McCain Voted To Protect Domestic Terrorists
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 7, 2008 23:46
VIEWED: 1576
PAGE 1 of 1
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/06/mccain-abotion-bombers/
Quote:Anybody on the right care to explain?
This morning on CBS’s Early Show, McCain-Palin campaign spokesperson Nancy Pfotenhauer attempted to defend Gov. Sarah Palin’s (R-AZ) debunked claims that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) has been “palling around” with former radical William Ayers. Referencing a recent New York Times article, Pfotenhauer claimed that if McCain “hung out with somebody who had bombed abortion clinics” it would be a legitimate topic of discussion. She explained:
PFOTENHAUER: "The article also concluded is that if Senator McCain had hung out with somebody who had bombed abortion clinics, no one would consider [raising the issue] illegitimate."
Pfotenhauer’s invocation of abortion clinic bombers in defense of McCain is ironic given that McCain has repeatedly voted against protecting Americans from domestic terrorists in the anti-choice movement. On multiple occasions throughout his career, McCain sought to limit the government’s ability to punish violent anti-choice fanatics by:
– Voting against making anti-choice violence a federal crime. As the Jed Report notes, McCain voted in 1993 and 1994 against making “bombings, arson and blockades at abortion clinics, and shootings and threats of violence against doctors and nurses who perform abortions” federal crimes.
– Opposing Colorado’s “Bubble Law.” McCain said he opposed Colorado’s “Bubble Law,” which prohibited abortion protesters from getting within 8 feet of women entering clinics [Denver Post, 2/27/00]. The law was later upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.
– Voting to allow those fined for violence at clinics to avoid penalties by declaring bankruptcy. NARAL Pro-Chioce America notes that McCain “voted to allow perpetrators of violence or harassment at reproductive-health clinics to avoid paying the fines assessed against them for their illegal acts by declaring bankruptcy.”
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So nobody wants to explain McCain's voting record?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Anybody on the right care to explain?
Not necessary to be on the Right to see how this might happen. Could be that these provisions were added to other legislation Sen. McCain opposed. Without knowing the particular bills (which weren't cited) it's hard to know exactly what portions of them Sen. McCain was actually against.
Recall that both Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama voted against bills funding the troops in Iraq. McCain voted against a bill with withdrawal timetables, and Obama against a bill without them. Thus, both voted against funding our troops.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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McCain and Palin must keep throwing logs onto the fire every day. Otherwise Obama walks in.
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The claims concerning Obama and Ayers, much to the angst of the Dems, is anything BUT " debunked ".
The subject line is a lie. McCain in no way , what so ever, voted to PROTECT domestic terrorist.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The claims concerning Obama and Ayers, much to the angst of the Dems, is anything BUT " debunked ".
The subject line is a lie. McCain in no way , what so ever, voted to PROTECT domestic terrorist.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
Now we know what Obama did as a " Community Organizer".. He took the $ 50 million that Pentagon/Capitol-bomber Ayers got from Annenburg Foundation, and used it over 7 years to support radical experimentational educational programs, and radical dis-credited Acorn in inner Chicago. 7 years of meetings, lunches and all-around good fun....with an un-repentent terrorist. The NY Times barely touched the story, but now all the records have been released. Obama's political career in Chicage began in Ayers' house.
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It's nice sometimes not to be beholden to either side....
The first bit - that stuff is already criminal, don't need more laws, just to enforce properly the ones already present, the whole PC-Hate Crime stuff is ridiculous in light of the fact that an act of violence is criminal regardless of the motivation behind it.
And the idea of fines levied against someone in addition to criminal charges is an unconstitutional double whammy in itself, and triply so when the accused simply does not have the means to pay it - that's just like setting bail at 700% of someones yearly income, utterly ridiculous and unconstitutional on the face of it, though no one seems to care.
The bubble law on the other hand seems to be a worthwhile compromise between the right of free speech and the right of being left alone, and is thus the only issue I would hold against him, but I would like to hear his reasoning for opposing it before levelling judgement on him for it.
I might find McCain despicable, but I got better reasons for it - this is a bit out of sorts to be holding against him, but other than the mention I will leave be, since his people seem to be not recognising the right of free association with the whole Ayers crapola.
Still, voting in accordance with constitutional principles isn't never gonna piss me off, no matter which side of an issue I choose to take.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
.... since his people seem to be not recognising the right of free association with the whole Ayers crapola.
Still, voting in accordance with constitutional principles isn't never gonna piss me off, no matter which side of an issue I choose to take.
-Frem
We agree on the nonsensical, illegal " P.C. Hate Crimes " laws. However, no one said Obama couldn't freely associate himself w/ domestic terrorist, but just that ,if he choeses to do so, there'll be consequences to his politlcal career. As there are consequences w/ just about everything one does in their life. This is no different.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Well, viewed in that light sure - hell it's one of the reasons I tore into Romney, but he wasn't just associating with Sembler and Lichfield, he was takin money from em, which added a whole new aspect to that association.
As for Ayers, I am on the barely sympathetic side of neutral, rather than actually supportive, cause he and his made what I feel to be the most classic and endlessly foolish mistake of most historic Anarchists, Unionists and Reformists, and that is resorting to use of explosives.
Historically, they are NO damn good at it, more often than not blowing themselves up, causing far more casualties to their own than their intended targets while drawing down the ire and fury of the whole populace and needlessly endangering innocent bystanders in the process.
HE is not the proper weapon for the job, it never is, and never was - and while I never rule out the use of force in achieving a reformist aim, the disparity of force available to each side makes that a losing propositing to begin with, the best weapon is words and deeds, and through those, the support of other people - using explosives in furtherance of that ideal is as short sighted and foolish as using liquor store holdups to further a retirement plan.
Being an idiot with good intentions doesn't make one any less of an idiot, so it's not like I have any great degree of sympathy for Ayers personally given my feelings on the matter, although one has to respect the wisdom of discarding violence as a means while still seeking certain reforms - and ultimately, Ayers and the Weathermen were victorious in that they were a driving force towards both ending US involvement in Vietnam, and the eventual Church Committee Investigation and hand slapping of a more notorious branch of domestic terrorism, the FBI.
I would say it's actually a net benefit to have Ayers in play politically - to have someone who can truthfully say that blowing shit up doesn't work so hot in practice no matter how well it works in fiction, and can cite personal experience as a reference, and thus deter overeager amateurs from making the same dumbass mistakes.
So while I might not be heartily sympathetic, I've no issue with Ayers in the current state of affairs, just so that's all clear.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
So while I might not be heartily sympathetic, I've no issue with Ayers in the current state of affairs, just so that's all clear.
-Frem
Boy that's a big surprise coming from you. Ayres set off bombs at The Pentagon, The Capitol, and NYC Police Hdqtrs. I guess in your world he's admirable. In my world, because he got off on a legal technicality, we shun him, ridicule him, and spit on him every chance we get. Liberals give him money to continue his anti-American agenda. He's traded in his bombs for indoctrination of radicalism to Chicago's youth. Can't think of a sweller feller.
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Saint Rap, self-appointed martyr for the 'truth', and hypocrisy practitioner
"The claims concerning Obama and Ayers, much to the angst of the Dems, is (sic) anything BUT " debunked".
Except - they have been - with facts.
Simply working in the same organization - ALONG WITH DOZENS OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO ALSO WORKED THERE - doesn't mean anyone has 'close political ties'. Or any ongoing ties at all. Or that anyone shares an agenda from the 60's.
Now, I've posted a list of people who worked on the board directly with Obama. Are you claiming that those people ALSO have a radical agenda and have close political ties ? And if not, what makes them different from Obama ? Why does he get smeared and they don't ?
I've also posted facts refuting Obama's supposed connections with ACORN. As a lawyer, he represented them in a lawsuit which was ALSO joined by the US DOJ against the state of Illinois for equal voting access. Are you saying the US DOJ also helped ACORN bring down the entire US economy by joining the lawsuit ? And if not, why is Obama's connection to ACORN different from the US DOJ's.
Now this isn't the first time I've brought these facts up - it's the fourth. And you have YET to respond to them.
Up for a challenge ? Try addressing FACTS for a change.
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BTW: You can't handle the truth !
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If anyone wants to know which brand of Kool-Aid our own right-wing true believers like Saint Rap drink, here's one source:
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Dear Fellow American:
Never before in the history of our nation have we faced such a grave crisis: one of the most radical political figures ever to be nominated by a major party is just minutes away from becoming President of the United States.
That man is Barack Obama.
He promises to change America forever. If elected, he will do just that - but in ways
you may not like.
Remember Obama is the most liberal member of the United States Senate.
He received a 100 percent Liberal Rating from the National Journal, making him the most left-wing Senator in Washington - more liberal than even Democratic senators like Ted Kennedy.
If you look at Obama's record, you will understand just how dangerous this man is.
He even has terrorist friends he won't denounce. One such man is William Ayers, a leader in the radical terrorist group the Weatherman Underground. The group bombed several government buildings, including the Pentagon, killing civilians and police officers.
In 2001, Ayers said he had no regrets for his actions and wished he could have done more.
The ties between Obama and Ayers are tight. Both served on two non profit boards and they worked closely together. Ayers even hosted a political event at his home for Obama.
Obama has acknowledged he is a friend of Ayers and defends his association by saying he, Obama, was only 8 years old at the time of the Pentagon bombing.
However, Obama has no explanation as to why he is still a friend of Ayers.
Obama has even been endorsed by radicals such as Nation of Islam Leader Louis Farrakhan.
No one can deny hearing about Obama's relationship with the America-hating Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
There should be little doubt that William Ayers and Louis Farrakhan and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright are rooting for Obama - because he is one of them.
In keeping with such friends, Obama has promised to meet with radical leaders like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without "preconditions" even though Ahmadinejad has promised to "wipe Israel off the map" and "destroy" America .
Even radical Hamas terrorists have praised him.
"We like Mr. Obama and we hope he will win the election," Ahmed Yousef, senior Hamas leader was quoted by ABC radio as saying.
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Dangerous Economic Plan
And then there are Obama's dangerous economic plans for America.
He wants to almost double the capital gains tax. He wants to strip the FICA tax cap off every worker making more than $97,500. He wants to increase the dividend tax. He wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire - giving almost every American family an automatic tax increase.
He has called for more than $800 billion in new spending programs.
He is so radical he even backed driver's licenses for illegal aliens - even though such a move would help future terrorists move freely in the United States.
He is the most pro-abortion candidate in the history of the country. In 2001, as a state legislator in Illinois , he opposed a bill to protect live born children - children actually born alive! He was the only Illinois senator to speak out against the bill.
He opposes gun rights. He has long history of trying to deny ordinary citizens access to guns.
He originally backed Washington D.C. 's total ban on private handguns - a ban that was overturned. The NRA rated him an "F" on gun positions and says he is one of the most dangerous anti-gun politicians in the nation.
Never forget that Obama is a Harvard educated elitist. To him we Am
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http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/12/the-obama-ayers-top-ten-highli
ghts-of-the-20-year-obama-ayers-connection/
At the heart of this “Top Ten” list is the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Ayers founded and Obama and Ayers co-chaired for five years, raising and spending at least $110 million in an effort to bolster a “radical” (Ayers’ word) reform program in the Chicago Public Schools from 1994 to 2001.
1) Out of the Woods:
The Woods Fund financed the hiring of Obama in 1985 by the Developing Communities Project.
According to The Nation: “The Woods Fund, in many ways, is responsible for helping start Obama as an organizer and shaping his political identity. In 1985 the foundation gave a $25,000 grant to the Developing Communities Project (aka the “DCP”), which hired Obama, at 24, as an organizer on Chicago’s economically depressed South Side.”
The Woods Fund was founded by the Woods family which owned the Illinois-based Sahara Coal Company, a major supplier of coal from its mines to major Illinois power companies. Commonwealth Edison, the giant Chicago-based electric power company was headed by Thomas Ayers, father of Bill Ayers.
Obama served on the board of the Woods Fund from 1993 until 2002. Bill Ayers joined the board of the Fund in 1999 and continues to serve on the board today. He chaired the board for two years during that time.
2) Know your ABCs:
Obama’s DCP supported radical school reform project together with Bill Ayers.
In 1987 in the wake of a controversial strike by the Chicago Teachers’ Union, the Alliance for Better Chicago Schools, or ABCs, was formed to lobby for a new Illinois law that would mandate the establishment of a new power center in Chicago public schools. Local school councils would be established to watchdog union teachers and their principals and they would have the power to fire principals at will.
Bill Ayers helped organize the ABCs group, was its contact person and later its chair. Barack Obama worked on school reform efforts for the DCP at that time and the DCP was a member of the ABCs. Chicago United, a business group established by Tom Ayers, Bill’s father, was also a member of the ABCs.
The Woods Fund also provided additional financial support to the DCP in 1988 to support its school reform efforts. A program officer of the Woods Fund at the time was Ken Rolling who would later be hired by Bill Ayers and Barack Obama as Executive Director of the $110 million Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
3) Putting on the White Shoe:
Obama and Dohrn worked for elite law firm Sidley and Austin
After surfacing from the Weather Underground in 1980 Bernardine Dohrn, wife of Bill Ayers, pled guilty to criminal charges related to the violent Days of Rage in Chicago in 1969 and received three years probation. She later refused to testify in front of a grand jury convened to investigate a bank robbery carried out by former comrades of Dohrn’s from the Weather Underground. Currently a clinical faculty member at Northwestern University School of Law, she told the New York Times that she thought grand juries were “illegal” and “coercive.” She served seven months in jail.
Because of the criminal convictions Dohrn, who received a law degree from the University of Chicago in 1967, was refused admission to the New York bar. Nonetheless, she was hired as a legal clerk by Sidley and Austin, a major Chicago law firm, in their New York office in 1984. Howard Trienens, then managing partner of the firm, recently told the Chicago Tribune that he arranged the hiring of Dohrn as a favor to his fellow Northwestern University trustee and classmate, Tom Ayers. Tom Ayers’ firm, Commonwealth Edison, has used Sidley as outside counsel for many years. She later worked in their Chicago office when she and Bill Ayers moved back to Chicago in 1987. She left Sidley in 1988.
Barack Obama left Chicago in the fall of 1988 to attend Harvard Law School. In the summer after his first year at Harvard he became an associate in the Chicago office of Sidley and Austin.
4) A h
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Your problem, Saint Rap, self-appointed martyr for the 'truth', and hypocrisy practitioner, is that the timelines and associations don't make sense. They put cause after effect, assume that being in the same place at the same time along with many other people ('Dohrn classmate Judson Miner' -- and how COULD Miner have controlled who he was classmates with, I wonder ?) means individuals have a special association, and other significant fallacies.
But since Thomas Ayers (Bill Ayers' father) fits prominently into your scheme, I thought I'd post some information from his obituary, which shows him to be a radical lefty and person of ill repute (you betcha' 
):
Mr. Ayers headed Commonwealth Edison for seven years, ending in 1980.
Before assuming the top job, he helped negotiate the first labor contract between the energy giant and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.
He served on many boards, including that of G.D. Searle, Chicago Pacific Corp., Zenith Corp., Northwest Industries, First National Bank of Chicago and Tribune Co., owner of the Chicago Tribune, his family said.
He also worked with many nonprofits, serving as the chair of the Chicago Urban League, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, the Chicago Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Chicago United, Community Renewal Society and the Chicago Community Trust.
Respected by Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Mayor Richard J. Daley and the business community, he worked with all sides in an effort to curb housing discrimination, his family said.
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BTW: You can't handle the truth !
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Anybody on the right care to explain?
(Raises Hand) ME...ME!
Quote:
– McCain voted in 1993 and 1994 against making “bombings, arson and blockades at abortion clinics, and shootings and threats of violence against doctors and nurses who perform abortions” federal crimes.
It turns out that in most states...I wont speak for California, "bombings, arson, and blockades" are already illegal. So are shootings and threats of violence (against lots of folks...not just Doctors).
Quote:
– Opposing Colorado’s “Bubble Law.” McCain said he opposed Colorado’s “Bubble Law,” which prohibited abortion protesters from getting within 8 feet of women entering clinics [Denver Post, 2/27/00]. The law was later upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court.
McCain is a Senator for Arizona, not Colorado. He has no standing to argue any part of the law or its subsequent Supreme Court Challenge. Never the less, many people, regardless of the Life issue, argued that this was a violation of speech.
Quote:
– Voting to allow those fined for violence at clinics to avoid penalties by declaring bankruptcy. NARAL Pro-Chioce America notes that McCain “voted to allow perpetrators of violence or harassment at reproductive-health clinics to avoid paying the fines assessed against them for their illegal acts by declaring bankruptcy.”
They are referring to an amendment by Senator Schumer to single out pro-life protestors for additional punishment. There was no need for such an amendment since there were NO bankruptcy protections available for fines, court costs, and legal judgments.
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2005/mar/08/20050308-111618-7492r/
H
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Yanno, everybody keeps parroting the words "radical reform" and the title ACORN as if they were boogeymen without actuallly looking AT THE REFORM and THE ORGANIZATION.
I haven't had much time to look it up, but what little I did makes me think that this boogeyman "radical reform" was nothing other than trying to wrest power from the Chicago Board of Education and place it into the hands of local groups. Like I said b4, in conservative parlance that's called LOCAL CONTROL.
AFA ACRON is concerned, I've heard of them from time to time in various news articles. Quite frankly, fighting against slumlords sounds like a GOOD thing to me. And since it's neighborhood-based, it again goes back to LOCAL CONTROL.
The next time someone raises these two boogyemen, will you please be SPECIFIC what they have done that's so terrifying???
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Let's party like its 1929.
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People think that if they throw the word 'radical around it means violent. How does it translate ?
How about this:
a RADICAL innovation in car design ... a VIOLENT innovation in car design
a RADICAL problem ... a VIOLENT problem
Not very well. RADICAL almost always means either very different from before or what's current. In original context it means a very different approach.
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Silence is consent.
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Jong, you might wish to consider the fact that history has prettymuch vindicated the guy, not only regarding vietnam, but also regarding how our intelligence folk at the time were worse terrorists than the weathermen - go read the church committee report, and realize that you're looking at outright admissions of bombings, murder, sabotage and other forms of terrorism against the american people.
Compared to the FBI, Ayers was a fuckin lightweight.
And it don't make it right no matter WHO does it, so as you spit on and shun Ayers, make damned sure to spit on and shun Rumsfeld, Marsh, Kissinger, and the ghosts of Bill Colby and Nixon besides.
You've every right to curse Ayers for his shortsighted stupidity, but if you're going to take issue with some left-wing radical doing these things....
Why don't you have an issue with the sumbitches who make doing those and worse, official policy ?
Why do they get a free pass ?
I say we hold em ALL accountable, whether it's done in furtherance of a radical agenda, or as an act of official policy, it's still wrong all the same.
What say you ?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:You're of course right that this might be the case (and probably is), but I'd like to know what those provisions were.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Not necessary to be on the Right to see how this might happen. Could be that these provisions were added to other legislation Sen. McCain opposed. Without knowing the particular bills (which weren't cited) it's hard to know exactly what portions of them Sen. McCain was actually against.
Recall that both Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama voted against bills funding the troops in Iraq. McCain voted against a bill with withdrawal timetables, and Obama against a bill without them. Thus, both voted against funding our troops.
If it's alright for the McCain campaign to accuse Obama of "voting against our troops" without referring to the provision in the legislation that made him vote against that bill, why should the left not use what I've cited here and say McCain voted to protect domestic terrorists? Because on the face of it, that's what he did.
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Quote:
...using explosives in furtherance of that ideal is as short sighted and foolish as using liquor store holdups to further a retirement plan.
Well, shit. There go my weekend plans...
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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