It passed the Senate, d*mnit!

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Friday, October 3, 2008 16:08
VIEWED: 1227
PAGE 1 of 1

SIGNYM

Thursday, October 2, 2008 3:16 PM

And everyone who voted for it is an friggin' idiot! That includes Obama and McCain.

My favorite economist, Nouriel Rabini, the guy who's been predicting this meltdown for a year, the guy who is basically saying that the international banking system is ALREADY broken, the guy who is more of an alarmist than most others...

... calls the Federal purchase of toxic assets A Disgrace and Rip-Off Benefitting only the Shareholders and Unsecured Creditors of Banks More specifically, he cites

Quote:
A recent IMF study of 42 systemic banking crises across the world

We are not the first and only

Quote:
provides evidence on how different crises were resolved. First of all only in 32 of the 42 cases there was government financial intervention of any sort; in 10 cases systemic banking crises were resolved without any government financial intervention. Of the 32 cases where the government recapitalized the banking system only seven included a program of purchase of bad assets/loans (like the one proposed by the US Treasury). In 25 other cases there was no government purchase of such toxic assets. In 6 cases the government purchased preferred shares; in 4 cases the government purchased common shares; in 11 cases the government purchased subordinated debt; in 12 cases the government injected cash in the banks; in 2 cases credit was extended to the banks; and in 3 cases the government assumed bank liabilities. Even in cases where bad assets were purchased – as in Chile – dividends were suspended and all profits and recoveries had to be used to repurchase the bad assets. Of course in most cases multiple forms of government recapitalization of banks were used.

But government purchase of bad assets was the exception rather than the rule. It was used only in Mexico, Japan, Bolivia, Czech Republic, Jamaica, Malaysia, and Paraguay. Even in six of these seven cases where the recapitalization of banks occurred via the government purchase of bad assets such recapitalization was a combination of purchase of bad assets together with other forms of recapitalization (such as government purchase of preferred shares or subordinated debt).

In the Scandinavian banking crises (Sweden, Norway, Finland) that are a model of how a banking crisis should be resolved there was not government purchase of bad assets; most of the recapitalization occurred through various injections of public capital in the banking system. Purchase of toxic assets instead – in most cases in which it was used – made the fiscal cost of the crisis much higher and expensive (as in Japan and Mexico). Thus the claim by the Fed and Treasury that spending $700 billion of public money is the best way to recapitalize banks has absolutely no factual basis or justification.

Link split to prevent blowing the screen
www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/253783/is_purchasing_700_billion_of_to
xic_assets_the_best_way_to_recapitalize_the_financial_system_no_it_is_rather_
a_disgrace_and_rip-off_benefitting_only_the_shareholders_and_unsecured_creditors_of_banks

I'm not in denial. I know we're facing a crisis, but our politicians are panicking and doing the wrong thing.

I have absolutely NO problem calling and emailing my Representative (as I did my Senators) and telling her NO PURCHASE OF TOXIC ASSETS!!!!

I urge you to do the same.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, October 2, 2008 3:29 PM

All it takes is one amendment to the House version and the Senate vote is void. Or the House could vote NO.

I voted NO yesterday, and I'll vote NO again today.
www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt

Quote:
1. Vote NO to this $100-Trillion bank robbery, that gives the bank robbers criminal immunity, zero bookkeeping, zero Congressional oversight, zero judicial jurisdiction

2. Immediately impeach George W Bush, Richard B Cheney, Henry Paulson and Benjamin Bernanke for their millions of murders, treasons and other felonies

3. Immediately file criminal complaints in federal court against George W Bush, Richard B Cheney, Henry Paulson, Benjamin Bernanke and Sir Alan Greenspan Knight of the British Empire for their millions of murders, treasons and other felonies

4. Immediately nationalize the private Federal Reserve Bank that keeps all income taxes as interest on the federal debt, by repealing the Federal Reserve Act that was never properly voted on during midnight session of Xmas holiday by two Congressmen in 1913, per Ron Paul's Federal Reserve Abolition Act - HR 2755
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.2755:

6. Immediately eliminate the IRS and income tax, and "repeal" the 16th Amendment that was never ratified by the States

7. Immediately end all wars and bring all troops home to USA

8. Immediately arrest and deport all 50-million illegal aliens, and arrest their employers and seize their assets

9. Re-criminalize all derivatives, which were criminal acts before Reagan/BushSr legalized that Ponzi scheme in the 1980s

Note that killing the IRS and income tax kills the tax grants that currently pay US corporations to export their factories to foreign enemies.

Illegal aliens rape/kill girl, ICE says OK
Used their hotel master key to enter her room at 2am
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=35096

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, October 2, 2008 5:28 PM

Say no, and KEEP saying no, keep yer boot in their ass and if they don't comply send em packing at the polls.

The mere fact that they keep trying to push this through over and against the will of the people shows just what kinda slime they are - and that they need to be out of a job, although since they keep those fucking campaign finance chests when they retire, they won't be standin in the unemployment line like they should be.

-F

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, October 2, 2008 5:49 PM

Fred,

Havnt you been elected yet?

When you do, GO GET THEM.

SIGNYM

Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:50 PM

Those voting "NO". Good on them!!!

Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Roberts (R-KS)
Sanders (I-VT)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Tester (D-MT)
Vitter (R-LA)
Wicker (R-MS)
Wyden (D-OR

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:52 PM

November, Wulf... and it's alas the next best thing to a foregone conclusion, although my ability to "get them" only applies very locally in scale and jurisdiction when it's a mere city council yer talkin about.

Kinda funny though, several members thereof have already made initial downpayments on new residences quite far from here...

Gee, I wonder why.

They're also quite terrible at subterfuge and chicanery, like when they do things in such a fashion it's easy to legally obtain evidence of it and trumpet it to the skies without ever even bending a single rule or law...

And the first rule of politics is that you always, ALWAYS put the boot in on an opponent that goes down.

Penned a nice little limerick for the local paper this afternoon called "The Cut N Run Council".

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:55 PM

WOOHOO!

SIGNYM

Thursday, October 2, 2008 10:16 PM

Say NO and KEEP saying NO!

Call, call, call.

If you can't reach Washington, call your local office.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

KWICKO

Thursday, October 2, 2008 11:24 PM

As if it weren't already bad enough, the Senate, in their verve to do "the right thing" for the country in a time of economic crisis, still managed to pad the bill they passed with ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY BILLION DOLLARS OF PORK!!!

Okay, that's seriously some BS. Even if you're in favor of a bailout (I'm not), $192 million in extra protection for Puerto Rican rum producers seems a bit ridiculous.

But it's just another day at work for the government...

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

OUT2THEBLACK

Friday, October 3, 2008 3:23 AM

I don't have a cite at the moment , but I saw an article or story that said the FED and Treasury had already spent 600 Billion as they've seen fit ,
while this 'Bailout' scheme has been being floated...

I did a google search for 'bailout alternatives' , because I've seen proposals here and there , but I've not had any time to study what's out there...

Anyone want to bring some ideas forward ?

OUT2THEBLACK

Friday, October 3, 2008 3:31 AM

Meanwhile , there was this on PBS tonight :

KANGAS: Business Week magazine once called you the king of Wall Street. So drawing on that kind of vast experience, do you think that the stock market declines are being overdone here?

GUTFREUND: No, I think the circumstances are unique. In 55 years in the Street, the only thing that ever struck me as strongly as this was the bombing September 11th in '01.

KANGAS: Mm-hmm. So now if the rescue bill-passes, will that bailout get money flowing on Wall Street again in your opinion?

GUTFREUND: I don't think money on Wall Street is necessarily the issue. I think that the public confidence has been sorely shaken and the procedures in Washington where they confuse the issues by adding all sorts of goodies on a bill, on a most serious matter, just is so offensive. Anybody that can read and write has got to be sore as hell at their congressman and Senators who are anxious to get back to their political hustings.

KANGAS: Do you think they are sore enough so that this plan will not make it through the House like it did the Senate?

GUTFREUND: I think that the -- these monkeys are under enough pressure and they have probably got enough goodies, pork barreling stuff, that they will get it through, whether it makes sense or not is something else.

KANGAS: So they will pass it, do you think?

GUTFREUND: Yes, but I thought they were going to pass it the other day.

KANGAS: OK. Well, if it passes, what will it do for investor and consumer confidence, won't that be a bit of a boost, at least near term?

GUTFREUND: Well, it should be. But when are you are going downhill on a slide, it will take more than one or two things. I think that the thing that they added the other day about increasing the limit of insured deposits from $100,000 to $250,000, things like that are much more important and really bear consideration. Who are they kidding with this nonsense, bailing out Wall Street? The public is concerned. You have got a huge population, it isn't just Wall Street.

KANGAS: Mm-hmm.

GUTFREUND: I am of the school who thinks it will take a lot of work. I think people will be more interested in watching that lady and that senator debate tonight.

KANGAS: OK. What are you telling your clients to do, if anything, here?

GUTFREUND: Stay liquid. Stay close to shore. I don't think that we have seen an absolute market bottom. The credit problems are very severe. And the one thing that we've never had before is, because of the technology and the age in which we live, it's a global problem. It isn't just a U.S. problem. And you can't detach us from the rest of the world. The banks in Europe, in Asia, they will all suffer, those who have been as imprudent as ours.

KANGAS: Mm-hmm. Now you have been through these types of crises before at Salomon. What are the lessons from today's credit crunch?

GUTFREUND: The lesson is you ought to treat your depositors, your shareholders, as if they were yourself. In other words, act as if it is your own money. Don't do things you don't understand. Don't take crazy, imprudent risks and because other people seem to be getting rich doing it. Don't get carried away. If you were that smart, would you have been rich already.

KANGAS: Very good points that you make. John, I want to thank you for sharing your candid insights with our viewers.

GUTFREUND: My pleasure. Glad to do it. I wish all of them well and I wish I felt more enthusiastic or euphoric. But I think you really have to pay attention to this and say, it's my money, and I want to be careful. I may have made some foolish mistakes up to date, but in here I want to keep my liquidity.

KANGAS: John, thanks very much. John Gutfreund of Gutfreund & Company.

http://www.pbs.org/nbr/site/onair/transcripts/081002b

PIRATENEWS

Friday, October 3, 2008 4:02 AM

I was against the BAILout until the Senate added tax breaks for racers.

Quote:
The Taxpayers for Common Sense also reports that the proposal includes such mouthwatering morsels as these:

Creation of a seven-year cost recovery period for construction of a motorsports racetrack: Track owners currently follow a seven-year depreciation schedule and write each year's depreciation off their taxes. The IRS wanted to increase the depreciation timetable to 15 years, which would mean the track owner's depreciation would be cut in half. The measure in the keeps the seven-year depreciation schedule for two years and would cost taxpayers $100 million.

www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/bailout.pork/index.html

And archers, and rumrunners.

Quote:
For example, the proposal includes an excise tax exemption for a very specific type of arrow used by child archers.

"This proposal would exempt from the excise tax any shaft consisting of all natural wood with no laminations or artificial means to enhance the spine of the shaft used in the manufacture of an arrow that measures 5/16 of an inch or less and is unsuited for use with a bow with a peak draw weight of 30 pounds or more," Ellis wrote.

Oregon Sens. Ron Wyden, a Democrat, and Gordon Smith, a Republican, were the initial sponsors of the arrow provision. According to Bloomberg News, the earmark provision would be worth $200,000 a year to Rose City Archery in Myrtle Point, Oregon.

Why were TV producers not already doing this under current tax law that allows tax deductions for all business expenses?

Quote:
Provisions related to film and television productions: In order to keep movie production in the U.S., production companies would be allowed to deduct the cost of producing the films from their taxes. Rep. Diane Watson, D-California, has been one of the program's biggest supporters. The measure would cost taxpayers $478 million over 10 years.

Good to know that not all TV shows are already exported to foreign nations.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, October 3, 2008 3:22 PM

"House plans second vote on bailout."

You know, this bothers me, but in order to comprehend why, you'll have to think it through a little...

Ok, they voted, their constituents got all up in the ass and screamed NO! so loud it bounced off the fuckin moon for crying out loud.

And so, it got voted down.

And then what ? they just keep fucking voting it till they get the desired result ?

Then what's the point of HAVING a vote in the first goddamn place ?!

I don't know about you, but it's been made clear to my reps, if they try this particular game one more time, we WILL initiate recall proceedings against them, and since it's "OK" to do so by their own actions, will continue to resubmit them once a week till we get the result WE want, since the rules seem to have changed to allow that.

Tar and Feathers, Torches and Pitchforks, folks, cause it's long past time the noble lords got a taste of peasant revolt around here.

-Frem
PS. Don't humiliate yourselves by shovelling "but this is a different bill", it ain't, it's the same bill in different words with more bullshit, doubletalk and pork stacked on, and that's ALL it is.

SIGNYM

Friday, October 3, 2008 4:02 PM

AMEN Frem!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

RUE

Friday, October 3, 2008 4:08 PM

out2

alternatives here

Is Purchasing $700 billion of Toxic Assets the Best Way to Recapitalize the Financial System?

No! It is Rather a Disgrace and Rip-Off Benefitting only the Shareholders and Unsecured Creditors of Banks

Nouriel Roubini | Sep 28, 2008

Whenever there is a systemic banking crisis there is a need to recapitalize the banking/financial system to avoid an excessive and destructive credit contraction. But purchasing toxic/illiquid assets of the financial system is not the most effective and efficient way to recapitalize the banking system. Such recapitalization – via the use of public resources – can occur in a number of alternative ways: purchase of bad assets/loans; government injection of preferred shares; government injection of common shares; government purchase of subordinated debt; government issuance of government bonds to be placed on the banks’ balance sheet; government injection of cash; government credit lines extended to the banks; government assumption of government liabilities.

A recent IMF study of 42 systemic banking crises across the world provides evidence on how different crises were resolved. First of all only in 32 of the 42 cases there was government financial intervention of any sort; in 10 cases systemic banking crises were resolved without any government financial intervention. Of the 32 cases where the government recapitalized the banking system only seven included a program of purchase of bad assets/loans (like the one proposed by the US Treasury). In 25 other cases there was no government purchase of such toxic assets. In 6 cases the government purchased preferred shares; in 4 cases the government purchased common shares; in 11 cases the government purchased subordinated debt; in 12 cases the government injected cash in the banks; in 2 cases credit was extended to the banks; and in 3 cases the government assumed bank liabilities. Even in cases where bad assets were purchased – as in Chile – dividends were suspended and all profits and recoveries had to be used to repurchase the bad assets. Of course in most cases multiple forms of government recapitalization of banks were used.

But government purchase of bad assets was the exception rather than the rule. It was used only in Mexico, Japan, Bolivia, Czech Republic, Jamaica, Malaysia, and Paraguay. Even in six of these seven cases where the recapitalization of banks occurred via the government purchase of bad assets such recapitalization was a combination of purchase of bad assets together with other forms of recapitalization (such as government purchase of preferred shares or subordinated debt).

In the Scandinavian banking crises (Sweden, Norway, Finland) that are a model of how a banking crisis should be resolved there was not government purchase of bad assets; most of the recapitalization occurred through various injections of public capital in the banking system. Purchase of toxic assets instead – in most cases in which it was used – made the fiscal cost of the crisis much higher and expensive (as in Japan and Mexico).

Thus the claim by the Fed and Treasury that spending $700 billion of public money is the best way to recapitalize banks has absolutely no factual basis or justification. This way of recapitalizing financial institutions is a total rip-off that will mostly benefit – at a huge expense for the US taxpayer - the common and preferred shareholders and even unsecured creditors of the banks. Even the late addition of some warrants that the government will get in exchange of this massive injection of public money is only a cosmetic fig leaf of dubious value as the form and size of such warrants is totally vague and fuzzy.

So this rescue plan is a huge and massive bailout of the shareholders and the unsecured creditors of the financial firms (not just banks but also other non bank financial institutions); with $700 billion of taxpayer money the pockets of reckless bankers and investors have been made fatter under the fake argument that bailing out Wall Street was necessary to rescue Main