start getting ready. So Happy Thanksgiving Rue! And Signym, and Chrisisall, et al.
Originally posted by rue:
OMG --- I can't keep up.
It's the friggin' DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING !
What are y'all doing posting so much ?
Anyway --- later.
I really didn’t mean for this to turn into a serious discussion. I was really just going to poke some fun at the Obama supporters for how they are suddenly sounding just like the Bush supporters. It’s the Animal Farm mentally. It’s universal to human nature.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Ah Finn, can we continue this discussion later? Perhaps in a separate thread or even off-line?
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I hope you're surrounded by people who love you, and that your holiday is full of warmth and good times.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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May we all do the Thanksgiving Snoopy Dance!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Beem watching the Left do this for the past 8 yrs, at their finest.
You truly are an idiot.
Deal w/it.
Case closed.
End of discussion.
You have no case.
Your point is moot.
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Quote:
Nothing can erase Bush's first 6 yrs,( note how things really were good until Pelosi and Reid took over ?
Yeah, things were going along just fucking swimmingly until Reid & Pelosi made us invade Iraq and get fucked over by Katrina. Why, I bet it was Reid and Pelosi who flew those planes into the twin towers, too! Those bastards!
You're right, though - nothing can erase the stain of Bush's first six years. Or his last two. No matter how hard you try, you're still going to be stuck with the fact that he's been the worst disaster to happen to the American people in more than a generation. Possibly the worst thing to happen to us in, like, FOREVER.
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Quote:
No, dumbass, everyone as in scholars from both sides of the argument.
Wait... did you just call someone a dumbass for not knowing that when you said "EVERYONE" what you obviously meant was "scholars from both sides of the argument"?
So, dumb-ass - EVERYONE knew there were no WMD in Iraq! I mean, everyone knew it. You and Bush were the only dumbasses dumb enough to NOT know it.
Wow, that's a pretty handy rhetorical device there. You SAY "everyone", but you MEAN "the people I most want to listen to". Handy indeedy!
See ya later, dumbass. And by "dumbass", I mean that everyone thinks you're a dumbass.
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Quote:
You do this to a lot of people. Bullying people makes you feel important. Like all fundamentalists, you’re just spreading the Word. Preaching the Gospel to the imbeciles, that’s how you justify the Gestapo debating tactics. That’s what Falwell did.
As do you. As for Falwell "not having an army", bullshit. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fundamentalist nutjobs out there who are armed to the teeth and just waiting for someone to aim them and pull the trigger.
So what does bullying do for you? How does it make YOU feel? What makes YOU feel important? Seems to me you're assigning meaning to Signy's "bullying" that just as easily fit your own actions.
If the prefix "pro-" means "for" or "in favor of", and "con" is its opposite, and if "progress" means "pushing forward" or "improving"... then what the hell does "Congress" mean?
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Quote:
I really didn’t mean for this to turn into a serious discussion. I was really just going to poke some fun at the Obama supporters for how they are suddenly sounding just like the Bush supporters. It’s the Animal Farm mentally. It’s universal to human nature.
And it should be noted that the Obama haters now sound exactly like the Bush haters of the past 8 years. I find it amusing myself. Tell me, will you get deeply offended if we call you un-American, or a traitor, or tell you to leave the country, because your kind aren't welcome here? Would you find that offensive? Because, frankly, we've had to deal with it from the right for eight goddamned years now.
Maybe revenge isn't the right thing to do, but it sure feels good sometimes!
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Quote:I don’t really want to listen to you preach to me to repent change my ways because I’m an infidel. It’s one thing to argue a topic, it’s something else entirely for you to preach your gospel.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Ah Finn, can we continue this discussion later? Perhaps in a separate thread or even off-line?
Quote:I will and the same to you.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! I hope you're surrounded by people who love you, and that your holiday is full of warmth and good times.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
OMG --- I can't keep up.
It's the friggin' DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING !
What are y'all doing posting so much ?
Anyway --- later.
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
Because I'm stuck at work, I'm the ONLY one at work, the phones are dead, and I'm just stuck here waiting for UPS to pick up the day's shipping. Until he does, you're stuck with me.
Smoochies to all on Thanksgiving Eve! Enjoy your turkeys, your hams, your tofurkey, your turducken, or whatever it is that gives you a warm-n-fuzzy!
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Quote:Some of you are already doing that. Offensive? No, just hypocritical, and funny.
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
And it should be noted that the Obama haters now sound exactly like the Bush haters of the past 8 years. I find it amusing myself. Tell me, will you get deeply offended if we call you un-American, or a traitor, or tell you to leave the country, because your kind aren't welcome here? Would you find that offensive? Because, frankly, we've had to deal with it from the right for eight goddamned years now.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Maybe, but 99.9% percent of them are Islamic, and their following the Islamic leaders, not Falwell.
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
As for Falwell "not having an army", bullshit. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of fundamentalist nutjobs out there who are armed to the teeth and just waiting for someone to aim them and pull the trigger.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Actually it’s fairly typical usage. So there may be a bit dumbassery involved if you don’t understand that. For instance, the so-called “Consensus” in Global warming. Another example of the use of the “everyone” argument. Everyone says the earth is warming. If you define everyone as climate change scientists, and you ignore the last few years in which the earth actually may be cooling, then that’s a reasonable statement.
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Wait... did you just call someone a dumbass for not knowing that when you said "EVERYONE" what you obviously meant was "scholars from both sides of the argument"?
If Auraptor is at fault here, it’s probably because he didn’t take appropriate precautions with his language, knowing that the people he was talking to would use any convenient desperation instead of honestly debating the issue. He really should have known better, I’m guilty of that myself.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Maybe, but 99.9% percent of them are Islamic, and their following the Islamic leaders, not Falwell.
99.9%, huh? Wow, I had no idea the religious right in this country was made up of so many Muslims...
Do you REALLY want to claim that 99.9% of all religious nutjobs are Muslim, and that there's no such thing as a fundamentalist Christian nutjob? Is that where you want to go with this discussion?
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Quote:If by nutjobs we mean armed militants following a religious leader, then the vast majority of them are not fundamentalist Christians following Fallwell. That's right.
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Do you REALLY want to claim that 99.9% of all religious nutjobs are Muslim, and that there's no such thing as a fundamentalist Christian nutjob? Is that where you want to go with this discussion?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
If Auraptor is at fault here, it’s probably because he didn’t take appropriate precautions with his language, knowing that the people he was talking to would use any convenient desperation instead of honestly debating the issue. He really should have known better, I’m guilty of that myself.
Maybe it's because he has a history of posting up bullshit numbers that are backed by nothing but his imagination, and then holding onto those assertions like a bulldog holding a bone. Maybe to him "everyone" includes those 95% of Americans who don't pay taxes.
Hell, maybe they include your 99.9% of religious nutjobs who are all Islamic, for that matter.
If I say that all conservatives are dumbasses, obviously I don't mean ALL of them are - just the hugely gigantic vast majority of them. You know, like 95% or 99.9% of them! Like you and AuRaptor.
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Quote:"Everyone", have a wonderful holiday, no matter what other dumassery you might encounter!
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Another example of the use of the “everyone” argument.
(& watch for the peeps unskilled at driving drunk)
The holiday Chrisisall
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Quote:And if by Everyone you mean Americans who participates in Thanksgiving festival and is available to read this post.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:"Everyone", have a wonderful holiday, no matter what other dumassery you might encounter!
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Another example of the use of the “everyone” argument.
(& watch for the peeps unskilled at driving drunk)
And if by “have” you mean “to enjoy.”
And if by “a” you mean an unspecified reference to a noun.
And if by “wonderful” you mean of suitable enjoyment, not to include actions or events that while first appearing enjoyable later because dangerous, or uncomfortable or life threatening.
And if by “Holiday” you mean a day or days devoted to celebration in which one usually does not perform an official duty.
Then I agree.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Oh, you mean like how Rap's "honestly debating" the fact that a MAJORITY of supreme court justices who heard Roe v Wade ruled for it? "Everyone" includes these folks. "Everyone on both sides" includes these folks. "Everyone who's an expert" includes these folks. Is that something you're going to debate? Go on, make an "honest" effort. I'm dying to hear it!
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If Auraptor is at fault here, it’s probably because he didn’t take appropriate precautions with his language, knowing that the people he was talking to would use any convenient desperation instead of honestly debating the issue.
Seems to me that no matter how you try to excuse him, Rap is about as dead wrong as a person can be on this. As he has been on most things!
Where's the turkey? Wish it was tomorrow - I'm ready to eat! Have a good time, dumbasses and smartasses and everyone in between!
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A successful translation.
isall
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ElvisChrist. you just don't like the fact that I'm right most of the time, and it bugs you to know that you're so very wrong.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
ElvisChrist. you just don't like the fact that I'm right most of the time, and it bugs you to know that you're so very wrong.
Dude, you're wrong TWICE in just that sentence alone!
Matter of fact, I don't think I've ever seen you be right on any one thing, EVER. Nice to see you keeping up your perfect score.
Try again later.
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Hello,
Auraptor -
Actually, I would find it illuminating to hear a list of five things you've been wrong about. As near as I can tell, you're not just right most of the time... I can never recall you being wrong about anything, ever.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Dude, you're wrong TWICE in just that sentence alone!
That was SO funny man....
The really, REALLY laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Dude, you're wrong TWICE in just that sentence alone!
That was SO funny man....
The really, REALLY laughing Chrisisall
Thank ya vurry much, my son.
EC
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I was watching the Craig Ferguson Late Late Show the other night and he had a British actor on (can't remember his name) who's in a Broadway play at the moment.
Well he said that he received dozens of calls from friends in the U.K. the night of the elections. They all wanted to know how everyone in the States was reacting to the news that Obama had won. All calls were positive in nature. All were saying how lucky he was to be in the states at that moment. "They were ecstatic" were his words. Genuinely happy.
Imagine, these are the people of a country who are on our side. He went on to say that most of Europe was watching the elections very intently and with great care. Bush has often said that history will tell if he was a great president.
He's right about one thing - he has become a historic figure as president.
History will remember him as the man who helped bring a great nation to the brink of economic ruin. This is not an opinion - it's fact.
Just for the record: it was Bush's policies and administration that I disagreed with. I never ever said or thought that America (and thereby it's people) should fail just because I didn't like what the current president was doing to this country. Shame on anyone who does.
If McCain would have won, you would not catch me saying "I hope he fucks things up" so I could say I told you so. So quit your whining and take it like a man. We had to for 8 long years. I hate the war but I support our troops (yes it can be done). So you can support your country and not like the president's policies and his administration. I have no argument there, that's what this country is all about.
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK
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FINN
Quote:Oh, you mean Gestapo tactics like breaking your hands? Electroshocking your genitals?
Bullying people makes you feel important. Like all fundamentalists, you’re just spreading the Word. Preaching the Gospel to the imbeciles, that’s how you justify the Gestapo debating tactics. That’s what Falwell did.
Or do you mean Gestapo tactics like asking dreaded questions? Questions like "Why is human life is sacred in one context but not another?" or "Why is preaching hate OK by some but not others?" It never occurred to me that Socrates was Gestapo, 'cause all I was doing was practicing the Socratic method:
Quote:As I have said many times over, all I'm trying to do is get you to THINK.
The Socratic Method (or Method of Elenchus or Socratic Debate), named after the Classical Greek philosopher Socrates, is a form of philosophical inquiry in which the questioner explores the implications of others' positions, to stimulate rational thinking and illuminate ideas.[1] This dialectical method often involves an oppositional discussion in which the defense of one point of view is pitted against another; one participant may lead another to contradict himself in some way, strengthening the inquirer's own point.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:I think just fine without your preaching. You think, that because I don’t regurgitate your opinion back to you, that I don’t think, but that’s just arrogance. The same kind of arrogance shared by people like Falwell. And I don’t want to listen to you preach, anymore then I want listen to Falwell preach.
Originally posted by SignyM:
As I have said many times over, all I'm trying to do is get you to THINK.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:You contradict yourself other every other sentence.
You think, that because I don’t regurgitate your opinion back to you, that I don’t think, but that’s just arrogance.
You made it quite plain that human life begins at conception. In your view, human life is genetic potential... even before it becomes more than a placenta it's already "human".
And in your argument against abortion, you've said that human life is sacred and shouldn't be killed.
So by your definition EVERY human life is sacred because being "human" is in the genes.
Except in cases of capital punishment because the person is no longer "innocent".
So, you've changed your definition of "human". It must be both genetically human AND innocent.
But even then, considering the unborn and young children who are killed in war, THAT death is acceptable because they're "collateral damage".
So this time, you've changed your definition of "sacred"... you don't REALLY mean "sacred", you REALLY mean that human lives... even innocent human lives... can be spent if the killing was accidental or if the killer "meant well". Even if someone accidentally kills thousands of innocent human beings.
So REALLY what you mean is Innocent human lives are quite expendable, but only for reasons that YOU accept as being "worthwhile".
--------------
Your logic just doesn't hold up. If you REALLY mean All human lives are sacred you would simply say that it's unacceptable to kill except in the case of self defense of the defense of others. You would judge ANY killing on the basis of whether it saved more than were killed, whether it was in war, punishment, economics, or abortion. Life for life. Not life for vengeance; or life for "freedom/ choice"; or life for capitalism or communism.
OR you would simply say that humans are expendable in war if its accidental, in the interests of justice, or for whatever other purpose you deem acceptable. That some people (armies, police) have the authority to kill but that others (women, doctors) don't.
But the problem is you say BOTH. And those two statement can't exist together in the same ethical framework.
I could bring you several more examples of how your own thinking runs headlong onto itself.
I'm not really interested in you regurgitating my "line"... whatever you think that is. What I'd really like you to do is resolve some of the contradictions within your own thinking.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:You know, I think I have provided these answers to you already. What you want is to push your religion down my throat. I’m just not interest. You want to browbeat, and manipulate to impose your inflexible view of abortion and Bush-hating on me. If I thought you actually cared what I think, then I’d happy to discuss it with, but you don’t. So give it a rest, okay? If you want to know what I think, you can start by fairly and honestly evaluating what you’ve been told already, instead of this disingenuous calculating interpretation, you’ve provided here.
Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm not really interested in you regurgitating my "line"... whatever you think that is. What I'd really like you to do is resolve some of the contradictions within your own thinking.
You claim that we shouldn't use capital punishment because it's wrong to kill except in terms of self defense, but then you don't disagree with, say, World War II, in which thousands of innocent people were killed in collateral damage. Why don't you try to explaining this?
Quote:1.2-1.5 million innocent Iraqis died in Iraq as a result of Saddam Hussein’s misuse of sanctions. Since the war began, fewer then 100,000 Iraqi civilians are estimated to have been killed. Yet you support the use of sanctions. If you actually cared about saving lives, then you would support the war, since it kills far fewer then sanctions. Furthermore then end result of the war, which is much less bloody then the peace, is the possibility for a better country in Iraq. The end of result of no war, which is far bloodier then the war, is further tyranny little chance of reducing casualties or improving life for the Iraqis.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Your logic just doesn't hold up. If you REALLY mean All human lives are sacred you would simply say that it's unacceptable to kill except in the case of self defense of the defense of others. You would judge ANY killing on the basis of whether it saved more than were killed, whether it was in war, punishment, economics, or abortion. Life for life. Not life for vengeance; or life for "freedom/ choice"; or life for capitalism or communism..
Of course, I have explained all this to you. You simply won’t allow any information hat doesn’t suit your fundamentalist views to find its way past the blinds. If you can’t even accept or honestly interpret what you have been told so far, then it’s pointless to discuss it further with you.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:I have no idea what your answers are. You seem to be saying several things at once, and the answers that you provide can't possibly exist in the same logical/ ethical framework. So I don't know WHAT you really mean!
I think I have provided these answers to you already
Last I heard on the specific topic of war and collateral damage, you basically said that it's hard to predict how many lives would have been saved/ spent if other course of action had been taken. But if that's the case, doesn't it argue for MORE caution before going to war? Quite honestly, your answers leave me puzzled more than anything.
Quote:If I didn't care what you think, why would I remember it so clearly? Yanno, I get some posters mixed up with each other. Not you. I think about your answers but I can't figure them out.
You want to browbeat, and manipulate to impose your inflexible view of abortion and Bush-hating on me. If I thought you actually cared what I think, then I’d happy to discuss it with, but you don’t.
AFA trying to force you towards my opinion: I have NO PROBLEM with peeps who are anti-abortion and are also against capital punishment and war. I have more of a problem with peeps who say that it's okay to kill for the greater good (or for personal gain), but at least they're self-consistent. But my fuses fry when somebody says "life is sacred" and abortion is horrific but collateral damage in the fight for "freedom" is acceptable. So, which is it? Are human lives sacred or not? If human lives are not sacred, for what reasons are they expendable? Or, if you don't think I'm expressing this very clearly, how WOULD you express it? When is it OK to kill, and why? When is it not OK to kill, and why?
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Hello,
I think he's saying that it is okay to kill when killing kills less people than not killing.
Your mileage may vary.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Oh, it seems Finn added to his previous answer. I'll read it and think about it.
ETA: done. So Finn do you mean Its okay to kill when killing kills less people than not killing. ?
If that's the case, then I have no further questions, and you bring up a good point about sanctions. We may quibble about how many peeps died during the war versus how many peeps died during sanctions but your rationale is perfectly clear. Thank you.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:Okay, flaw here, how can you be sure that millions more would have been killed by his misuse of sanctions between the time of the beginning of the Iraq War until now? What if most of the killing he did was all that he was gonna do?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
1.2-1.5 million innocent Iraqis died in Iraq as a result of Saddam Hussein’s misuse of sanctions. Since the war began, fewer then 100,000 Iraqi civilians are estimated to have been killed. Yet you support the use of sanctions. If you actually cared about saving lives, then you would support the war, since it kills far fewer then sanctions.
I thank you for telling us your rationale for supporting taking Saddam down by force, it makes sense in a way most others don't, however it still begs the eternal question why HIM when there are so many other bad guys who were/are killing more peeps ACTIVELY than Mr. Hussein was?
The questioning Chrisisall
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Well, in addition, the sanctions were about to end. Invading Iraq for "human welfare" involved some pretty long-range suppositions about what Saddam would have done with the extra money and whether that would have made him a deadly threat in the future. Possibly, but hard to say.
Also, I think Finn gets me mixed up with Rue. I've decided there are better ways to bring rogue nations into line than sanctions, but that's another story.
Still, at least I now have a sense of what Finn is driving at, which I appreciate.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:That’s not a flaw in my logic. What if Hitler was done killing? He was going to stop killing Jews and give back the countries he had already invaded. What a waste World War II was.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Okay, flaw here, how can you be sure that millions more would have been killed by his misuse of sanctions between the time of the beginning of the Iraq War until now? What if most of the killing he did was all that he was gonna do?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
1.2-1.5 million innocent Iraqis died in Iraq as a result of Saddam Hussein’s misuse of sanctions. Since the war began, fewer then 100,000 Iraqi civilians are estimated to have been killed. Yet you support the use of sanctions. If you actually cared about saving lives, then you would support the war, since it kills far fewer then sanctions.
Quote:Like who?
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I thank you for telling us your rationale for supporting taking Saddam down by force, it makes sense in a way most others don't, however it still begs the eternal question why HIM when there are so many other bad guys who were/are killing more peeps ACTIVELY than Mr. Hussein was?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:No doing what you shoot down others for, Finn.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s not a flaw in my logic. What if Hitler was done killing?
Quote:Don't insult my intelligence, Kirk.
Like who?
The laughing Chrisisall
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Double double toil & troubles
Connection stutters & my post doubles
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Quote:You asked, and you got your answer.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:No doing what you shoot down others for, Finn.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s not a flaw in my logic. What if Hitler was done killing?
Quote:I guess I can read that as there weren’t any others?
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Don't insult my intelligence, Kirk.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Now, now Finn. Don't be puttin' words in Chris' mouth!
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:Okay, multiple standards- I get that.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You asked, and you got your answer.
Very mortal.Quote:Whatever.
I guess I can read that as there weren’t any others?
The impatient Chrisisall
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Quote:I don't mind, if it's his way to make a point-
Originally posted by SignyM:
Now, now Finn. Don't be puttin' words in Chris' mouth!
FOR ME TO POOP ON!!!
The TRIUMPHant Chrisisall
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Quote:You asked a question and you got an answer, and now you refuse to response, which is fine. I don’t need an answer. I don’t think there is one that you can give anyway. But this is just one of countless times we gone through this. Signym goes on this ridiculous thing every few months or weeks. And it’s always the same thing –she takes an intentional misinterpretation of my opinion on abortion and applies it to an intentional misinterpretation of my opinion on interventionism and derives the dubious conclusion that I’m a murdering bastard. You have plenty of time to think of an answer, in a couple of months the topic will come up again, trust me.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Okay, multiple standards- I get that.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You asked, and you got your answer.Quote:Whatever.
I guess I can read that as there weren’t any others?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:How can Human life is sacred possibly be misrepersented??? Now, we have gone back and forth on "human", but "sacred"...? It either is or it isn't.
she takes an intentional misinterpretation of my opinion on abortion
Quote:I was NEVER clear on your philosophy of "interventionism". It seemed at times to be excusable for containing communism or spreading the American way of life. You have since seemed to clarify that interventionism is only to save more lives than not. Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume that is your rationale for intervening, and that the only discussion which remains is how effective a particular intervention was in achieving that goal.
and applies it to an intentional misinterpretation of my opinion on interventionism
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Let's party like its 1929.
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