Gun Rights Advocates Please explain how the hell this happened

POSTED BY: FutureMrsFIllion
UPDATED: Monday, July 10, 2023 16:51
VIEWED: 8371
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FUTUREMRSFILLION

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:40 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_re_us/boy_shoots_himself;_yl
t=AoONwR50wI3mA3TI1CFX3hqs0NUE

eta: let me just say that I can think of NO REASON to allow a child to fire an Uzi.

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"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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KWICKO

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:49 AM

Somebody was stupid enough to let an 8 year-old kid shoot a fully-automatic Uzi Micro submachinegun? My hardcore gun buddies tell me that's an almost impossible weapon for a seasoned pro to control on full auto - and with a firing rate of 1700 rounds per minute, just a short "blip" on the trigger unleashes a whole assload of rounds.

I was learning to shoot firearms at around that age and younger, but never something like that.

My personal opinion is that it was a bad choice by the dad and by the instructor, with a tragic result.

Mike

ETA - It's not just that it's an Uzi; it's an Uzi Micro, a very short model with a short stock and a very short barrel. I'm told it WANTS to torque itself up and out of your hand, and that it damn near requires a two-handed death grip just to fire it. Sounds like a bit of a useless gun to me, more of a hazard to the user than to the target.

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:55 AM

I know that the best method of gun safety is to teach children from a young age to handle and respect them.

But this is beyond fucking ridiculous. I feel so bad for these parents and yet want to take off the fathers arm and beat him to death with it.

eta: why the hell does anyone-child or adult-need a gun like that if they are not in the middle of a battle during war?

And where was the professional? WTF was he thinking?

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

Trolls Against McCain

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi

KWICKO

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 4:05 AM

Quote:

I know that the best method of gun safety is to teach children from a young age to handle and respect them.

But this is beyond fucking ridiculous. I feel so bad for these parents and yet want to take off the fathers arm and beat him to death with it.

eta: why the hell does anyone-child or adult-need a gun like that if they are not in the middle of a battle during war?

And where was the professional? WTF was he thinking?

Can't say as I disagree with any particular point, ma'am. If I had my 'druthers, I *might* want a weapon with a "select fire" capability that could fire a two- or three-round burst, but I have no use at all for a full-auto machinegun. It's a waste of ammo, and they're not accurate, because you can't stay on target when the damned thing's jumping all over the place while you're trying to "spray and pray".

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:58 AM

"Gun Rights Advocates Please explain how the hell this happened"

Hello,

The father was a dumbass, and so was the range master.

Like most tragic, avoidable deaths, a dumbass was involved.

It's less a gun issue than it is a dumbass issue.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

KHYRON

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
It's less a gun issue than it is a dumbass issue.

Just want to add: If it's got something to do with guns, there generally will be dumbasses involved.

------------------------------

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FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:57 AM

Indeed - I avoid those people, and happen to be rather notorious and savage when it comes to horseplay, violations of the four rules, or unsafe practices.

I *WILL* take a gun away from you if you're endangering people with it - almost had a serious problem with that at one range, where a would be gangsta and his buddies were waving around his "nine" and incidently muzzle sweeping folk with it, AFTER loading a clip.

The RO didn't have time to get to his ass before he wound up on the floor staring up at me ejecting his mag and throwing it downrange, removing the slide, and tossing the pieces in his lap, accompanied by a verbal diatribe that would have had R Lee Ermey applauding in approval.

He wanted to press charges, even called the cops, who, when the facts of the matter became clear, that in fact he had POINTED A LOADED GUN AT ME, negligently or not, then asked ME if I wanted to press charges, to which I declined, since the RO had banned him from the range, and if he didn't learn from that, he just ain't gonna.

But you get dumbasses, like any other powerful and dangerous tool, a gun can hurt you if you're stupid with it, and I file this incident right beside someone stupid enough to let an eight year old play with a circular saw, it's asking for trouble, it is.

Kid that age, you start em with a .22LR rifle, or even an airgun, and then move up as their coordination, experience and maturity allows it.

The parent was a damned fool, the RO was completely negligent, and a *completely avoidable* tragedy resulted, it's no simpler than that.

Anarchist in general I might be, but when it comes to weapon safely, imma downright jackbooted fascist about it, you have to be, or someones gonna get hurt.

Sadly, all the laws and rules in the world will not prevent people from being stupid, only people themselves can prevent that.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_re_us/boy_shoots_himself;_yl
t=AoONwR50wI3mA3TI1CFX3hqs0NUE

eta: let me just say that I can think of NO REASON to allow a child to fire an Uzi.

This kids father or the instructor or both are irresponsible idiot. This is the kind of accident that should be easily recognized as a likely possibility when an 8-year old boy is allowed to shoot a fully automatic weapon. The father obviously knew little about these kinds of weapons, and the instructor doesn’t seem to have known very much himnself. Although the police ruled the incident an accident, which I agree with, I’m not sure it should absolve the father and/or the instructor from being charged. Obviously it’s too late to charge the father as an unfit parent, but I’m not sure this situation is beyond charging the instructor with some form of reckless endangerment.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

GEEZER

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
eta: why the hell does anyone-child or adult-need a gun like that if they are not in the middle of a battle during war?

Because, used responsibly, they can be a lot of fun to shoot. Just like it can be a lot of fun to drive a BMW M3 (which no one really needs) fast as it'll go, if you do so on a track with proper precautions.

In this case, the dad and RSO used poor judgement and the child paid the price. Unfortunately, when you try to make something foolproof, Nature just comes along with a better fool.

Edit to add:

Every day kids are killed because their parents didn't properly secure them in car seats, or were driving while distracted, tired, or drunk. These deaths seldom make a big splash in the news. Car or gun, it's mistakes by those responsible for the child that cause the tragedy.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

HERO

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
The father was a dumbass, and so was the range master.

Like most tragic, avoidable deaths, a dumbass was involved.

It's less a gun issue than it is a dumbass issue.

Well said.

Speaking as a lawyer this is a huge lawsuit. I mean even rollercoasters and bumper cars have the 'you must be this tall' signs.

Speaking as a prosecutor, Mass. gun laws allow children to fire weapons if they have a parent's permission. So firing the gun was not illegal. I doubt the range guy has any criminal liability and if he does not then neither does the father. The only possible charge is Child Endangerment and under these circumstances and without more information I would not authorize such a charge.

As a gun rights guy I have no problem with allowing folks to "rock and roll" and even kids with parental permission. But little kids (say 12 or less) should not be firing full auto submachineguns any more then they should be firing .50 Desert Eagle handguns.

I learned gun safety from my dad, who is a retired cop. It was always the MOST serious business. I didn't fire a handgun until I was 12 and I was 14 when he first let me shoot the AR-15 and M-1, before that I was restricted to the .22 and my .30-06.

H

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