I will soon laugh at your pain
POSTED BY: whozit
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 19:04
VIEWED: 8214
PAGE 1 of 1
http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/television/woodward_knocks_clint
on_sos_Choice_101501.asp Barry is putting together a group of back stabing, power hungery, Clinton retreads. Since Barry has no friends in Chicago he can bring to Washington, (his Chicago friends are nutz & terrorists) he has to pick from the pool of Washington insiders, fowl tempered, power hugery rodents who WILL let Barry down. AND THEN I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN, AND DRINK YOUR TEARS!! 
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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Yeah, yeah. Whatever.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:Drink my tears? What the heck is that supposed to mean. You should have used "eat you children". Drink your tears sounds like some Mexican soap opera.
Originally posted by whozit: AND THEN I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN, AND DRINK YOUR TEARS!!
At any rate, my thoughts:
There is no gloom and doom that Bush didn't cause till Obama is President.
Democrats from the Clinton administration are not bad, remember how good the Clinton economy was?
The Democratic party is not split.
Obama doesn't hate Reid and Pelosi.
Pelosi doesn't hate Reid, or Obama
Bill Clinton is not a liability, unless he let's the cats out of the bags.
There are dissapointed anti war Democratic voters like me that are concerned about Obama's shift to the center on the war
The war is not enough for Democrats to be split like evangelical and fiscal Republicans are.
Every Democrat I know is enthusiastic about Obama in spite of attempts by the right to claim dissention where none exists.
The RNC has instructed Fox, and Conservative media, and Republicans to complain about everything, and if they have nothing, make something up until 2012.
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IMHO anybody will be better than Bush ever was. Bush will be rememberd as the President who broke the American economy and the American military. He'll also be remembered as the Gorbachev of the American empire. That's a lot of shit to shovel. But Obama doesn't have to be god on earth: all he has to do is not be Bush.
No tears here. Just a big sigh of relief that the incoming President isn't going to f*ck up as badly as our previous fearless leader.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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That's okay, 'Zit - go ahead and laugh all you want. We're sure as hell laughing at YOUR pain, so I s'pose it's only fair you want to laugh at ours. 'Course, it might help if we actually had any pain for you to laugh at, but from where I sit, things are looking pretty shiny. We've got the White House, the House, and the Senate, the Republicans are running scared and begging to be included in ANYTHING... so where's all our pain?
Sure, the economy is in the shitter, but that's all down to Bush - unless you accept that it's either the Clinton policies, which took over 7 years to have an effect, or it's the Obama policies, which have had an effect months before the guy is even sworn in.
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Quote:The Clinton years were good because the Repulicans were in the majority in the House & Senate, and kept fatso in check. The Clinton years was one scandal after another, we had a good economy beacuse of the Republicans. And do'nt forget that fatso passed on killing Bin-Laden 3 times! As for the FOX and the "Conservative" media, who will complain about Barry when he screws up, MSNBC, CNN, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, the latenight hosts? Nope, Barry can get drunk, barf in the rose garden, flip off the press and they'll still kiss his ass! I look forward to drinking your tears and washing them down with a glass of Gentleman Jack.
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:Quote:Drink my tears? What the heck is that supposed to mean. You should have used "eat you children". Drink your tears sounds like some Mexican soap opera.
Originally posted by whozit: AND THEN I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN, AND DRINK YOUR TEARS!!
At any rate, my thoughts:
There is no gloom and doom that Bush didn't cause till Obama is President.
Democrats from the Clinton administration are not bad, remember how good the Clinton economy was?
The Democratic party is not split.
Obama doesn't hate Reid and Pelosi.
Pelosi doesn't hate Reid, or Obama
Bill Clinton is not a liability, unless he let's the cats out of the bags.
There are dissapointed anti war Democratic voters like me that are concerned about Obama's shift to the center on the war
The war is not enough for Democrats to be split like evangelical and fiscal Republicans are.
Every Democrat I know is enthusiastic about Obama in spite of attempts by the right to claim dissention where none exists.
The RNC has instructed Fox, and Conservative media, and Republicans to complain about everything, and if they have nothing, make something up until 2012.
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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At least you'll have Gentleman Jack for company so it won't be an entirely dry evening. Have fun. Seems tho like you've already started the party so let us know when you come out of your haze.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Wow. Whozit: not even trying to hide the fact that his top priority is not for America to succeed, but for Democrats to fail. Way to love your country man!
You know, for the past year and a half there's been a few conservatives pointing to Congress's low approval ratings as proof that the slim Democratic majority was even less popular than Bush. To which I pointed out that if that was true, the Repubs should make great gains in 2008. Which clearly did not happen. Do you think these hot air filled idiots have reconsidered their stance and worked out that they were wrong? That the disapproval was of the Republican minority stopping all useful legislation? And that's why the Republican minority shrank so severely, and is now truly a minority?
Yet another example of how some conservatives have conveniently selective memories... helps with the delusions.
So here's my challenge to the Whozit and AUraptor types: if in a few years America is chugging along decently, recovering from this horror that Bush put us through, with a steady economy, civil rights restored, the constitution once again honored, our youth not dying for oil company profits, etc, are you going to man up and admit that the BS you're going on about right now is completely and absolutely wrong?
And yes, if Barack turns this country into a white-man-hating burka-wearing socialist whatever-it-is-you-fear, I'll certainly admit I'm wrong. And I'll fight to get him out of office.
But, if he does well and the country thrives, will you fight to keep him there?
I'm guessing whozit won't. He seems set on spending the rest of life looking for tears to drink, cause he likes being right more than he likes his country. Gotta say - that's pretty pathetic.
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Quote:Let the Repulicans run, they're fat and need the excercise. Your whores in the press are making this guy look like the 2nd coming, TIME has him on the cover as FDR, no joke, go to the store and see for your self. If this douch does'nt have the troops home soon, the stock market kicking ass, and a free puppy for everyone by next Christmas, even Barry's bitches in the press wo'nt be able to save him. This guys charm will only take him so far. And then I WILL LAUGH AT YOUR PAIN!!
Originally posted by Kwicko:
That's okay, 'Zit - go ahead and laugh all you want. We're sure as hell laughing at YOUR pain, so I s'pose it's only fair you want to laugh at ours. 'Course, it might help if we actually had any pain for you to laugh at, but from where I sit, things are looking pretty shiny. We've got the White House, the House, and the Senate, the Republicans are running scared and begging to be included in ANYTHING... so where's all our pain?
Sure, the economy is in the shitter, but that's all down to Bush - unless you accept that it's either the Clinton policies, which took over 7 years to have an effect, or it's the Obama policies, which have had an effect months before the guy is even sworn in.
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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My god, Whozit. Stop drinking so early!
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
TIME has him on the cover as FDR, no joke, go to the store and see for your self.
You say that as if the Time cover is some sort of hero-worship. I thought you and your kind loathed FDR; shouldn't the shot of Obama as FDR be exactly the sort of "confirmation" you're looking for that he's a "socialist"? In other words, for those who hate FDR, shouldn't the Time illustration really be just what they're looking for? Instead, you complain about it.
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Quote:You must not watch them because Jon Stewart and Bill Maher still tease Clinton. Just so you know, Maher and Stewart have never claimed journalistic accuracy. They're like SNL, and Jack Benny. If Fox get's thier reptillian claws ahold of a negative Obama story. They'll spread it without relent until they all let out a satanic exhausted sigh before smoking a ciggarette. And it will be lies half the time, and exagerations the rest of the time.
Originally posted by whozit:
As for the FOX and the "Conservative" media, who will complain about Barry when he screws up, MSNBC, CNN, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, the latenight hosts? Nope, Barry can get drunk, barf in the rose garden, flip off the press and they'll still kiss his ass! I look forward to drinking your tears and washing them down with a glass of Gentleman Jack.
But after Obama is in...the Conservative media is only Fox and Rush. If we Liberals ignore them like I suggest, the redneck bigoted evangelicals will be stifled. No more of thier needless death in wars, bigotry, and anti "elitism"(education)
And you're gonna wash my tears down with Jack Daniels!? Why am I not suprised. You'll not be washing my tears down. I don't have tear ducts.
Oh yeah!? Why don't Republicans do comedy? That stupid unfunny show Red Eye on Fox, and then that 1/2 comedy hour that failed on Fox sucked worse. They had to put on laugh tracks becuase you Republicans are as funny as dirt.
SNL, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher...all hysterically funny with years long follwings and emmy awards.
Why aren't Republicans funny...ever!
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Quote:Ignore is the word in your essay that jumped out at me, you and others "ignored" Barry's lack of experiance, slimey friends, and now lack of CHANGE. Jon Stewart once called Bush a retard, do you think Barry is going to get as much heat? As for funny Republicans, there are plenty, Dennis Miller, Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh and others who ar'nt afraid to be "Black Balled" in Hollywood. They're going to be in demand in the next 4 years.
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:Quote:You must not watch them because Jon Stewart and Bill Maher still tease Clinton. Just so you know, Maher and Stewart have never claimed journalistic accuracy. They're like SNL, and Jack Benny. If Fox get's thier reptillian claws ahold of a negative Obama story. They'll spread it without relent until they all let out a satanic exhausted sigh before smoking a ciggarette. And it will be lies half the time, and exagerations the rest of the time.
Originally posted by whozit:
As for the FOX and the "Conservative" media, who will complain about Barry when he screws up, MSNBC, CNN, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart, the latenight hosts? Nope, Barry can get drunk, barf in the rose garden, flip off the press and they'll still kiss his ass! I look forward to drinking your tears and washing them down with a glass of Gentleman Jack.
But after Obama is in...the Conservative media is only Fox and Rush. If we Liberals ignore them like I suggest, the redneck bigoted evangelicals will be stifled. No more of thier needless death in wars, bigotry, and anti "elitism"(education)
And you're gonna wash my tears down with Jack Daniels!? Why am I not suprised. You'll not be washing my tears down. I don't have tear ducts.
Oh yeah!? Why don't Republicans do comedy? That stupid unfunny show Red Eye on Fox, and then that 1/2 comedy hour that failed on Fox sucked worse. They had to put on laugh tracks becuase you Republicans are as funny as dirt.
SNL, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Bill Maher...all hysterically funny with years long follwings and emmy awards.
Why aren't Republicans funny...ever!
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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HE'S NOT BUSH, HE'S NOT MCCAIN, AND HE'S DEFINITELY NOT SARAH PALIN. That's enough for me!
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:Really? That going to far IMO. That he ain't bright is obvious, but no mentally handicapped person could ever be the President.
Originally posted by whozit:
Jon Stewart once called Bush a retard
The even-handed Chrisisall
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Quote:I would never ignore you Whoz...but I would enthusiastically ignore Fox, Rush, Laura, and the hysterical rantings of that traitor to the Democratic party and severe alchoholic Dennis Miller. Hollywood isn't a cable news network and they can blackball anybody they want...you're not in favor of the Fairness Doctrine are you? If not they can deal with or deal out anyone they don't like. Conservatives are so easy not to like.
Originally posted by whozit: Ignore is the word in your essay that jumped out at me, you and others "ignored" Barry's lack of experiance, slimey friends, and now lack of CHANGE. Jon Stewart once called Bush a retard, do you think Barry is going to get as much heat? As for funny Republicans, there are plenty, Dennis Miller, Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh and others who ar'nt afraid to be "Black Balled" in Hollywood. They're going to be in demand in the next 4 years.
If Jon Stewart calls Bush a retard, is that a bad thing?? Because I called him much worse yesterday...and today ain't over. And he deserves all of it because he's President right now and everything sucks, he was supposed to be the doorman and not let "suck" in. Republican pundits are getting lambasted even on Hannity for accusing Obama of ruining the country and causing the financial crisis when he's not the President.
I didn't vote for Obama's experience. I voted for him because he was smarter than McCain and Palin combined. I trust his intellect to make sound logical decisions. Not decisions based on the tyranny of evangelical dogma. McCain totaly sucked up to Bible thumpers. The dumbest Democrat is smarter than the smartest Evangelical any day, anywhere.
Only an absolute moron would think Ayers's existance would affect Obama's approach to leading the country. My garbage man snorted coke in front of my house, and I caught him...should I have denounced him and sold my house because I would have a continued connection with him? Republicans were begging for traction with that one, and because they didn't get it...they just whined louder. Boo hoo cry babys.
Whozit? Doesn't the fact that they got nothing! on Barack Obama...and that the only thing they could get was on people he knew...mean anything to you?
Every bit of ignoring of the Bible thumpers is neccessary for human survival. How many times between 2002-2006 did Bush ignore Democrats anyway?
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Quote:Mal...*trying hard not to laugh*
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Only an absolute moron would think Ayers's existance would affect Obama's approach to leading the country.
you do have a way with words... I trust you're not lookin' at anyone in particular when you say this...
The laughing out loud Chrisisall
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Quote:Glad to see Jonathan Frakes is doing some physical therapy for that neck problem of his. Seems his costars approve as well.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:Oh you know just who brings out the verbose in me Chris.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Mal...*trying hard not to laugh*
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
Only an absolute moron would think Ayers's existance would affect Obama's approach to leading the country.
you do have a way with words... I trust you're not lookin' at anyone in particular when you say this...
The laughing out loud Chrisisall
On a related note...I was really crushed the other day...once because my friend told me Sarah Silverman has a boyfriend, or girlfriend, either way....and the second time...did you know...that after Obama takes office on January 20th...Conservatives still get to talk?? That's right! mouth usage, jawin' n' whitlin', talking! at us!!! There should be a rule whereby loosers who belong to a deadly toxic demonstrably corrosive political party shouldn't be talking to a positive guy like me.
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Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
did you know...that after Obama takes office on January 20th...Conservatives still get to talk??
I guess we got to take the BAD with the good, eh?The bee-boppin' Chrisisall
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Quote:You're the actual positive guy then Chris, or at the very least diplomatic. Like George Schultz and not like Henry Kissinger.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The bee-boppin' Chrisisall
Not dissagreeing with anything in particular Capn'...it's just that back in the day there would have been actual "good" with that "bad", and the talking!
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Quote:The trouble with you big brains is you put IQ head of common sence. I do'nt give a rats ass how smart Barry is, he's briniging back the Clinton years, it was 8 years of scandal! He yelled CHANGE for 2 years, so were's the change? You big brains will bring up how great the Clinton years were, BUT WERE'S THE CHANGE! You've got your Democrat Whitehouse, House and Senate, WERE"S THE CHANGE! Now you guy's are in favor of corperate bailout, WERE"S THE CHANGE! Your tears will nurish me, yum I can taste them now.
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:Quote:I would never ignore you Whoz...but I would enthusiastically ignore Fox, Rush, Laura, and the hysterical rantings of that traitor to the Democratic party and severe alchoholic Dennis Miller. Hollywood isn't a cable news network and they can blackball anybody they want...you're not in favor of the Fairness Doctrine are you? If not they can deal with or deal out anyone they don't like. Conservatives are so easy not to like.
Originally posted by whozit: Ignore is the word in your essay that jumped out at me, you and others "ignored" Barry's lack of experiance, slimey friends, and now lack of CHANGE. Jon Stewart once called Bush a retard, do you think Barry is going to get as much heat? As for funny Republicans, there are plenty, Dennis Miller, Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh and others who ar'nt afraid to be "Black Balled" in Hollywood. They're going to be in demand in the next 4 years.
If Jon Stewart calls Bush a retard, is that a bad thing?? Because I called him much worse yesterday...and today ain't over. And he deserves all of it because he's President right now and everything sucks, he was supposed to be the doorman and not let "suck" in. Republican pundits are getting lambasted even on Hannity for accusing Obama of ruining the country and causing the financial crisis when he's not the President.
I didn't vote for Obama's experience. I voted for him because he was smarter than McCain and Palin combined. I trust his intellect to make sound logical decisions. Not decisions based on the tyranny of evangelical dogma. McCain totaly sucked up to Bible thumpers. The dumbest Democrat is smarter than the smartest Evangelical any day, anywhere.
Only an absolute moron would think Ayers's existance would affect Obama's approach to leading the country. My garbage man snorted coke in front of my house, and I caught him...should I have denounced him and sold my house because I would have a continued connection with him? Republicans were begging for traction with that one, and because they didn't get it...they just whined louder. Boo hoo cry babys.
Whozit? Doesn't the fact that they got nothing! on Barack Obama...and that the only thing they could get was on people he knew...mean anything to you?
Every bit of ignoring of the Bible thumpers is neccessary for human survival. How many times between 2002-2006 did Bush ignore Democrats anyway?
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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Quote:Well, one BIG one is we'll have no Presidents doing any extracurricular activities in the Oval Office, and then feelin' the weasely need to LIE TO CONGRESS about it...
Originally posted by whozit:
I do'nt give a rats ass how smart Barry is, he's briniging back the Clinton years, it was 8 years of scandal! He yelled CHANGE for 2 years, so were's the change?
There WILL be nookie in the White House once again, but the moral & wholesome kind- I'd call THAT quite a change, wouldn't you?
The frisky Chrisisall
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Quote:
So here's my challenge to the Whozit and AUraptor types: if in a few years America is chugging along decently, recovering from this horror that Bush put us through, with a steady economy, civil rights restored, the constitution once again honored, our youth not dying for oil company profits, etc, are you going to man up and admit that the BS you're going on about right now is completely and absolutely wrong?
Hell no.
They'll either hide under a rock with the rest of their brownshirted breathren until society has forgotten their crimes, or throw an endless tantrum since reality doesn't match the idealised world inside their little plastic bubble.
Just like they always do.
Me, I just wanna stomp on the rock they're hiding under, putting paid to a cycle that's haunted us for a hundred and more years and done damage uncounted to our whole society.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:Oh I'm a Nazi? Gee thanks for letting me know I was evil. I thought I was a nice guy. My guess is you would'nt know a Nazi if he burnt a cross in your front yard, I could be wrong bitch.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:Quote:
So here's my challenge to the Whozit and AUraptor types: if in a few years America is chugging along decently, recovering from this horror that Bush put us through, with a steady economy, civil rights restored, the constitution once again honored, our youth not dying for oil company profits, etc, are you going to man up and admit that the BS you're going on about right now is completely and absolutely wrong?
Hell no.
They'll either hide under a rock with the rest of their brownshirted breathren until society has forgotten their crimes, or throw an endless tantrum since reality doesn't match the idealised world inside their little plastic bubble.
Just like they always do.
Me, I just wanna stomp on the rock they're hiding under, putting paid to a cycle that's haunted us for a hundred and more years and done damage uncounted to our whole society.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
i'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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Quote:That is so funny...I don't do rhetorical LOL's, if I whip that weenie out it's for real. And I say LOLROFLMAO because!...you ain't gonna get nourished if you drink my tears. You're gonna notice an uneasy butterfly feeling first. Then visual halucinations, and soon after you'll realize that you're high as a kite from the Orange Sunshine, Purple microdot, four way window pane, and 50 lbs or so of magic mushroom residue radiating from the mothership, AKA my liver.
Originally posted by whozit: The trouble with you big brains is you put IQ head of common sence. I do'nt give a rats ass how smart Barry is, he's briniging back the Clinton years, it was 8 years of scandal! He yelled CHANGE for 2 years, so were's the change? You big brains will bring up how great the Clinton years were, BUT WERE'S THE CHANGE! You've got your Democrat Whitehouse, House and Senate, WERE"S THE CHANGE! Now you guy's are in favor of corperate bailout, WERE"S THE CHANGE! Your tears will nurish me, yum I can taste them now.
What is all this big brains stuff, I have a 2 year education that took me 3 years to get from 2 different community colleges. Then 1 year in mainland China. Don't you put that "elitist" jacket on me.
Do you actualy think that the detrement value of Clinton's one proven scandal, a blow job, is a detrement to Obama's cabinet because they were near Clinton when Monica was a huffin' and a puffin'? You Conservatives are not hesitant to convict anyone guilty "by proximity" to a blow job recipient, are you? Who frickken cares. Oh yeah, pent up evangelicals, Republicans, and hypocrits.
The only ones who threatened to throw everyone out of Washington was Republicans because everything sucks right now and it's thier fault. Democrats can vote with thier leaders 90% of the time because they're right. Democrats will try to change Americans, and America. Republicans always apply thier faults, problems, and shortcommings to Democrats. Then declare Democrats wrong if they don't act like Republicans, who currently have everything screwed up. That's play #1 in Rove's playbook. Takes a long time to unwind it.
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Quote:I give up. You Democrats rule now. NOW I DEMAND YOU FIX EVERYTHING! If you do'nt, it's YOUR FAULT! Now all the worlds problems are on your shoulders, FIX THEM! DO'NT BITCH, FIX THEM NOW! You wanted to be in charge, now fix it!
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:Quote:That is so funny...I don't do rhetorical LOL's, if I whip that weenie out it's for real. And I say LOLROFLMAO because!...you ain't gonna get nourished if you drink my tears. You're gonna notice an uneasy butterfly feeling first. Then visual halucinations, and soon after you'll realize that you're high as a kite from the Orange Sunshine, Purple microdot, four way window pane, and 50 lbs or so of magic mushroom residue radiating from the mothership, AKA my liver.
Originally posted by whozit: The trouble with you big brains is you put IQ head of common sence. I do'nt give a rats ass how smart Barry is, he's briniging back the Clinton years, it was 8 years of scandal! He yelled CHANGE for 2 years, so were's the change? You big brains will bring up how great the Clinton years were, BUT WERE'S THE CHANGE! You've got your Democrat Whitehouse, House and Senate, WERE"S THE CHANGE! Now you guy's are in favor of corperate bailout, WERE"S THE CHANGE! Your tears will nurish me, yum I can taste them now.
What is all this big brains stuff, I have a 2 year education that took me 3 years to get from 2 different community colleges. Then 1 year in mainland China. Don't you put that "elitist" jacket on me.
Do you actualy think that the detrement value of Clinton's one proven scandal, a blow job, is a detrement to Obama's cabinet because they were near Clinton when Monica was a huffin' and a puffin'? You Conservatives are not hesitant to convict anyone guilty "by proximity" to a blow job recipient, are you? Who frickken cares. Oh yeah, pent up evangelicals, Republicans, and hypocrits.
The only ones who threatened to throw everyone out was Republicans because everything sucks right now and it's thier fault. Democrats can vote with thier leaders 90% of the time because they're right. Republicans always apply thier faults, problems, and shortcommings to Democrats. Then declare Democrats wrong if they don't act like Republicans, who currently have everything screwed up. That's play #1 in Rove's playbook. Takes a long time to unwind it.
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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Quote:Not so fast there Whozit. I'm not sure how to break this to you.......But George Bush is still President till Jan 20th.
Originally posted by whozit: I give up. You Democrats rule now. NOW I DEMAND YOU FIX EVERYTHING! If you do'nt, it's YOUR FAULT! Now all the worlds problems are on your shoulders, FIX THEM! DO'NT BITCH, FIX THEM NOW! You wanted to be in charge, now fix it!
Save this and repost it on Jan 20th and it will be totaly relevant. Nice chatting with ya'
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Didn't call ya evil, Zit - I called ya stupid.
Not necessarily the same thing, but often related.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackShirt
And they usually end up...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DyingLikeAnimals
If I meant to call ya something else, I woulda - I tend to be damn specific when I get to insultin someone.
-F
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Quote:Well - and here's the thing that might give whozit a wittle bitty headache if he thinks about it too long - some of us base our common sense on such IQ related things as, say... logic. Reason. Facts. Oh, and the ability to spell.
Originally posted by whozit:
The trouble with you big brains is you put IQ head of common sence.
Still waiting on your input on my thought experiment, whozit. I know it's a stretch for someone who celebrates ignorance as you do, but give it a try: If the US is going strong 2 years from now, will you be able to admit that you're wrong? Will you be able to get over your biases and support Obama if he proves himself to be good for the country?
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I think Bush will go down as the worst president in history, but I've got 4 or 8 years to make up my mind on that. And then another 4 or 8 to make up my mind on that.....
Show me an Obama who undoes the Patriot Act and the Real ID card and I'll show you a guy who puts his foot in his mouth.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:I'm confused.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
but I've got 4 or 8 years to make up my mind on that. And then another 4 or 8 to make up my mind on that.....
Quote:And yet more confused...
Show me an Obama who undoes the Patriot Act and the Real ID card and I'll show you a guy who puts his foot in his mouth.
Certainly, if Obama did these two things, I'd be
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Quote:If Barry does a great job, then all my bitching will fall on deaf ears. Rite now Barry is getting a free pass, the comics wo'nt touch him, some are afraid, some support him. The press are his lap dogs, Sarah Palin got the vetting he should have gotten, a ZOGBY poll proved most Obama voters knew more about Palin then they did Barry. Your IQ is way higher than mine and you can spell better, but common sence tells me when Barry falls, he'll fall hard. His whores in the press can only do so much for him when his training wheels come off.
Originally posted by swish:Quote:Well - and here's the thing that might give whozit a wittle bitty headache if he thinks about it too long - some of us base our common sense on such IQ related things as, say... logic. Reason. Facts. Oh, and the ability to spell.
Originally posted by whozit:
The trouble with you big brains is you put IQ head of common sence.
Still waiting on your input on my thought experiment, whozit. I know it's a stretch for someone who celebrates ignorance as you do, but give it a try: If the US is going strong 2 years from now, will you be able to admit that you're wrong? Will you be able to get over your biases and support Obama if he proves himself to be good for the country?
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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Quote:The question is: if the country does well under "Barry", will you, for the love of God, STOP BITCHING? And think twice about inventing things to bitch about in the future?
Originally posted by whozit:
If Barry does a great job, then all my bitching will fall on deaf ears.
Quote:Have you followed up on that poll, and seen how obviously it was the same dishonest right-wing bullshit that lost McCain the election? As it's been said: the poll got stupid answers because it asked stupid questions. Zogby himself has stated that the poll was "not his finest hour", and has refused to do a follow-up, no matter who - lefty or righty - writes it.
does w Rite now Barry is getting a free pass, the comics wo'nt touch him, some are afraid, some support him. The press are his lap dogs, Sarah Palin got the vetting he should have gotten, a ZOGBY poll proved most Obama voters knew more about Palin then they did Barry.
As for Palin, she got nailed by the press because she's a doorknob. Just like you and AUraptor continually get nailed on these threads - because your arguments are pathetic. That's the price for hanging your ignorance and lack of open mind out for everyone to see, as Palin learned. Or should have learned. Try to be less of a tool and people won't treat you like one. Obama wasn't treated like an idiot because he makes an effort to not be one.
Quote:OK, it's clear how much I value your version of common sense (It's spelled s-e-n-s-e), but again I ask: will your brain open up at all if Obama proves you wrong? See, it's that making an effort not to be a fool thing. You too can try it - it's not about IQ, it's about giving a shit.
Your IQ is way higher than mine and you can spell better, but common sence tells me when Barry falls, he'll fall hard. His whores in the press can only do so much for him when his training wheels come off.
Yes, I'm having an aggravating day on many levels
and I'm venting on you poor folks here. I may have to apologize later...
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Quote:If Barry proves me wrong I will drop to me knees and kiss your LEFT butt check, if he fails.........we all will be in trouble.
Originally posted by swish:Quote:The question is: if the country does well under "Barry", will you, for the love of God, STOP BITCHING? And think twice about inventing things to bitch about in the future?
Originally posted by whozit:
If Barry does a great job, then all my bitching will fall on deaf ears.Quote:Have you followed up on that poll, and seen how obviously it was the same dishonest right-wing bullshit that lost McCain the election? As it's been said: the poll got stupid answers because it asked stupid questions. Zogby himself has stated that the poll was "not his finest hour", and has refused to do a follow-up, no matter who - lefty or righty - writes it.
does w Rite now Barry is getting a free pass, the comics wo'nt touch him, some are afraid, some support him. The press are his lap dogs, Sarah Palin got the vetting he should have gotten, a ZOGBY poll proved most Obama voters knew more about Palin then they did Barry.
As for Palin, she got nailed by the press because she's a doorknob. Just like you and AUraptor continually get nailed on these threads - because your arguments are pathetic. That's the price for hanging your ignorance and lack of open mind out for everyone to see, as Palin learned. Or should have learned. Try to be less of a tool and people won't treat you like one. Obama wasn't treated like an idiot because he makes an effort to not be one.Quote:OK, it's clear how much I value your version of common sense (It's spelled s-e-n-s-e), but again I ask: will your brain open up at all if Obama proves you wrong? See, it's that making an effort not to be a fool thing. You too can try it - it's not about IQ, it's about giving a shit.
Your IQ is way higher than mine and you can spell better, but common sence tells me when Barry falls, he'll fall hard. His whores in the press can only do so much for him when his training wheels come off.
Yes, I'm having an aggravating day on many levels
I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin
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Quote:No thanks, I don't need lip prints on my ass. See, I'm not like you. I don't care (nearly as much
Originally posted by whozit:
If Barry proves me wrong I will drop to me knees and kiss your LEFT butt check,
) about being proven right or wrong. I'd rather have this country not suck, no matter what it takes and who leads us there. And I'd like to see fewer Americans celebrating their biases as if prejudice and ignorance makes for greatness.Quote:Um... yeah, no shit. Though you might note that we're in trouble already, through none of Barack Obama's doing. And you might deal with his failure if and when it happens, instead of jumping up and down hoping for it, hmmm?
if he fails.........we all will be in trouble.
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Quote:
Originally posted by swish:Quote:I'm confused.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
but I've got 4 or 8 years to make up my mind on that. And then another 4 or 8 to make up my mind on that.....Quote:And yet more confused...
Show me an Obama who undoes the Patriot Act and the Real ID card and I'll show you a guy who puts his foot in his mouth.
Certainly, if Obama did these two things, I'd be
He didn't do them, he's just part of the two party machine that does these things. He won't undo them, I can all but guaranty that.
We'll talk in 4 years....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:Sadly, I tend to agree. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we have firmly entered the Age of Paranoid Near-Police State, and it's not going to go away soon.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
He won't undo them, I can all but guaranty that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by swish:Quote:Sadly, I tend to agree. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we have firmly entered the Age of Paranoid Near-Police State, and it's not going to go away soon.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
He won't undo them, I can all but guaranty that.
Yes, and it was brought to you by George W. Bush.
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Ayep - where's Eddie Murrow when ya need him.
As Geezer has pointed out a couple times, we have indeed stooped lower, but have always rebounded, although not entirely - we never do get back all the ground we lose, and eventually, if we keep putting these Neo-Feudo-Fascist wannabes in office, like a decaying orbit, sooner or later it WILL lead to our destruction.
Never, EVER, forget this moment - or 12-15 years down the road when everyone has, it'll happen all over again, just like it always does, because no one ever has the guts to put the boot in and finish the job.
And that's not regarding any party in particular, cause both of em are every bit as guilty of harboring such.
However, sending the rabid dog away in hopes it will die on it's own soon has never worked, it just gets sneakier, meaner, and more dangerous.
What we oughta do is run the bastards to ground, root em out and throw em in prison, but so many americans are such damn fools wrapped up in their own beloved ignorance, intolerance and learned sociopathy that it would be hard to do so without irreperable damage to the very fabric of our society - not that such would bother me considering the evil from which that cloth was woven, I'd be more concerned about it sparking a witch hunt a'la McCarthy and doing more harm than good.
This is history, REMEMBER it, or pay the price.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:Well, that's a little extreme. Cause if you can do that to support your side, what's to stop Them from doing it to support Their's?
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
What we oughta do is run the bastards to ground, root em out and throw em in prison,
It's all a big pendulum. We had our ultra conservative 50s (Nothing happening now is as scary as McCarthy and his Red Hunt, not in my opinion!), the liberal 60s and 70s and then a conservative swing that seems to be ending now. But - I read an article about this, it's not my idea - this country is not near so right-center and some radio yammerheads would have us believe. Don't Ask, Don't Tell is going down the tubes, gay marriage is on the way in (prop 8 will be go down, by 2010 if not sooner), and could you have imagined any of that in the 80s? How about a woman with a pregnant teenaged daughter running on the Republican Ticket? Never mind a black man winning the presidency! We've traveled quite a bit left on many issues, even with the right in power.
Yeah, I think things slowly trend toward sanity, even with the swinging back and forth. We certainly will repeat the madness in 15-20 years, but I think it'll be less extreme.
Um... that's not to say that everything about conservatism is madness. I'm all for small govt. It's just the neocon/religious part that I find more than a little insane.
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Swish, I like your style.
The sympatico Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by swish:Quote:Sadly, I tend to agree. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we have firmly entered the Age of Paranoid Near-Police State, and it's not going to go away soon.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
He won't undo them, I can all but guaranty that.
Yes, and it was brought to you by George W. Bush.
He certainly took it further than any administration in my lifetime has, but he's hardly the point at which we can say it started.
There are two important weapons he had in his arsenal that his predessors didn't possess.
1) Technology. Cell phones. Cheap cameras at every light and peeking out every store window. Networked police who can pull up every single thing about your past no matter what state of the Union you're in. Centralized databases on almost every single thing you can imagine on nearly all of us. And let's not forget our beloved internet.
2) A seemingly endless supply of money printed unConstitutionally to support all of these things and a centralized government that is becoming larger than the whole of the populace it is supposed to be serving.
Quick fact.... none of these things will go away in 2009. Obama's administration will have free reign over all of them, and more I would imagine by 2012.
No..... Bush didn't start the fire, though he did everything he could do in his power to feed it.
Show me an Obama who puts a stop to it and you'll all have my appreciation for voting him in. Sadly, I think we're in for 4 more years of this now, and possibly many more until we get somebody who isn't part of the 2-headed-monster-machine running things.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Yeah, I think things slowly trend toward sanity......
good post Swish...
It's called Progress.... something that has been lacking for eight years...
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Yeah, I think things slowly trend toward sanity......
good post Swish...
It's called Progress.... something that has been lacking for eight years...
If it really had only been going on for 8 years I could only imagine how good things would be today in comparison.....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Quick fact.... none of these things will go away in 2009. Obama's administration will have free reign over all of them, and more I would imagine by 2012.
No..... Bush didn't start the fire, though he did everything he could do in his power to feed it.
Show me an Obama who puts a stop to it and you'll all have my appreciation for voting him in. Sadly, I think we're in for 4 more years of this now, and possibly many more until we get somebody who isn't part of the 2-headed-monster-machine running things.
Well... yeah. That's the Number One reason those of us who were against this kind of shit were against it in the first place. Not because Bush might abuse it (that was a given), but because EVERYONE who follows will feel free to do the same, and worse. THAT is why you don't let that particular djinni out of the bottle, even if you think you have legitimate reasons for doing so, because you'll never get him all the way back in...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Quick fact.... none of these things will go away in 2009. Obama's administration will have free reign over all of them, and more I would imagine by 2012.
No..... Bush didn't start the fire, though he did everything he could do in his power to feed it.
Show me an Obama who puts a stop to it and you'll all have my appreciation for voting him in. Sadly, I think we're in for 4 more years of this now, and possibly many more until we get somebody who isn't part of the 2-headed-monster-machine running things.
Well... yeah. That's the Number One reason those of us who were against this kind of shit were against it in the first place. Not because Bush might abuse it (that was a given), but because EVERYONE who follows will feel free to do the same, and worse. THAT is why you don't let that particular djinni out of the bottle, even if you think you have legitimate reasons for doing so, because you'll never get him all the way back in...
Well on that, Kwicko, we can agree upon 100%
It's much harder to put the shit back in the horse, particularly a Trojan one.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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"Progress",
"Hope",
"Yes we Can!",
"Yes We Did!",
"Barrack the Vote"
The power of mass labeling to pull the wool over peoples eyes...
In the age of propoganda marketing, is it any wonder?
Catchphrases. *Sighhh :masturbatory gesture:
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Quote:
THAT is why you don't let that particular djinni out of the bottle, even if you think you have legitimate reasons for doing so, because you'll never get him all the way back in...
I thought about this a while, while eatin lunch here...
And yanno, pondering it leaves me wondering, they said the BDM was impossible too, yes ?
Easy, no - but as for ramming that damn genie back in the bottle, while it might well not be possible, there's really no excuse to not try.
I don't believe in "impossible", haven't since being flat out told I wasn't gonna make it back in 1992, and I am still kickin, now ain't I ?
Ain't no such damn thing as "impossible" if enough folks want something badly enough.
-F
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Right on, Frem & Jack - just cuz it's impossible don't mean it ain't worth tryin' anyhoo!
I don't think we'll get everything back that we gave away (or Bush took), but that's certainly no reason not to try to stomp the bastards down. Anyone remember Weasel Stomping Day?
It's time again.
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Quote:Um, thanks. Not my ideas, but I'll take some credit for regurgitating.
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Yeah, I think things slowly trend toward sanity......
good post Swish...
It's called Progress.... something that has been lacking for eight years...
Yes, progress would be nice for a change. Though one could figure that Bush made progress Since he got a whole lot of anti-neocons pissed off enough to get involved in politics.
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I have followed this discussion with some mirth and some angst and finally felt impelled to write, something that goes against my lurkers code ;-)
I am the guy both political parties hate. I am a moderate. I haven't voted a straight party ticket in my life. It is my opinion that both parties have some of it right and some of it wrong.
I find it funny in a dark way that smart people can pick apart the opposition and rightly castigate the politicoes of one stripe and then completely ignore and/or explain away the same things when their side does it. I can't be the only person who sees it but sometimes, like when I read threads like this I begin to think so.
I wish Barak Obama well. He has been dumped in a pile of feces and there is no way out without making a mess. His campaign was intentionally vague and allowed everyone rightly sick of the current situation to paint their hopes on him. There is now no way he can deliver. I think that he will probably a one term president.
I think the Republicans have some good points. IMHO they are as follows:
1. As a General Rule, less government is better.
2. It is better for me and you to spend our money the way we see fit vs. giving it to the government and having them spend it.
3. Personal firearms don't garantee freedom but they do make politicians more wary of fiat declarations.
4. A strong, seldom used, military is the best defense against a complex and unruley world.
5. We shouldn't build up a debt for our children to pay (even though our folks did it).
They have gone awry in the following areas in my humble opinion:
1. You can't Legislate morality. Attempts to do this lead towards inquisition.
2. Rumsfeld (I wonder how the man sleeps at night) who said we can sorta have a war and still have a good economy.
3. Attacking Iraq. (Afgainistan is another story).
4. Money can't fix everything.
IMHO, the Democrats have it right in the following ways:
1. We need to take better care of the planet as there are too many of us.
2. While we are all born with different talents, we should all have the opportunity to use them.
3. The best investment we have ever made in this country is public education. Dispite all the grief and redundancy and ineffiency, we went from a frontier economy to world power in 150 years.
I seriously wonder about the following:
1. There is a perception that there is an easy way out of the poverty cycle. There isn't, I learned this teaching low income students. The ones that make it out are smart, motivated, and work like dogs. No amount of money can give that to anyone.
2. Business is bad for America.
3. Everyone will leave us alone if we disarm and stay home. Unfortunately, since we are wealthy, others are think that they have a right to what we have earned.
4. McNamara (see Rumsfeld), If you are too young, look him up. Think Rumsfeld with red hair and a Democrat in the 60's.
5. Money can't fix everything.
To set the record straight, I am laughing at no one's pain. In this year's election, we needed someone with gumption, brains, and charisma. What we got from both parties was second rate politicians. Sometimes, from the back bench we get greatness, but I don't see it here. Where have the people like Truman, Reagan, and Theodore Rooosevelt gone? We need them now.
There, I vented my spleen. I suspect I have pissed some of you off. My apologies, but if I made you think a bit, then maybe there is some value here.
My shields are up and I stand ready ;-)
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Welcome to the shark infested pool that is RWED, Startroop.
You ain't offended me, I for one welcome folk who reason and think even if I don't agree.
Although you can keep Truman, Reagan and Roz, lol.
By choice if I could clone a president right now it would probably be Eisenhower.
-F
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I actually think a lot of Eisenhower. He was a hell of a politician and could make a decision. One of my treasured books growing up was "At Ease, Stories I Tell With My Friends", that he wrote. It wasn't an official biography, just stories about his life.
I would settle for someone with the good sense of an Eisenhower. I am very unhappy with the choices I was left with this year.
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Quote:Eisenhower was so rational, how about Goldwater even though he wasn't President? a little to fire of the godsey?
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
By choice if I could clone a president right now it would probably be Eisenhower.
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Quote:I like Ike.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
By choice if I could clone a president right now it would probably be Eisenhower.
The Indy-like Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by startroop:
I have followed this discussion with some mirth and some angst and finally felt impelled to write, something that goes against my lurkers code ;-)
I am the guy both political parties hate. I am a moderate. I haven't voted a straight party ticket in my life. It is my opinion that both parties have some of it right and some of it wrong.
I find it funny in a dark way that smart people can pick apart the opposition and rightly castigate the politicoes of one stripe and then completely ignore and/or explain away the same things when their side does it. I can't be the only person who sees it but sometimes, like when I read threads like this I begin to think so.
I wish Barak Obama well. He has been dumped in a pile of feces and there is no way out without making a mess. His campaign was intentionally vague and allowed everyone rightly sick of the current situation to paint their hopes on him. There is now no way he can deliver. I think that he will probably a one term president.
I think the Republicans have some good points. IMHO they are as follows:
1. As a General Rule, less government is better.
2. It is better for me and you to spend our money the way we see fit vs. giving it to the government and having them spend it.
3. Personal firearms don't garantee freedom but they do make politicians more wary of fiat declarations.
4. A strong, seldom used, military is the best defense against a complex and unruley world.
5. We shouldn't build up a debt for our children to pay (even though our folks did it).
They have gone awry in the following areas in my humble opinion:
1. You can't Legislate morality. Attempts to do this lead towards inquisition.
2. Rumsfeld (I wonder how the man sleeps at night) who said we can sorta have a war and still have a good economy.
3. Attacking Iraq. (Afgainistan is another story).
4. Money can't fix everything.
IMHO, the Democrats have it right in the following ways:
1. We need to take better care of the planet as there are too many of us.
2. While we are all born with different talents, we should all have the opportunity to use them.
3. The best investment we have ever made in this country is public education. Dispite all the grief and redundancy and ineffiency, we went from a frontier economy to world power in 150 years.
I seriously wonder about the following:
1. There is a perception that there is an easy way out of the poverty cycle. There isn't, I learned this teaching low income students. The ones that make it out are smart, motivated, and work like dogs. No amount of money can give that to anyone.
2. Business is bad for America.
3. Everyone will leave us alone if we disarm and stay home. Unfortunately, since we are wealthy, others are think that they have a right to what we have earned.
4. McNamara (see Rumsfeld), If you are too young, look him up. Think Rumsfeld with red hair and a Democrat in the 60's.
5. Money can't fix everything.
To set the record straight, I am laughing at no one's pain. In this year's election, we needed someone with gumption, brains, and charisma. What we got from both parties was second rate politicians. Sometimes, from the back bench we get greatness, but I don't see it here. Where have the people like Truman, Reagan, and Theodore Rooosevelt gone? We need them now.
There, I vented my spleen. I suspect I have pissed some of you off. My apologies, but if I made you think a bit, then maybe there is some value here.
My shields are up and I stand ready ;-)
You have to WONDER about McNamara? You seemed reasonable until that, but you did admit you were a teacher, and implied an public school version.
Welcome to the un-lurked. FFF is actually the only forum that I didn't lurk at, jumped right in when I found it.
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I don't wonder about McNamara except perhaps how he slept at night. I do teach, at a university. I am a product of both public and private schools. As to why I feel the way I do, I wasn't always a professor. I started life as a career officer in the military and was injured in an aircraft accident. I saw the results of both McNamara's and Rumsfled's policies first hand.
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Quote:Startroop, THIS is where I had a problem..REAGAN??? Sure he was a good TV President, but *coughIRAN-CONTRA* He was the puppet theatre personified- he was a simple thinker, & clueless as to the actual machinations of the CIA, North's actions, the Sandinistas and most everything else. He didn't wanna bluff the Soviet Union into over-extending themselves, he actually thought that Star Wars defense thing COULD WORK!! It happened to have the desired effect by accident! C'mon, you're a teacher, please explain you admiration for this guy...?
Originally posted by startroop:
Where have the people like Truman, Reagan, and Theodore Rooosevelt gone? We need them now.
The curious Chrisisall
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It is pretty clear we have differing perceptions of Ronald Reagan. I'll hit this on two levels. First, I'll be as clear as I can on why I think he was among our top ten presidents. THen I want to ask you about what you mean by some of the statements you make denigrating Reagan.
Why I think he was an excellent president:
1. He was a good judge of people and could attract first rate people to work for him. With a couple of significant errors, he was able to entice bright, aggressive people to work for him and then get them to work together as a team.
2. He could make a decision. So many of our politicians waffle. This includes the current president (I have nothing yet to judge the president elect on). As a former military aviator, I was taught and came to believe that you need to make a decision at the right time and that the wrong decision pursued with enough aggression that occurs at the right time is often better than the perfect answer given too late.
3. He was charismatic (I think you used the term "TV President"). He had the ability to unite a large percentage of a America behind an idea. He understood political theater and how to inspire. I could give you examples but for the sake of brevity, Roosevelt and Truman both played that game well too.
4. He was able to articulate problems so that most people could understand them. He was really an able communicator.
5. He was pursuasive. He could sell not only the public but heads of corporations and heads of state on his ideas.
I do think though that he started the process too late. In the last year of his presidency, it was clear that his mental processes were slipping. Who ever was able to get to him first on an issue usually got their way and like FDR, his wife ran the show a lot more near then end then we will likely ever know.
You mentioned the Iran/Contra fiasco. He was the president and Commnader in Chief so he was responsible for the actions of his subordinates.
Having said that it clearly wasn't his idea. He thought on a much grander scale. This was obviously someone (probably several someones) in middle level government who couldn't get their agenda funded and so went through the back door. I can't concieve of how they thought that they could keep something like that a secret. They clearly chose to reach a short term goal at the expense of a long term policy. History has and will judge them accordingly. I knew there was a coverup when the scape goat was Lt. Col. Ollie North. He was obviously the cut out man.
You did make two statements that I am curious about:
1. Reagan was a simple thinker. What precisely does that mean?
2. You also said that he obviously believed in "Star Wars" and that it wasn't designed to over extend the Soviet Union. How do you know that?
The concept of over extending the Soviet Union's resource base was ongoing long before he left the Screen Actor's Guild and the Democratic Party. What he did was to utilize his ability to play political theater to get the Soviet Union to put up or shut up. They had for years avoided issues when it became clear that they couldn't win in a competition. He made them lose face. He obviously couldn't say "I am only doing this for the benefit of the Societ Union" and make it work. To be beleiveable, it had had to seem real.
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Quote:Okay, now I got a bead on your age- you are clearly under forty.
Originally posted by startroop:
Having said that it clearly wasn't his idea. He thought on a much grander scale. This was obviously someone (probably several someones) in middle level government who couldn't get their agenda funded and so went through the back door.
Reagan told Ollie North to "Help the Contras, I don't want another Cuba in this part of the world." He didn't tell him how to do it, and he didn't wanna know. Plausible deniability, you see. Ollie was prepared to take the fall if it got out, and saw himself as a patriot for doing so. The slimy horrors the Contra were capable of were kept from Reagan, who thought them comparable to the 'rebels' in Star Wars.Quote:Read the Reagan Diaries for a taste, he makes no conclusions, no analysis, & displays no critical thinking beyond that of a 12th grader doing an assignment. He offers up thoughtful nuggets like "Getting shot hurts."
1. Reagan was a simple thinker. What precisely does that mean?
Quote:He didn't understand the science involved with what he was talking about, or how impossible to achieve it was (I did, and I found it preposterous). If he had any inkling that the idiots in the Kremlin were gonna do themselves in by trying to keep up, it wasn't from his initial understanding of the overall issue. He simply believed we could outdo them technologically- remember, he was old-time, cordless phones were like science fiction to him.
2. You also said that he obviously believed in "Star Wars" and that it wasn't designed to over extend the Soviet Union. How do you know that?
(The preceding was merely an opinion based on available data)
His main strength was the same one Kennedy had- if he said it, he meant it.
Doesn't mean he always understood it.
The winky Chrisisall
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Under forty? Thank you ;-) I haven't been under forty since Clinton was in the White House ;-)
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Deleted for gross inaccuracy.
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Don't forget the utter financial mess that Jimmy Carter left for him too.....
14% interest rates
12% un-employment
Reagan's tax cuts to business helped create millions of new jobs, and by the end of his first term interest & un-emploment rates were back in the single digits. Carter left the country's economy actually worse than Bush is leaving it by a long shot. Reagan's Admininstration also pushed Gorbachev into Peristroika and openness, which ultimately led to the end of the Soviet Union.
Not too shabby a legacy for a guy who made movies with monkeys.
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Quote:True.
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Don't forget the utter financial mess that Jimmy Carter left for him too.....
14% interest rates
12% un-employment
Reagan's tax cuts to business helped create millions of new jobs, and by the end of his first term interest & un-emploment rates were back in the single digits.
Quote:I wouldn't go THAT far, SONNY.
Carter left the country's economy actually worse than Bush is leaving it by a long shot.
Quote:If ya look at it that way....
Reagan's Admininstration also pushed Gorbachev into Peristroika and openness, which ultimately led to the end of the Soviet Union.
Not too shabby a legacy for a guy who made movies with monkeys.
I just wished he'd been a little more pro-active when it came to being aware of what the black bag guys were up to, in that area he was clueless.
The bagging Chrisisall
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Son, I was on that mission. I have friends now long dead whose memory I will not profane by dragging out the details of that night in this forum. I will say this one thing. The failure of that mission was NOT a set up to win political points.
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Quote:If my info on the sand shields is incorrect, I'd like to know- but if I offended you in any way with any perceived glibness on my part, I apologize, I'm just kinda shoot from the hip that way, don't mean to be insensitive.
Originally posted by startroop:
Son, I was on that mission. I have friends now long dead whose memory I will not profane by dragging out the details of that night in this forum. I will say this one thing. The failure of that mission was NOT a set up to win political points.
And if you don't respond, I'll understand.
The sometimes-foot-in-mouth Chrisisall
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No, I don't think you ever, will, really understand. I will tell you this much, it is pretty clear to me that you have never been involved or seriously studied military aviation.
People who fly for a living and esspecially who are going in harm's way do not leave the preparation of their aircraft to amateurs or to chance.
The CIA never has had anything to do with aircraft maintenance or preparation of aircraft for the regular military. They don't have the experience or frankly the trust of the active military to be trusted to do as much as bring a sack lunch. That has been true since WWII and the OSS. All of their exploits come from the various aviation front companies they have built. Your premise falls flat on it's face.
It's also pretty clear you are prone to throw stones at passing cars and then profess ignorance that your actions cause anger or might even be a bit inappropriate.
If you are as old as you suggest, perhaps it's time you grew up a bit and thought about the consequences of your actions.
It is also clear I would be better served not raising my blood pressure by reading this thread anymore. I wish you all well.
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Quote:Suggestion noted.
Originally posted by startroop:
If you are as old as you suggest, perhaps it's time you grew up a bit and thought about the consequences of your actions.
Apology expanded.
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Quote:
The CIA never has had anything to do with aircraft maintenance or preparation of aircraft for the regular military. They don't have the experience or frankly the trust of the active military to be trusted to do as much as bring a sack lunch.
Entirely correct.
And should you still be reading if not posting to, this thread, I completely understand your feelings on the matter and reluctance to discuss what little you'd be able to discuss anyhows.
It's a hell of a thing to get stuck with an impossible suck job, try to do it, have things go to hell in a handbasket, and then get crapped on and blamed by the very folk that you TOLD it was near impossible in the first place.
The only situation I can remember worse were the last relief flights going into Biafra, getting in was hard enough, getting out again was a miracle.
Don't wind yourself up over it Startroop, ok ?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Oh yes, and Chris ?
Not all black baggers are by default, bad folk.
General Odom wasn't, Col Hackworth wasn't - others who I'll not name cause they're still alive, ain't either.
Nor do all of them, or even the better ones, work directly for Unca Sam.
Just for reference.
-F
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Quote:That's a point worth making, I mean, technically, isn't Bond one at times?
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Oh yes, and Chris ?
Not all black baggers are by default, bad folk.
I just feel badly that I opened up a wound in a fellow Browncoat by way of my own ignorance.
The arrogant Chrisisall
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I am still lurking, I posted originally on a whim. Probably safer that way ;-) As to getting wound up, it's a little late, I was not really able to function well yesterday at all. That and other misconceptions are floating around about that mission and frankly most of them are made up by people with very limited understanding of the events in question with a political agenda. Frem is right, I can't dispell most of them legally even though most are fecal matter.
To Chris, yes, you poked at an old wound and yes it burst in your face. I should have had more control. Unfortunately, when you pop off with something half baked like that, it casts doubt on everything else you said, valid or not.
This goes back to my original premise that where politics are concerned, people are selectively blind. 
I don't know the answer to that one. Frankly, I am not sure I know how to accurately frame the question.
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Quote:Again, sincere apologies.
Originally posted by startroop:
As to getting wound up, it's a little late, I was not really able to function well yesterday at all.
Quote:For what it's worth, it taught me something, and for that I thank you. I shall try to choose my words more carefully, and leave partisan rumours by the wayside.
To Chris, yes, you poked at an old wound and yes it burst in your face. I should have had more control. Unfortunately, when you pop off with something half baked like that, it casts doubt on everything else you said, valid or not.
The grateful Chrisisall
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