The Party's Over
POSTED BY: Riverlove
UPDATED: Monday, September 8, 2008 15:00
VIEWED: 10207
PAGE 1 of 1
The party's over indeed, for the Democrats that is. Thanks to their rabid legions of defenders of liberalism pre-speech vitriolic attacks against Sarah Palin and her family, they have doomed themselves into extinction. They have set the stage, and they have ignited and elevated Sarah to instantly become an ideological icon. An icon that represents almost everything that the Left despises, but rings oh so true to so many millions of people. How dare they criticize her love of family, her ability to govern while still loving and caring for her family. Did they ever ask a man that? They prefer the Clinton style of family obviously, separate parents with a single child. How downright stupid or desperate or both are they to go after an 80% approval rating Governor, a woman with a track record of successfully defeating all her opponents? Are they totally nuts? With respects to Helen Reddy, Palin is woman, hear her roar. Oh, the hardcore Left will hold on for a while, but where are the "feminists"; oh that's right , you can be a family woman with a career, just as long as you subscribe to the social and political positions that NOW, Oprah, NARAL, Planned Parenthoood, et al fully support, which is Obama. And they indeed have a right to support positions and candidates. But don't try to con anyone that you are independent and care about women, all women. That game ends with Sarah Palin. She will be everywhere, all the time now thanks to the tidal wave of both love and admiration for this great woman, and the extreme backlash against the political, media, and celebrity attackers. She's going to be a great campaigner, and will attract millions of new and independent voters to her causes. Her one debate with Biden will be maybe bigger than the 2 Presidential debates. An event of historic importance. The clashing of two worlds in many ways. I wonder what the Jihadist terrorists think of her. And something tells me that the Europeans and world leaders are going to love her too. Oprah's passing on Sarah, so will Ellen have her on? She danced so cutely with Barack, will she dance with Sarah?
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More on Oprah at www.drudgereport.com/flash3os.htm
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Sarah Palin really needs nothing from Oprah. Oprah cried when Obama was on stage in Denver, she cried. That is powerful. But what was she really crying about? The obvious answer is that she's extremely proud of Barack, and recognizes the immense social and historical importance his nomination represents. I respect that, and I admire that. She's made a deep personal commitment for Obama. It would be awkward for Palin to appear on her show, so I agree with her current decision. What other things about the man made her cry? His political and social views, his eloquence? Lot's of things. That's how I and everyone I know and talk to feel about Sarah Palin.
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Indeed, the Repubs can start popping their bubbly. What a victory for the red side this could be - they just might get four more years of doing the usual! Cheney must be glowing at the similarities of his potential replacement, like a little mini-Dick with lipstick and a beehive. Secretive, manipulative, intolerant, power hungry, anti-feminist, pro-business, vindictive, divisive... Oh yes, Cheney must be wearing a party hat and gigging with glee!
And the rest of us? If the reds have their way, we'll have 4 more years of the same hypocritical abuse of power and destruction of American freedoms that we're oh so used to by now. No, there's party there Riverlove. 
For example:
In July, when legislators started talking about conducting an investigation, Palin denied any wrongdoing and said she welcomed an investigation.
"Hold me accountable," she said.
The Legislature took her up on that offer. But this week, she basically told the Legislature, "Never mind."
Palin's lawyer has asked the Legislature to drop its investigation. He had the governor file an ethics complaint against herself, in a bid to turn the entire matter over to the state Personnel Board, which would hire an independent investigator.
This is not an open and transparent attempt to establish Gov. Palin's accountability. It is an attempt to drag out the investigation until after voters decide the fate of her vice-presidential bid.
Instead, Gov. Palin should honor her pledge to cooperate with the Legislature's investigation, conducted by former state prosecutor Steve Branchflower.
She could start by telling aide Frank Bailey he has to talk to the legislative investigator. She should fire him if he doesn't.
Bailey was caught on an audio recording of a phone conversation with a Public Safety Department official, in which Bailey pushed to get Wooten fired.
Bailey was put on paid leave, not fired. A spokeswoman for Palin said that while Bailey is on the state payroll, Palin can direct him to cooperate with the legislative investigation.
So why is Bailey still on the payroll, after he bailed on a scheduled interview with the legislative investigator Wednesday?
http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/516641.html
And said a resident of Wasilla who's known Palin for 16 years:
During her mayoral administration, most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings, which had given rise to a recall campaign.
Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative." During her six years as mayor, she increased general government expenditures by more than 33 percent. During those same six years, the amount of taxes collected by the city increased by 38 percent. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax, which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefitted large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.
The huge increases in tax revenue during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list, though — borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt but left it with indebtedness of more than $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? Or a new library? No. $1 million for a park. $15 million-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex, which she rushed through, on a piece of property that the city didn't even have clear title to. That was still in litigation seven years later — to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5 million for road projects that could have been done in fi
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The TRUTH about Sarah Palin is that she's one of the most beloved Governors in the nation, with a very high approval rating.
Your distortions and lies about her MAYORIAL days are going to back fire. Hell, the mere fact she took on the establishment, the good ole boy network in her OWN PARTY, as well as the Democrats, AND WON , shows just how late to the table you are w/ the petty, jealous smear campaign. 
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Bon jovi threw a $31,000 per person B.O. party at his N.J. home, notice no one bitches about "Big entertainment" money.
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Don't Ask Don't Tell: Log Cabin Jew Lindsey Graham USAF JAG at RNC Non-Con 2008
www.gopconvention2008.com/videos/
Quote:
Transcript: Sen. Lindsey Graham Speech to Republican National Convention 2008
Let there be no — let there be no doubt about it. We are on the road to victory.
Victory! You can say it at this convention. We are winning!
And you know what? America is safer because we’re winning in Iraq.
www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/09/04/transcript-sen-lindsey-graham-speec
h-to-republican-national-convention-2008/
"Sen. Lindsey Graham booed at S.C. Republican Convention over "emotional topic" of immigration. The crowd booed South Carolina U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, a key ally of McCain in both his 2000 and 2008 presidential bids, when he said he had worked with U.S. Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., on the immigration legislation."
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1836747/posts
"The administration effectively neutralized the McCain ban with Senator Lindsey Graham's amendment stipulating that Guantanamo Bay detainees cannot invoke U.S. law to challenge their imprisonment. Congress thus bartered away this nation's constitutional birthright of habeas corpus, a foundational legal protection born, ironically, of the British Parliament's long struggle to ban royal torture writs by the infamous Court of Star Chamber."
www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2006/05/invisible_in_pl.html
"Is Lindsey Graham gay? Seven Minutes in Gay Hell: Is Lindsey Graham in S.C.'s airtight closet? When GQ asked last year, Graham wasn't mean, just dismissive. He said he's not gay, just a loner."
www.charlestoncitypaper.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A32974
"IS LINDSEY GRAHAM A HOMO? DOES THE POPE GO POO-POO IN THE WOODS? One thing is clear, Brig. General Janis Karpinski appears a lot more butch than Lindsey. And today's Wall Street Journal has an hysterical example. Following a screening of Ghosts of Abu Ghraib in Washington on Monday. Pompous little Lindsey got a bit carried away with his usually cautious self and blurted out that Karpinski, then military police commander in Baghdad, got off easy with a demotion to colonel. She should have faced a court-martial, he declared. He was unaware that Karpinski, who had been in the film, was also in the theater. Oh, girl! The moderator invited her to reply. She didn't challenge Lindsey to a duel. But she had a declaration as well. "Sen. Graham… I consider you as cowardly as Rumsfeld, as Sanchez, and Miller and all of them," said Karpinski, a South Carolina resident who had demanded-- and was denied-- a court martial to clear her name, who has long claimed to be a scapegoat for superiors including former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez and Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller."
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-lindsey-graham-homo-doe
s-pope-go.html
Republicans Make Lindsey Graham’s Sexuality an Issue
http://gaycharleston.ccpblogs.com/2008/05/27/republicans-make-lindsey-
grahams-sexuality-an-issue/
Equal Time
Quote:
Surge 'Suceeded Beyond Our Wildest Dreams,' Obama Now Says
September 05, 2008
The troop surge in Iraq has “succeeded beyond our wildest dreams,” Sen. Barack Obama conceded in an interview with Bill O'Reilly that aired on the Fox News Channel Thursday night.
On Thursday, O’Reilly urged Obama to admit he was wrong about the surge.
“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated -- by the way, including President Bush and the other supporters. It has gone very well,” Obama conceded.
In his interview with “The O’Reilly Factor,” Obama listed America’s enemies in the war on terror as Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and a “whole host of networks that are bent on attacking America who have a distorted ideology, who have perverted the faith of Islam -- and so we have to go after them,” he said.
www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.asNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The TRUTH about Sarah "Playuh" Painin continues to be obscured - by herself and McLame's staff more than anyone else:
In an August 14 interview with Time, Palin described herself as Christian and only when pressed did she state that she attends a non-denominational community church. No mention is made of her conversion in the Wasilla Assemblies of God church as a teen and her long stay there until 2002.
...maybe Palin is trying to avoid the "Jeremiah Wright" treatment being given to the Reverend Ed Kalnins, pastor of the Wasilla AG church. USA TODAY cites a Huffington Post source: "Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted into heaven; and preached that the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Iraq were part of a world war over Christianity.
http://www.chron.com/channel/houstonbelief/commons/persona.html?newspa
perUserId=kengurley&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3AkengurleyPost%3A12162c31-9c19-4cde-950e-7ad2feac5379
If you don't like the hearsay element of all that, get it straight from the pit-bull's mouth: http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3845739
Yay! Four more years of destroying the separation of church and state! Four more years of watching America, land of the free, turn into a fundamentalist state to rival the Repubs image of kill-for-Allah Islam! How about a kill-for-Jesus party folks? 
And here we have McLame again trying to manipulate the press, crying foul and staying home to pout because a reporter called out McSame's campaign spokesman:
BROWN: If I can interrupt for one second because I've heard you guys say this a lot. Can you tell me one decision that she made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, just one?
BOUNDS: Yeah. She's made -- any decision she has made as the commander of the National Guard that's deployed overseas is more of a decision Barack Obama's been making as he's been running for the president for the last two years.
BROWN: So tell me. Tell me. Give me an example of one of those decisions. I'm curious, just one decision she made in her capacity as commander in chief of the National Guard.
BOUNDS: Campbell, certainly you don't mean to belittle, every experience, every judgment she makes as commander --
BROWN: I'm belittling nothing. I want to know one judgment or one decision. I want to know what one decision was. I'm not belittling anything, I am curious.
BOUNDS: As she makes a decision how to equip or how to command the national guard in Alaska, that is more --
BROWN: But Tucker, those are the Pentagon's decision, that's Gen. Petraeus, that's the White House.
BOUNDS: Pardon me?
BROWN: No governor makes decisions how to equip or deploy the National Guard. When they go to Iraq, those are decisions made by the Pentagon.
BOUNDS: Campbell, on factual basis, they certainly do. In Alaska, if I have an emergency in your state, the National Guard is under the command of the governor. That is more of a command role than Barack Obama has ever had. I would argue John McCain and Gov. Palin between the two of them have far more command experience in military than either of the candidates on the Democratic side.
I do want to argue this is about the top of the ticket. Ultimately when people go into the ballot box and decide between Barack Obama and John McCain, they will decide between John McCain's record of reforming Washington and Barack Obama's rhetoric on the campaign trail, doesn't have a lot of experience, certainly has no command or military experience, which both our candidates have. That's an important distinction I think voters will make the right call in November.
BROWN: All right. Tucker, I'm just going to give it to you, baby. We'll end it there.
BOUNDS: Appreciate it.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/05/brown.bounds/index.html?iref=ne
wssearch
Yes another example of the Repub way: thr
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AIP member Gov Palin at Alaska Independence Party (Seccession from USA)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7425256239173149474&vt=lf&hl=e
n
Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
The TRUTH about Sarah "Playuh" Painin continues to be obscured - by herself and McLame's staff more than anyone else:
...maybe Palin is trying to avoid the "Jeremiah Wright" treatment being given to the Reverend Ed Kalnins, pastor of the Wasilla AG church. USA TODAY cites a Huffington Post source: "Kalnins has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted into heaven; and preached that the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Iraq were part of a world war over Christianity.
Yeah, Bohemian Grove is where Christians go to worship. So Palin really has joined the pod people.
Quote:
Boners at Bohemian Grove
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2740234893142263113
http://garageband.com/artist/countercoup
Snuff Kiddie Porn at Bohemian Grove
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6497462494231069386
http://one.revver.com/watch/248515
Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove and The Order of Death
http://www.archive.org/details/DSIBG
http://www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html
Moloch.
an ancient Phoenician and Ammonite god, to whom children were sacrificed by burning.
-Webster's New World Dictionary
"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people."
-Leviticus 20:1-5, Christian Bible KJV
"And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon."
-1 Kings 11:6-7, Christian Bible KJV
"But it's not just the ratty part of town. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time - it is the most faggy goddamn thing that you would ever imagine with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco."
-President Richard "Dick" Nixon, White House audiotape, Nixon Presidential Library, 1971
http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html (audio download)
"I'm not going to end up tied down to a Pentagram with Henry Kissenger standing over me naked with his fat belly hanging out, holding a dagger in his hand, am I?"
—Alex Jones, from Jones' undercover video Dark Secrets, as Jon Ronson was briefing Jones on how to infiltrate the Grove for British Channel 4 TV
“I’ve been up to Bohemian Grove. It was a bizarre experience to pee on a tree with Henry Kissinger and slam drinks with William F. Buckley.”
-Actor George Wendt (Teddy Bears Picnic mockumentary about Bohemian Grove)
"THE HANGMAN EQUALS DEATH!
THE DEVIL EQUALS DEATH!
DEATH EQUALS DEATH!"
-Initiation ritual human sacrifice at Yale University's Skull & Bones Senior Secret Society, New Haven, Connecticut (Ron Rosenbaum, New York Observer, "At Skull and Bones, Bush's Secret Club Initiates Ream Gore," 4/2/01)
www.prisonplanet.com/initiates_ream_gore.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The TRUTH about Sarah Palin is that she's one of the most beloved Governors in the nation, with a very high approval rating.
Your distortions and lies about her MAYORIAL days are going to back fire. Hell, the mere fact she took on the establishment, the good ole boy network in her OWN PARTY, as well as the Democrats, AND WON , shows just how late to the table you are w/ the petty, jealous smear campaign.
You are 100% dead on. Their lies and distortions are only FUELING the Palin revolution, adding log upon log to the fire. Can you possibly imagine what Hollywood and media liberals are going through now? I almost feel sorry for them, and I do pity them. They've UNLEASHED THE KRAKEN~! Wait until Monday when the full Rassmusson & Gallop Poll numbers come out with complete post-convention samplings. I'm anticipating that McCain will be ahead, and I expect his numbers to only improve dramatically until Election Day with Palin leading the way for him.
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Riverlove, if I can interrupt for one second because I've heard you guys say this a lot. Can you tell me one decision that Palin made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, just one?
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Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Riverlove, if I can interrupt for one second because I've heard you guys say this a lot. Can you tell me one decision that Palin made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard, just one?
Glad to Swish. As Governor, she just recently signed executive orders deploying part of Alaska's National Guard to go to Lousiana to provide Hurricane relief assistance. I guess you didn't ever hear that story from your news sources. The Commander of the Alaska National Guard, a 25+ year veteran says that Palin is the best he's ever seen in his life. A super-quick study of any situation, she is fully supported by her troops and other state's as well. Louisiana's Republican Governor Bobby Jindal asked Palin for assistance and she responded with action. She didn't say "present."
She also has daily briefings on National Guard matters, and she oversees the budget, civilian employment, and operations for her troops. The National Guard operates independently of the Federal Govt. She is an EXECUTIVE, something Obama & Biden have never been. And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
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Quote:Hmm. Too bad Tucker Bounds couldn't think of that answer LOL!
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Glad to Swish. She just recently signed orders deploying part of Alaska's National Guard to go to Lousiana to provide Hurricane relief assistance.
I should have worded better though - the discussion in the interview I posted (did you read my post, btw?) was about foreign policy experience. Sending aid to domestic hurricane victims has NOTHING to do with foreign policy experience. Any tool can order aid to folks who obviously need it! (Well, except for the idiots in charge during Katrina...)
Quote:So you've asked them all? Each one? And do you have a source to reference?
The Commander of the Alaska National Guard, a 25+ year veteran says that Palin is the best he's ever seen in his life. A super-quick study of any situation, she is fully supported by her troops and other state's as well.
Quote:Way to quote the party line, and rely on a fairly lame endorsement of a fellow Repub. Not very convincing. The only reason it's commentable that someone replied to a call for aid is that they so blatantly DIDN'T during Katrina.
Louisiana's Republican Governor Bobby Jindal asked Palin for assistance and she responded with action. She didn't say "present."
BTW, any response to the material in any of my previous posts? Material that was backed up with references, I might add.
Did you even read those articles, or just close eyes, plug ears, and continue chanting the party mantra?NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I was praying last night & God told me to vote for Ms. Palin; that's good enough for me.Chrisisall
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Oops - you added this after I replied...
Quote:Are you high? Obviously you're smoking something, or just not real edumacated...
Originally posted by Riverlove:
She also has daily briefings on National Guard matters, and she oversees the budget, civilian employment, and operations for her troops. The National Guard operates independently of the Federal Govt.
"WASHINGTON -- Seeking to buttress the foreign policy credentials of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Republicans have repeatedly cited the vice presidential nominee's experience as commander of the Alaska National Guard.
As governor, Palin oversees military units whose duties include serving overseas, search-and-rescue missions across the state's vast landscape and manning key elements of the U.S. missile defense system at Ft. Greely.
But foreign deployments of Guard units and the operation of national defense assets like the Ft. Greely missile interceptors are not the responsibility of state governors. Those functions come under the regular U.S. military chain of command.
Commanding the Alaska National Guard is hardly an insignificant job, military officials say. Still, they acknowledge that it provides little, if any, foreign policy experience."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guard6-2008sep06,
0,6887188.story
Quote:Nor McCain. Let's drop the other three and put Painin in charge! Of course, if the only reason we should do that is all that executive experience she got as guvnuh, we ought to go with one of the seventeen of twenty two Republican governers who have more time in office than your dear Sarah. ( http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Pres/Maps/Sep03.html)
She is an EXECUTIVE, something Obama & Biden have never been.
Quote:Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
http://asianhistory.about.com/od/warsinasia/ig/Korean-War-Photos/Maril
yn-Monroe-in-Korea.htm
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Hello,
I was not aware of this information, River. I'm surprised it isn't being given greater publicity. I'll mark this in the 'good on her' category, to offset some of the things in the other column.
In the end, every politician is a combination of deeds and misdeeds, and it's important to catalog both of them, not just the propaganda useful to your personal worldview. It would be nice if those attacking her realized that she isn't a demon spawned from hell, and if those defending her realized she wasn't an Angel visiting from heaven, but rather a human person with many qualities.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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The Alaska National Guard Commander was interviewed on camera at length for a new documentary which is airing on a cable news show. I saw it, and I heard what he had to say. I didn't say the Guardsmen liked & respected her, he did. OK, He did. Can you understand the difference.
On your "present" jab at me..why? Don't you know Obama's voting record? You can look it up easily. A vast majority of the time he could not vote on something with a yes or no, as is required by law to actually mean something. He votes "present", which means what exactly? I'm not going to respond to any more of your posts because you're not sincere or honest. I understand why, what has happened to your hopes. It'll be ok.
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I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.
I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
I was not aware of this information, River. I'm surprised it isn't being given greater publicity. I'll mark this in the 'good on her' category, to offset some of the things in the other column.
In the end, every politician is a combination of deeds and misdeeds, and it's important to catalog both of them, not just the propaganda useful to your personal worldview. It would be nice if those attacking her realized that she isn't a demon spawned from hell, and if those defending her realized she wasn't an Angel visiting from heaven, but rather a human person with many qualities.
--Anthony
There are several specials planned. You won't see them on MSNBC or CNN. The Commander Of the Alaskan National Guard, Soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan, the current Mayor of Wasilla, the people of Wasilla, colleagues, friends, and opponents are all on camera. 80+% approval rating my friend is no easy task for any politician anywhere. Fought corruption, fought oil companies on behalf of the people. I love this gal!
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Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!
Hello,
This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable. There's nothing there to snark at or make fun of. I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership, but surely we can all agree that doing so is a good and positive thing that belongs in the "I like that about her" column of the tally sheet.
By goodness, there's nothing wrong with credit where credit is due. It's okay to like things about her. It doesn't mean you have to vote for her. It's not necessary to turn the contrast on the old television so high that everyone is black and white without any shade of gray.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.
I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!
Swish, I'll renege, and respond one more time. YOU simply tell me why Obama is more qualified for President than Palin would be, even though she's only running for VP. WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!
Hello,
This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable. There's nothing there to snark at or make fun of. I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership, but surely we can all agree that doing so is a good and positive thing that belongs in the "I like that about her" column of the tally sheet.
By goodness, there's nothing wrong with credit where credit is due. It's okay to like things about her. It doesn't mean you have to vote for her. It's not necessary to turn the contrast on the old television so high that everyone is black and white without any shade of gray.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
And Anthony, Sarah Palin didn't go there to entertain on a stage. She visited them in their barracks, in the hospitals, and in the mess hall. She knows their families back home. The Marilyn Monroe comparsion is just another in a long line of absurd attempted denigrations against her.
And by the way, no disrespect to Miss Monroe ever intended. Her volunteerism and support of our troops in Korea was admirable and courageous, something today that Hollywood's 90% of pinheads don't do.
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Quote:Check again. What you said was: "A super-quick study of any situation, she is fully supported by her troops and other state's as well." This was YOU saying this. Not anyone else. No reference given. No "I heard this on TV".
Originally posted by Riverlove:
The Alaska National Guard Commander was interviewed on camera at length for a new documentary which is airing on a cable news show. I saw it, and I heard what he had to say. I didn't say the Guardsmen liked & respected her, he did. OK, He did. Can you understand the difference.
Can you see now why it's good to show your sources, rather than throwing out a unreferenced statement? Was I supposed to read your mind and know where you got that?
I'll check out the interview if I can... Not on MSNBC or CNN? What is it on then? If you want any material to back up your statements, you have to let your debaters see your sources. That's just how it works!
Quote:Which jab is this? Seriously, I'm not sure what you're responded to. I said nothing about the "present" vote thing.
On your "present" jab at me..why?
Oh... I see, you're dwelling on this because you have no defense of my reply to your statements about Palin's foreign policy experience, executive experience, honesty, etc...
No need to reply. I see how it is. Sincerely,
from the bottom of my heart, I believe your defense of Sarah Palin to be a concrete as any other I've encountered. Which is to say: pretty much baseless. And even if you don't like my tone, you have to admit that I've replied to your statements with sourced counter arguments. Guess, like Tucker Bounds, your talking points can't handle direct questioning.
Added to your later post: BTW, I never said Obama was more qualified. I never mentioned Obama. My posts have all been about Palin. Changing the subject much?
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Quote:I'll tell ya why, 'cause she's a gorram nut, that's why.
Originally posted by Riverlove:
WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?
See, if her daughter was raped by an insane killer, she's want her daughter to have the kid, so it might have the chance to grow up & express the genetic traits of the father, get arrested, hopefully before killing/raping too many, and spend the rest of his life in prison, which we, the public, would pay for.
That's nutz in my book, is it in yours?
If McCain wins, he'd better ruttin' stay alive!!!
isall
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Hello,
It must be nice to get a visit from someone back home. Someone who can bring relevant news about what's going on, and how things are. Someone who can help you stay connected in a place that must seem so very far away.
Do we know her position on supporting the military legislatively? Sadly, many Republican leaders have a great emotional swell and connection to the troops, but fail to take advantage of opportunities to support them with law and loot. Mccain recently disappointed me in failing to support legislation that would have increased higher-learning dollars for our men in the sand.
What is Palin's position on such things? If given the opportunity, would she support more tangible boons for our troops, such as pay increases, better retirement and health benefits, expansion of the GI Bill, and housing? I've always wanted to make the military a competitive job opportunity. The sort of job people would want to spend a lifetime doing. I dream of a military filled with a majority of veterans who have served for a dozen or more years and plan to retire in the uniform. Will Palin help to make that a reality?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:And this is an example of missing the point. RiverLove used Palin's visit to Iraq and Afghanistan in a debate about foreign policy expertise, as if the visit proves her capable of holding the VP office.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable.
My point is: yeah, lots of people visit war zones. More of us would if we could, because we want to support our troops as much as possible. Does that alone make us worthy of holding high office?
Fine if you like Palin for it. But River didn't start this thread to say she liked Palin. She was quite clear in her point: that the Dems are dead and Repubs are taking over *because of the Pain choice.* And why? Because Palin visited Iraq?
Try again.
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Hmmm. And the Obama's don't give their two lovely children Birthday or Christmas presents, as the quote went in People. That kind of personal family stuff Chris is already blowing up in atomic proportions in all your faces, but if you insist, go for it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Hmmm. And the Obama's don't give their two lovely children Birthday or Christmas presents, as the quote went in People. That kind of personal family stuff Chris is already blowing up in atomic proportions in all your faces, but if you insist, go for it.
Hello,
River, it's really no one's business who gets presents of what type in the Obama family. I know plenty of decent people who don't even believe in the concept of birthday celebrations or Christmas either, seeing them as just another day on the calendar.
Respect must be offered in all directions. Your personal view on Holidays does not serve to make Obama a bad family man. I've seen no evidence to suggest he's anything but a genuinely good person. He may have different views from your own, but that makes him no more worthy of bashing than Palin is for the Democrats.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:As usual, you 'party line' types compare harmless quirks with potentially DEADLY patterns of thought.
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Hmmm. And the Obama's don't give their two lovely children Birthday or Christmas presents, as the quote went in People.
Just like how "Bush lied; people died" gets the comeback "Yeah, well Clinton lied to Congress about his blowjob"- ooohhh, good comparisons, guys.
Chrisisall
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And finally, Swish - Am I supposed to be Walter Cronkite or something here? Do you think all my posts are vetted and accredited by a staff of aides? These are obviously all just my opinions. It's all a metaphor for the present and future dramatic shift of tide in this election and in this culture. My statements are not, and never have been lies or gross distortions. You insist on obtusely parsing every written word. Good luck in the election.
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Quote:WHAT???
Originally posted by Riverlove:
These are obviously all just my opinions.
You don't bother with FACTS???!
Time out for you, young man.
GRRRRRisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:WHAT???
Originally posted by Riverlove:
These are obviously all just my opinions.
You don't bother with FACTS???!
Time out for you, young man.
GRRRRRisall
You going to tell me to shut up next dude? I won't, as you know, but I am a little tired with this current crop of posters. See you later.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:WHAT???
Originally posted by Riverlove:
These are obviously all just my opinions.
You don't bother with FACTS???!
Time out for you, young man.
GRRRRRisall
You going to tell me to shut up next dude? I won't, as you know, but I am a little tired with this current crop of posters. See you later.
Hello,
An unfortunate exit. I had some legitimate questions about Palin's stance on the military.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
And finally, Swish - Am I supposed to be Walter Cronkite or something here? Do you think all my posts are vetted and accredited by a staff of aides? These are obviously all just my opinions. It's all a metaphor for the present and future dramatic shift of tide in this election and in this culture. My statements are not, and never have been lies or gross distortions. You insist on obtusely parsing every written word. Good luck in the election.
ROFLMAO!!!! Oh my god, this really is good... First you get upset that I didn't magically know that your stated opinion was not yours, and now you want me to accept that everything you say is just your opinion? Make up your mind!
And please don't go into politics or anything that requires public debate. Metaphorical mishmash will not serve you well in this arena.
Anthony, I missed replying to your admirable effort to get this thread onto issues. I also am curious as to Palin's idea of troop support. I've found nothing about it. But then, she didn't exactly focus on issues in her speech, did she?
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Hello,
To be honest, I find political candidates, in general, to be woefully short on specifics.
Just once I'd like to see a political speech where a screen descends from the ceiling, the lights go out, and a projector turns on. Then, the candidate goes into a power-point presentation, explaining step-by-step what their policies are and how they expect to see these policies affect the nation.
But I guess that's not exciting. Instead we get a lot of rhetoric from all sides, and very few specifics. This is not a condemnation of any particular politician or party, but rather all of them. 'Fire them up' oratory is fine, but I'd prefer a university style lecture with some data behind it.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Just once I'd like to see a political speech where a screen descends from the ceiling, the lights go out, and a projector turns on. Then, the candidate goes into a power-point presentation, explaining step-by-step what their policies are and how they expect to see these policies affect the nation.
Ever find yourself actually missing Ross Perot's visual aids?
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Belatedly - welcome to the chaos and turbulence that is RWED, Swish.
EDIT: Actually yes, Eric - I didn't think much of his scheme cause of the near dictatorial power he would have required to pull it off, leaving a wide open door for later abuse, mind you...
But that man sure knew how to give a presentation, didn't he ?
-F
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Hello,
There is indeed something to be said for treating a political candidacy like a meeting of the Board of Directors.
To quote a fictional character from a great movie, "It's all about the Information!"
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And she goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to visit her troops stationed there too. Quite a lady, huh?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Didn't Marilyn Monroe visit troops too? Damn! We should'a voted her in rather than JFK! Talk about a lady!
Hello,
This is an example of what I'm speaking of. You may have many reasons not to like Palin as a VP candidate, but visiting National Guard troops while they are stationed overseas is nothing but commendable. There's nothing there to snark at or make fun of. I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership, but surely we can all agree that doing so is a good and positive thing that belongs in the "I like that about her" column of the tally sheet.
By goodness, there's nothing wrong with credit where credit is due. It's okay to like things about her. It doesn't mean you have to vote for her. It's not necessary to turn the contrast on the old television so high that everyone is black and white without any shade of gray.
Aw, fer cryin' outloud, Anthony! I like myself a good deal and I'm very fond of my cats, but I know perfectly well neither my cats nor I are qualified to be the freakin' President of the United States of American! Visiting troops requires no more expertise than going to spring break in Cabo.
There are no shades of grey with this--it's irrelevent. She is the Empiror's New Clothes. Palin's running for VP would be a human interest story at best, if not for the Republican machine so suddenly behind her. All this guff about her being "the most beloved governor in the country" is based on 20 months of serving in that office--it's still the honey moon and she beat out a corrupt jackass, by all accounts. And part of that approval rating in Alaska comes from her giving every Alaskan kickbacks from federal pork. In essence, she took yours and my federal tax dollars to buy her glowing approval rating.
They're making the democratic process itself into a farce. She represented no one on a national scale until the king makers in the GOP handed her this gig last week. There are scores of more qualified people in that party than her, men and women. Qualified for the office, I mean.
We're talking about the Presidency of the United States of American! So, really, what I'm gathering from all this is that the only qualification one needs to be President is popularity. Our democracy as finally dumbed down absolutely to the level of High School. I should be looking for Sarah Palin's name scrawled in colored chalk on the sidewalk surrounded by hearts and stars. If enough people like your produc--excuse me, candidate, well that's that. As Steve Colbert would say, the market has spoken!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
The party's over indeed, for the Democrats that is. Thanks to their rabid legions of defenders of liberalism pre-speech vitriolic attacks against Sarah Palin and her family, they have doomed themselves into extinction. They have set the stage, and they have ignited and elevated Sarah to instantly become an ideological icon. An icon that represents almost everything that the Left despises, but rings oh so true to so many millions of people. How dare they criticize her love of family, her ability to govern while still loving and caring for her family. Did they ever ask a man that? They prefer the Clinton style of family obviously, separate parents with a single child. How downright stupid or desperate or both are they to go after an 80% approval rating Governor, a woman with a track record of successfully defeating all her opponents? Are they totally nuts? With respects to Helen Reddy, Palin is woman, hear her roar. Oh, the hardcore Left will hold on for a while, but where are the "feminists"; oh that's right , you can be a family woman with a career, just as long as you subscribe to the social and political positions that NOW, Oprah, NARAL, Planned Parenthoood, et al fully support, which is Obama. And they indeed have a right to support positions and candidates. But don't try to con anyone that you are independent and care about women, all women. That game ends with Sarah Palin. She will be everywhere, all the time now thanks to the tidal wave of both love and admiration for this great woman, and the extreme backlash against the political, media, and celebrity attackers. She's going to be a great campaigner, and will attract millions of new and independent voters to her causes. Her one debate with Biden will be maybe bigger than the 2 Presidential debates. An event of historic importance. The clashing of two worlds in many ways. I wonder what the Jihadist terrorists think of her. And something tells me that the Europeans and world leaders are going to love her too. Oprah's passing on Sarah, so will Ellen have her on? She danced so cutely with Barack, will she dance with Sarah?
What the hell are you talking about? I keep "hearing" about all the vitriol being spat by democrats - but funny thing I haven't actually HEARD any democrats spewing - so SPECIFICALLY what the hell are you talking about? Fox news talking about the democrats spewing or Rush or some other vitriol spewing hater?
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:Nature of an evil business. Anyone who talks in specifies gets crucified.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
To be honest, I find political candidates, in general, to be woefully short on specifics.
Yeah, Ross Perot tried. And Gore had a movie that was really just a glorified ppt presentation. Was that a success or not? Hard to tell - it did get the global warming ball rolling, but he also got criticized quite a bit.
I'm with you, though Anthony. In my dream world this whole political circus becomes something more dignified and informative. Which is maybe why I have to attack arguments like Riverlove's - we won't get an informed government until we insist on being educated, not inflamed. Folks shouting their opinions from treetops day after day, with no regard as to whether their theories fit reality, is going to get us nothing but more Bush and Cheney.
Thanks Frem!
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"I doubt anyone would argue that visiting troops overseas is the sole qualifying factor for presidential leadership"
Hello HKCavalier,
If you read above, you may recognize my statement that visiting troops overseas is not a sole qualifying criteria for a presidential post. I'll go further and say it's not even in the top twenty. But does it matter? Yes, absolutely. I want my leaders to extend every possible boon and benefit to our soldiers, including emotional comfort and support. It does matter to me that a potential leader has evidenced their care for our military by investing their bodily person and time in an effort to comfort them. Doesn't that matter to you?
Suggesting that anyone is making an Iraq or Afghani visit into the number one most important thing about a V.P. is swerving widely around the truth. So is suggesting that it doesn't matter at all.
It's okay to say, "Visiting the troops? That's a quality I admire in a leader."
The thing that bothers me about politics is how polarized it becomes, to the point where people become unable to see anything positive in their 'foes' and can only see positive things about their 'friends.'
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Hey Anthony,
We're trying to determine if this virtually unknown Governor of a tiny population is qualified to be President of the United States. I think a candidate should be solidly qualified in at least, let's say, half of those top 20 catagories before we begin to consider her as an actual candidate. With Palin, people are skipping these top catagories and going straight to "She's from a small town!!!!" "She hunts moose!!!!" At this point, issues of poise and good will ambassadorship should not be on the table. They come after you've qualified on the basics, whatever you consider those basics to be, right? Otherwise, every first lady we've ever had should have been president.
I know people get polarized, but the solution is not some abitrary even-handedness, "Well, Bush bungled the Iraq war, but he sure plays a mean harmonica!"
All we got--all McCain has got!--are first impressions with this candidate. My first impression is terribly unfavorable, I gotta say. That speech of hers was an embarrassment to the democratic process. Low-ball snark and flat-out lies. Remember when folks used to talk about "presidential" as a quality in a candidate? Way back, oh, last week, I guess?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Hello HKCavalier,
Ah, but you're missing my point here.
The fact that concern for military personnel isn't in your top twenty list of important things doesn't make it wholly unimportant nor worthy of mockery. I consider it to be much more important, say, than playing the harmonica. Or even the saxaphone.
I consider it to be much more important than whether a candidate gives birthday presents to their kids.
I consider it to be much more important than whether a candidate's teenage daughter is pregnant.
I consider it to be much more important than whether a candidate has hair plugs.
I consider it to be much more important than a host of truly unimportant things that have surfaced in this election. It may not score highest, but it does score and it is not worthy of mockery.
I'll tell you the other sides of that coin: Following up emotional support of the troops with material support IS in my top-twenty most valuable leadership traits list. Visiting her National Guard troops could be vital if it also describes her stance on legislation to support them. On the other hand, if she is willing to visit them but NOT willing to push for more benefits for them, then THAT TOO IS VITAL INFORMATION, because it would show that her support is shallow and hollow, lacking depth or substance.
Someone mocked, and loudly, (I paraphrase) "Marilyn Monroe visited the troops, too! Does that make her VP material?!"
To that I answer, "No. But if Marilyn Monroe was up for V.P., then her stance on troop support would be a very important thing to know, for reasons I've made very clear."
I'll go on and surprise you with some other news. The fact that she hunts is also very important to me. It means she recognizes sportsman's rights and the value of the second ammendment. THAT GOES IN THE TOP TWENTY, TOO!
You know what else goes in the top twenty? The possibility that she used her power to settle a personal vendetta. IF she is proved guilty of that charge, it will mean that she is willing to use her power to hurt those who offend her. I am not comfortable with that.
You know what else goes in the top twenty? She wanted to ban books. This is a policy I don't agree with under any circumstances. Free Speech and Open Learning are important to me.
What you won't see me do is ignore either her good or her bad traits. It all matters, and it's all worth noting. We ought not to pooh pooh the good qualities along with the bad just because we don't like her. We ought not to overlook the bad stuff and champion the good stuff just because we do like her.
Fairness, Even-handedness, and all the shades of gray and all the colors I can absorb.
Thanks,
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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AnthonyT
I actually agreed with 99.5% of your post. Then you trotted out the 2nd amendment "sportsman" thing.
The Second Amendment to the Costitution had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with sport hunting, skeet shooting or target practice. What it DID have to do with was whether or not individuals should be allowed to protect their home and community from invasion by arming themselves. This was due to the fact that historically in England arming oneself without express permission from the King was an act of treason.
I really wish all the pro-gun NRA people would stop trying top make it mean something it doesn't.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Oops. Sorry. Wrong thread!
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Hello,
I actually think that the 2nd ammendment was enacted to enable citizenry to overthrow their government.
But it doesn't matter WHY the 2nd ammendment was enacted, really. We can argue that some other time. As long as you let the citizens keep their guns. That part is unambiguous.
The thing could say, "Because shiny metal objects are cool, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." It really doesn't matter why, so much as what: The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
And a hunter who uses a gun is less likely to argue for guns to be outlawed. That's why it's important. (to me)
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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But Anthony,
A trip to visit the troops does not a policy make. You have to add a lot of ancillary provisos before her visit becomes presidential rather than simple, sentimental pandering. We've seen that sort of thing a lot from the Republicans. Lip service to support and disregard in their policies. What gets me is that the Republicans think they can run on sentimentality and personality (cult of personality?) alone.
I appreciate how important our troops have become in the national consciousness since Gulf War I. One of the great consequences of that conflict was that it healed a wound in our nation that had been festering since the Vietnam war--the profoundly unjust scapegoating of the troops for the horrors they were subjected to and participated in. A genuine commitment to our troops is a very important characteristic of a CiC. No question about it.
And I can see how a sportsman might appreciate that the President of the United States is also a sportsman. But, I'm sorry. I'm a writer and I greatly appreciate that Obama has actually written a couple books and is clearly capable of writing exceptionally lucid and heart-felt speeches. It speaks to qualities of character, of sincerity and personal integrity, critical thinking skills that I find enormously refreshing in a presidential candidate.
Bu-uh-ut!
I don't think anyone should be crowing, "Vote Obama! He writes books!" Being President of the United States is not about writing books and it's not about shooting moose either.
The burden of proof, as it were, is on Palin to show me that she's got what it takes to RUN OUR COUNTRY. That's the job she's applying for! And so far, she has done NOTHING to convince me that she's anywhere near that league. Not anywhere near! And, from the look of things, she doesn't look like she'll be even trying any time soon.
Reading the news this week is like a trip to Bizarro World where all you need is a clear speaking voice, a ready smile and to parrot all the right opinions to be a strong candidate for President of the United States of America. Her principle qualification is that she's willing to agree with the party line. That's it. That, and putting up with "Bad Touch Uncle" McCain's groping for a kiss after every appearance--for that she has my greatest sympathy.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:But here you're twisting *my* post, Anthony. I thought I clarified my intent already, but let me do it again. Riverlove's mention of the troop visit was in the context that it constituted foreign policy experience for Palin - exactly the thing that you yourself say is silly. Well, not in the top 20 is how you word it. I say: silly. My post about Marilyn was to say: silly.
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Someone mocked, and loudly, (I paraphrase) "Marilyn Monroe visited the troops, too! Does that make her VP material?!"
To that I answer, "No. But if Marilyn Monroe was up for V.P., then her stance on troop support would be a very important thing to know, for reasons I've made very clear."
I was not mocking Palin's visit to the troops. (In earnest, I'm confused as to how you're seeing it that way!) I was mocking the assertion that a simple hand-shaking visit the troops makes a person a viable candidate for vice president of the US. It that's true of Palin, then it'd be true of... well, hell, Marilyn Monroe! That was my point.
Capiche? Why are we still talking about this?
Edit to add: I will say, Anthony, that I like how you call foul or add support to either side. Straight shooting guy for sure, and that's rare on the internets.
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Foreign policy experience? The woman didn't even have a passport until 2007 when she went for her photo op with the National Guard in Kuwait and Germany.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Hello,
I agree that Palin seems to have no foreign policy experience.
I don't know if this means she has no international diplomacy experience. They may not necessarily be the same thing. For instance, I have no idea if she hosted foreign dignitaries, or participated in fishing waters talks with Russia, or drug importation with Canada, or anything of that nature.
I can imagine how such negotiations might have come to be, but I've yet to hear anyone say that they've taken place.
So no, I've seen no evidence of foreign policy experience from this candidate.
I do feel that if experience is a central issue (it really isn't for me) then there isn't a huge gulf between Obama and Palin. I'd really like to see 'experience' dropped from the table because if THAT was a major qualifier (or disqualifier) for the post, neither of them would be up for it.
Fortunately it really isn't. I hear tell that some of our least experienced leaders are the best remembered.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I know experience is not the most important criterion (the only folk with experience being President are incumbents and former Presidents, after all--but that's also one of the reasons why incumbents are so very hard to beat), but is it too much to ask that a candidate try to demonstrate a little foreign policy knowledge? Or knowledge of anything tangible for that matter? A totally puffy, fraudulent, "red meat" speech is to be expected from the likes of Fred Thompson because that's why he's at the convention. He ain't running for office. Shouldn't we expect a little more from the VP candidate? Her speech was like a lengthy blog post--nothing to indicate that she has any kind of grasp of the issues whatsoever. And on the strength of this one appearance, the entire Republican base is behind her? It's absurd. There are dozens of more qualified people in the GOP. At what point would the right-wing call B.S. on their party's VP pick? I would really rather not find out.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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My problem with Palin, other than that she does not have the credentials to be President, is that she is a hypocrite. She talks about "making the choice" to carry her son, yet wants to deprive other women of that ability.
As for foreign policy - she would not be involved in "fishing water talks" with Russia, that is State Department purview or perhaps Department of the Interior or some other Federal agency - not the Govenor of Alaska's.
Lets face it, she has limited "executive" experience, we have no proof of any degree or knowledge in any area and if she isn't guilty of wrongdoing in the ethics arena certainly has allowed the perception that she has - and that in itself is a problem.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
The Second Amendment to the Costitution had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with sport hunting, skeet shooting or target practice. What it DID have to do with was whether or not individuals should be allowed to protect their home and community from invasion by arming themselves. This was due to the fact that historically in England arming oneself without express permission from the King was an act of treason.
Thank you, FMF.
I don't care for the NRA's mealymouthed soft-shoeing either, myself.
My affliation (watch PN crap a cinderblock) is actually with the JFPO, cause they know what *happens* once you hand them over.
http://www.jpfo.org/
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
My affliation (watch PN crap a cinderblock) is actually with the JFPO, cause they know what *happens* once you hand them over.
http://www.jpfo.org/
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
UM ok. Militant Jews are cool. But don't agree with them either
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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RE: the 2nd Amendment. It's always amazed me that so many people on both sides of the gun control argument seem to be ignorant of the Founders' intention. The discourse is completely ass-backwards. There are plenty of big pro-gun types that never want to see their precious government so much as criticized (terrorist!!!!), pro-gun types that love law enforcement so very much that the term "cop groupie" had to be introduced to the language.
On the other hand, there are plenty of anti-gun folks who are completely unaware of how the right to bear arms might safe-guard them from precisely the fascist take-over they fear most.
It's ironic, 'cause the most winning argument the authoritarian NRA types would have to get liberal's to sign on with the pro-gun folks is the one argument that might undermine the authoritarianism they so charish.
Only in America...
Makes sense though: no Public School is gonna teach its students that they should ready themselves to resist the government at a moment's notice. 
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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I have no problem with people owning guns responsibly. I DO have a problem with people who have no idea what it is they are citing for the affirmation of their right to own guns.
cuzItsjuststupidisALL
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Seig Heil!
Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'
Palin asked the students to pray for the troops in Iraq, and noted that her eldest son, Track, was expected to be deployed there.
www.freedomsphoenix.com/Find-Freedom.htm?At=037792
Molech requires child sacrifice at Jewish Bohemian Grove...
Jews sacrificing their kids to Molech in Jerusalem Israel
Jews sacrificing their kids to Molech in Jerusalem Israel
Jews and presidents on vacation at Bohemian Grove in California USA
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Hey, PN, has anyone ever just asked you why the fascination with the Jews? I mean, I can totally understand your beef with authority, given your background, your distrust of power and all, but why the Jews? It's like blaming all the world's evil on Inuits or Palestinians. They're just a people, treated like crap for centuries, doing what they can to get by. Why hate Jewish people, PN? Without all the big pictures and URL's can you just tell me?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.
I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!
Swish, I'll renege, and respond one more time. YOU simply tell me why Obama is more qualified for President than Palin would be, even though she's only running for VP. WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?
I'm still waiting to see someone give a decent response to your queston Riverlove. They can't do it without ignoring reality. I'll concede that Palin's experience level isn't what I'd like to see in a Presidential candidate, but if McCain can stay alive for a few years, I think she'll be up to speed. The problem for the Dem's is, their candidate who has almost no experience of any kind is going straight for the top job. Not only does he have a total lack of executive experience, his foreign policy experience is barely a match for Palin. This is one of the most brilliant things about having Palin on the ticket, every time anyone brings up her experience level it leads to a comparison between her and Obama. It's like they're just conceding that Obama's no match for McCain. The one positive for the Dems is that in picking Palin, McCain has somewhat conceded that foreign policy experience isn't essential. Though she's a good match for Obama, neither is anywhere near ready to be President today.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.
I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!
Swish, I'll renege, and respond one more time. YOU simply tell me why Obama is more qualified for President than Palin would be, even though she's only running for VP. WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?
I'm still waiting to see someone give a decent response to your queston Riverlove. They can't do it without ignoring reality. I'll concede that Palin's experience level isn't what I'd like to see in a Presidential candidate, but if McCain can stay alive for a few years I think she'll be up to speed. The problem for the Dem's is, their candidate who has almost no experience of any kind is going straight for the top job. Not only does he have a total lack of executive experience, his foreign policy experience is barely a match for Palin. This is one of the most brilliant things about having Palin on the ticket, every time anyone brings up her experience level it leads to a comparison between her and Obama. It's like they're just conceding that Obama's no match for McCain. The one positive for the Dems is that in picking Palin, McCain has somewhat conceded that foreign policy experience isn't essential. Though she's a good match for Obama, neither is anywhere near ready to be President today.
oh bullshit
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
oh bullshit
I'll take that as a yes. You are capable of completely ignoring reality.
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Oh don't get me wrong, FMF...
I can't say I actually like em either, it's just that they are suitibly single minded and rabid about it to offer a strong bulwark against the infringement of those rights is all.
Like a big nasty rottie in your front yard, you know ?
Might not agree with his outlook on life, but he's right useful to have there, yes ?
My perspective on the whole matter is entirely from a Founder/Constitutional viewpoint, given how often I have expressed it while correcting misperceptions around here.
Quote:
I have no problem with people owning guns responsibly. I DO have a problem with people who have no idea what it is they are citing for the affirmation of their right to own guns.
Indeed, for mine own - I am quite fond of quoting Pat Henry, Madison, and others who had some awful strong words on the subject during debates over the proposed Constitution.
"The great objective is that everyone be armed.. everyone who is able may have a gun."
Pat Henry, speeches related to the Federalist Papers.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution.
I know chapter and verse where the codification of that right came from, and am quite willing (some would say TOO willing!
) to educate folk about it, at length, lol.As for PN....
HKC - I think somewhere in there, he's done gotten the (incorrect) impression that the religion, state of isreal and zionist political movements like the likud party are all just one big collective of the same crap under the banner of judaism, which isn't necessarily true, but the collective historical actions of those folk could give that impression if one wasn't looking too closely due to their own internal biases.
I'm pissed off at some of em too, but my issues are with their Government, rather than their people as a whole.
Oh, yeah, and this... since ya want an answer so bad.
Quote:
WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?
Cause everytime the Obama bash fest subsides a little, the bashers come away looking like morons while his campaign gets a boost, it's almost like watching a Rocky Balboa fight, I swear.
Whereas Palin just looks a nasty little leftover of harper valley PTA politics who's completely out of her little fishbowl and not being the big fish of the tank anymore, bears a rather remarkable resemblence to bait.
THAT is why.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Cause everytime the Obama bash fest subsides a little, the bashers come away looking like morons while his campaign gets a boost, it's almost like watching a Rocky Balboa fight, I swear.
Whereas Palin just looks a nasty little leftover of harper valley PTA politics who's completely out of her little fishbowl and not being the big fish of the tank anymore, bears a rather remarkable resemblence to bait.
THAT is why.
-Frem
Given you logic, Obama should have a big lead in the polls after the "bash fest" that the GOP convention was. Latest RCP average of polls has Obama 46.6%, McCain 44.2%. Hardly a big boost for Obama,with the margin of error the race is tied. Not a great performance in a year the Dems should be running away with it.
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That's cause he just keeps mumbling vague but hopeful sounding platitudes while letting the GOP do half his job for him - he IS a politician, you know, and apparently a lazy one.
I figure we're gonna get stuck with him, and as such am already planning to use my state and local reps to block the living shit out of any attempt to roll back our right to self defense.
He can "have a plan" in that respect all he wants, nothin says we gotta let him carry it out, you know.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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I stand by the topic's assertion with every fiber of my body and mind that the Democrat's are finished. You can't stop Sarah Palin, just like you can't stop the Signal. Every day, every time some Liberal or Democratic Palin basher shoots off their stupid mouth due to some personal meltdown or desperate anguish over Palin, and spews forth their disgusting lies, distortions, sexist attacks, and family attacks against her, she only grows in popularity. The incredible backlash emerging all over the country in support of Sarah Palin and her family is a genuine comfort for me and millions of women including married working moms, and single working moms. And the backlash is also coming from many Democrats who see the over-the-line and insane vitriole against Palin as dis-tasteful and damaging to Obama himself. Democratic strategists like Kirsten Powers, Laura Schwartz, and others are sickened by it. So are the majority of clear-thinking smart people from both sides. Freddie The Beetle Barnes calls her a rare gifted natural. Speaking before her first large crowd, and to 37 million TV viewers, she comes out and goes to town. She had to follow Guiliani too, and he was remarkably truthful and blunt. He spoke of Obama's total utter lack of executive experience and responsibilities. Also his sad minimalist record of writing legislation, his bizarre refusal to vote yes or no on legislative votes, and then he looked at McCain's long record of respected bi-partisan legislation. But Sarah Palin took it to a whole new level, something completely un-imagined. The political war not to just encompass the culture war, but to feature it. Obama only has to face McCain in two debates, but he will have to deal with Sarah Palin every day. A pit bull with lipstick indeed, and that lipstick may be the goodnight kiss for Obama. He said recently that families are off limits, and then one of his campaign advisors comes out criticizing her personal life choices, urging her back into the home to bake cookies and pies. An old-fashioned Democrat? I didn't think they existed. I guess he believes that a woman can't do what a man can do, work hard and raise a family with love, and that he has some right to question her and her husband's life choices. How vulgar and ignorant! And really stupid too, because she's done it superbly all her life. Once again, Obama was forced to distance himself from that statement pronto. If he keeps having to denounce the rhetoric, and distance himself from his most ardent supporters, there won't be anybody that he'll be able to be seen with anymore. Obama is sinking badly because some of his supporters' mis-guided efforts are sowing the seeds of his inevitable defeat. Keep it up, please. Bring on the "experience" debate, bring on the sexist attacks that belittle her commitment to duty and family. Your best efforts will never make her irrelevant, they'll only highlight her greatness and superiority over your feeble candidates. I'll wager that Hillary is laughing her ass off, and may be the happiest person in the world.. She won't have to wait 8 years now. She is likely already planning her new campaign for President in 2012, to begin the day after John & Sarah are sworn in next year.
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Quote:Actually the better question is, why is Obama's experience an issue and Palin's isn't. It was the Republican organ that trumpeted Obama's lack of experience, the same organ that is saying Palin has plenty of experience now.
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I'm still waiting to see someone give a decent response to your queston Riverlove. They can't do it without ignoring reality. I'll concede that Palin's experience level isn't what I'd like to see in a Presidential candidate, but if McCain can stay alive for a few years, I think she'll be up to speed. The problem for the Dem's is, their candidate who has almost no experience of any kind is going straight for the top job. Not only does he have a total lack of executive experience, his foreign policy experience is barely a match for Palin. This is one of the most brilliant things about having Palin on the ticket, every time anyone brings up her experience level it leads to a comparison between her and Obama. It's like they're just conceding that Obama's no match for McCain. The one positive for the Dems is that in picking Palin, McCain has somewhat conceded that foreign policy experience isn't essential. Though she's a good match for Obama, neither is anywhere near ready to be President today.
All I've seen is people saying that she has less experience than Obama, so how come her's is expansive and his is non-existent? How come it's an issue that right-wings have had major arse ache over when it's about Obama, but they laud Palin's experience which is at very best on a par with Obama's. You're prescribing a hypocrisy to the other side that is solely you're own.
So why is Obama's experience an issue and Palin's perfectly fine? Given what being a Vice President means, it's bollocks to suggest that the Vice President doesn't need the same credentials or vetting as the President (indeed, doesn't the constitution demand that a Vice President have the same illegibility as a Presidential Candidate). McCain could keel over the day after his inauguration, it's unlikely but it could happen. Any argument hinging on her learning on the Job is weak. If Obama's experience is an issue, so is Palin's, and the Republicans have been trumpeting his lack of experience through out, now they have a candidate on their ticket whose really less experienced, and they're talking about how experienced she is, because her plane landed in Ireland once. Hell, it's a shame she didn't go there at the height of the troubles, you could give her a medal for flying over a war zone. It smacks of hypocrisy, and getting indignant now that your own statements are being thrown back at you and whining that it's different for your side, smacks of obtuseness, be it by accident or design.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
I'm not out to attack Palin, I'm attacking the flaccid arguments being used to support this joke of a nomination. I want my country to be better than a battle of personalities, a bundle of lies, and leaders who will continue Bush's history of destroying what's good about America.
I won't deny that I don't like Palin much, and I'm not about to act like I do just to be polite. She's out to lead my country, to represent me and mine on the world stage. I damned well better speak up while I can!
Swish, I'll renege, and respond one more time. YOU simply tell me why Obama is more qualified for President than Palin would be, even though she's only running for VP. WHY IS SHE A JOKE, AND OBAMA ISN'T?
I'm still waiting to see someone give a decent response to your queston Riverlove. They can't do it without ignoring reality. I'll concede that Palin's experience level isn't what I'd like to see in a Presidential candidate, but if McCain can stay alive for a few years, I think she'll be up to speed. The problem for the Dem's is, their candidate who has almost no experience of any kind is going straight for the top job. Not only does he have a total lack of executive experience, his foreign policy experience is barely a match for Palin. This is one of the most brilliant things about having Palin on the ticket, every time anyone brings up her experience level it leads to a comparison between her and Obama. It's like they're just conceding that Obama's no match for McCain. The one positive for the Dems is that in picking Palin, McCain has somewhat conceded that foreign policy experience isn't essential. Though she's a good match for Obama, neither is anywhere near ready to be President today.
Kirkules, don't underestimate Sarah Palin. She's been with her National Guard troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and will get internationally refreshed quite quickly. She'll be as eloquent and informed as anyone else, probably more eloquent and informed than anyone else. Her domestic knowledge and record is impeccable. She's a Governor, actually the most popular Governor in the whole country, and argueably the best. She has been tested for years under innumerable stressfull and complicated situations. She knows how to negotiate and be strong. Harry Truman came from a small town, and he was able to rise to the challenges of the job and times. I would want the guy with the black box walking behind Palin before either of the Dems. if it ever came to that.
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Funny you say that when she's bending the knee to AIPAC and selling us out as quick as possible.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3591809,00.html
Hint for AMERICAN presidential candidates - maybe Tel Aviv shouldn't be your *first* fucking stop on the campaign trail, yes ?
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually the better question is, why is Obama's experience an issue and Palin's isn't. It was the Republican organ that trumpeted Obama's lack of experience, the same organ that is saying Palin has plenty of experience now.
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I'm still waiting to see someone give a decent response to your queston Riverlove. They can't do it without ignoring reality. I'll concede that Palin's experience level isn't what I'd like to see in a Presidential candidate, but if McCain can stay alive for a few years, I think she'll be up to speed. The problem for the Dem's is, their candidate who has almost no experience of any kind is going straight for the top job. Not only does he have a total lack of executive experience, his foreign policy experience is barely a match for Palin. This is one of the most brilliant things about having Palin on the ticket, every time anyone brings up her experience level it leads to a comparison between her and Obama. It's like they're just conceding that Obama's no match for McCain. The one positive for the Dems is that in picking Palin, McCain has somewhat conceded that foreign policy experience isn't essential. Though she's a good match for Obama, neither is anywhere near ready to be President today.
All I've seen is people saying that she has less experience than Obama, so how come her's is expansive and his is non-existent? How come it's an issue that right-wings have had major arse ache over when it's about Obama, but they laud Palin's experience which is at very best on a par with Obama's. You're prescribing a hypocrisy to the other side that is solely you're own.
So why is Obama's experience an issue and Palin's perfectly fine? Given what being a Vice President means, it's bollocks to suggest that the Vice President doesn't need the same credentials or vetting as the President (indeed, doesn't the constitution demand that a Vice President have the same illegibility as a Presidential Candidate). McCain could keel over the day after his inauguration, it's unlikely but it could happen. Any argument hinging on her learning on the Job is weak. If Obama's experience is an issue, so is Palin's, and the Republicans have been trumpeting his lack of experience through out, now they have a candidate on their ticket whose really less experienced, and they're talking about how experienced she is, because her plane landed in Ireland once. Hell, it's a shame she didn't go there at the height of the troubles, you could give her a medal for flying over a war zone. It smacks of hypocrisy, and getting indignant now that your own statements are being thrown back at you and whining that it's different for your side, smacks of obtuseness, be it by accident or design.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
I think if you had read my post you would have seen that I conceded a couple of your major points. Let me get this straight, your argument is that because the Dems picked their unqualified candidate out of ignorance of the qualifications needed for the Presidency or even worse they genuinely believe Obama is the most qualified in their Party to be President, it's somehow OK. But because the Republicans picked a candidate for VP that's more qualified than Obama but not as qualified as you think she should be that's not OK. Yes, the Republicans pick is a cynical attempted to get votes, but at least it's an intelligent political move that will probably win them the election.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Kirkules, don't underestimate Sarah Palin.
I definitely don't underestimate her, just trying to maintain some perspective. I'm as exited as anyone about Palin's candidacy because I've always believed the the first woman and the first Black President will be Republicans. Palin obviously has the experience with the domestic economy and the intelligence to be President. She will have no problem getting up to speed on the foreign affairs side, but at the moment I can't help but concede that she's somewhat lacking.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I think if you had read my post you would have seen that I conceded a couple of your major points. Let me get this straight, your argument is that because the Dems picked their unqualified candidate out of ignorance of the qualifications needed for the Presidency or even worse they genuinely believe Obama is the most qualified in their Party to be President, it's somehow OK. But because the Republicans picked a candidate for VP that's more qualified than Obama but not as qualified as you think she should be that's not OK. Yes, the Republicans pick is a cynical attempted to get votes, but at least it's an intelligent political move that will probably win them the election.
I did read your post, and responded directly to it. Conceding major points I brought up? I was constructing an argument, and those major points are part of that argument, I don't see why I'd omit them simply because you've already conceded them.
However, if you think any of your rebuttal address my own points, or that you've even actually come close to clarifying my position, perhaps you should try reading my post before responding.
My point was that the Vice President shouldn't have any more of a free pass with experience than the President. I further said that your attempt to portray the Democrats as being the ones picking on Palin's experience is disingenuous at best. Palin has, at best equal experience to Obama, and it's the Republicans that brought his experience into question, the same Republicans that are now talking about how expansive Palin's experience is. That's hypocritical. I then said that trying to portray the Democrats as doing what the Republicans are in fact doing, is obtuse.
Almost as obtuse as you missing all that the first time around. My contention was never about who had the most experience, of who made the best choice, it was about how the Republican praise for Palin is so amazingly and obviously partisan, and how you trying to portray what the Republicans have been doing as a specific flaw ONLY of the Democrats was pretty laughable. That's three times I've said it now, once in the last post, twice here.
As for how intelligent it is? Well, my yard stick for intelligent decisions is that they are considered, measured and, well yanno, intelligent. Palin's appointment falls short all the way, the only people who could really see it as intelligent are the Choir, the Republican voters who'd never vote any other way even if the Republican Presidential candidate was an openly Gay Muslim and the Vice President his lover and Horse.
Getting the Choir to think you're infallible and wonderful isn't hard, and it doesn't require intelligence. The initial stories I've been hearing is that undecided voters have been turned off if anything. Even some Republican supporters think it was a bad idea, but hey the die hard supporters who will always think the appointment is good no matter what, thinks it's good.
As for probably win the election? Possibly, the American electorate has managed to make some colossally stupid decisions recently. Certainly if you want more fiscal irresponsibility, and further erosion of America's already rock bottom international image, McCain's your man. Why you'd actually want that I don't know, but I suppose some people are into sadomasochism.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
She is an EXECUTIVE, something Obama & Biden have never been.
You left out McCain, who also has never had any kind of executive experience.
And Obama knows a little something about law and the Constitution, something Palin has absolutely no experience with. Can you name me a single law that she's authored? Just one?
That's the game you're playing. "He's never been a governor." Yeah, and she's never been a legislator.
What are her accomplishments in office, exactly? List them.
She fought pork. Only she didn't. Alaska ranks #1 on the pork-barrel spending list per capita, getting 10 times as much per-capita pork spending than any other state in the nation.
She sold the governor's private jet on eBay, at a profit. Her claim, remember - too bad it's an out and out lie. She didn't sell it on eBay - she LISTED it on eBay, three times, and it didn't sell. She sold it through a broker, but not at a profit; she sold it for $2.1 million, and the state paid $2.7 million for it - a net loss of $600,000, before brokerage fees. So she actually cost the taxpayers of Alaska more than half a million bucks with that
"cost-cutting" decision.
She was against the Bridge to Nowhere, and told the federal government "Thanks, but no thanks." Only that's a lie. She hired an Abramoff-connected lobbyist to lobby for the bridge money, she campaigned in favor of the bridge, and made that one of the issues in her campaign, and she gladly took the federal money when it was offered. She didn't say "Thanks, but no thanks" as she claims - she took the money, and then redirected it to her own favorite pork-barrel issues.
So fill me in - what are her REAL accomplishments?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
She is an EXECUTIVE, something Obama & Biden have never been.
You left out McCain, who also has never had any kind of executive experience.
And Obama knows a little something about law and the Constitution, something Palin has absolutely no experience with. Can you name me a single law that she's authored? Just one?
That's the game you're playing. "He's never been a governor." Yeah, and she's never been a legislator.
What are her accomplishments in office, exactly? List them.
She fought pork. Only she didn't. Alaska ranks #1 on the pork-barrel spending list per capita, getting 10 times as much per-capita pork spending than any other state in the nation.
She sold the governor's private jet on eBay, at a profit. Her claim, remember - too bad it's an out and out lie. She didn't sell it on eBay - she LISTED it on eBay, three times, and it didn't sell. She sold it through a broker, but not at a profit; she sold it for $2.1 million, and the state paid $2.7 million for it - a net loss of $600,000, before brokerage fees. So she actually cost the taxpayers of Alaska more than half a million bucks with that
"cost-cutting" decision.
She was against the Bridge to Nowhere, and told the federal government "Thanks, but no thanks." Only that's a lie. She hired an Abramoff-connected lobbyist to lobby for the bridge money, she campaigned in favor of the bridge, and made that one of the issues in her campaign, and she gladly took the federal money when it was offered. She didn't say "Thanks, but no thanks" as she claims - she took the money, and then redirected it to her own favorite pork-barrel issues.
So fill me in - what are her REAL accomplishments?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
I love you man!
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I love you man!
Right back atcha!
Hey, we're all in this together. And as ol' Franklin once said, "We must surely hang together, or we will all hang separately."
M
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Brand new Zogby Poll has McCain up by four points, and the brand new Rassmusson Poll has him up by three. Initial trends indicate a growing Palin effect with a possible 6-10 point McCain lead by end of the week. These are the expert's new numbers, but I'll predict that McCain will be up over Obama by 12 points during next three weeks before the first debate. Then comes the VP debate. The Palin-Biden match-up should leave McCain up for good after that. It will probably be the most watched TV event in history, I feel quite confident in Governor Palin's ability to steal the show with an historic performance. Actually I'm giddy like a school girl in anticipation.
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The one positive for the Dems is that in picking Palin, McCain has somewhat conceded that foreign policy experience isn't essential.
You mean he's totally conceded that ANY experience is essential, because in REAL matters, she has less than Obama does.
If the prefix "pro-" means "for" or "in favor of", and "con" is its opposite, and if "progress" means "pushing forward" or "improving"... then what the hell does "Congress" mean?
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I guess he believes ... that he has some right to question her and her husband's life choices. How vulgar and ignorant!
Just to nitpick here - Didn't you do exactly that? Question Obama's and his wife's life choices? There was something in there denigrating them for not giving birthday or Christmas gifts, wasn't there?
How vulgar and ignorant you are!
EC
If the prefix "pro-" means "for" or "in favor of", and "con" is its opposite, and if "progress" means "pushing forward" or "improving"... then what the hell does "Congress" mean?
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Kirkules, don't underestimate Sarah Palin. She's been with her National Guard troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and will get internationally refreshed quite quickly. She'll be as eloquent and informed as anyone else, probably more eloquent and informed than anyone else. Her domestic knowledge and record is impeccable. She's a Governor, actually the most popular Governor in the whole country, and argueably the best. She has been tested for years under innumerable stressfull and complicated situations. She knows how to negotiate and be strong. Harry Truman came from a small town, and he was able to rise to the challenges of the job and times. I would want the guy with the black box walking behind Palin before either of the Dems. if it ever came to that.
Wow! You sound EXACTLY like those anti-Obama ads - the ones hailing him as the new Messiah, calling him the biggest celebrity in the world...
You're lavishing the exact same kind of BS praise on Palin!
Why, she's MORE eloquent and informed than anyone else! She's just the BEST. She's so good there shouldn't even be an election, and we should just crown her Emperor For Life right now, today, this very instant!
It troubles me that she WON'T appear on any of the talking-points shows. Why's she hiding? If she's so eloquent and informed, then at least ONE person on the Republican ticket would be, because Stuttering John McCain sure can't string together a cohesive thought.
EC
If the prefix "pro-" means "for" or "in favor of", and "con" is its opposite, and if "progress" means "pushing forward" or "improving"... then what the hell does "Congress" mean?
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...the Republicans picked a candidate for VP that's more qualified than Obama...
So Palin's out? Who'd they replace her with?
EC
If the prefix "pro-" means "for" or "in favor of", and "con" is its opposite, and if "progress" means "pushing forward" or "improving"... then what the hell does "Congress" mean?
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Palin obviously has the experience with the domestic economy...
"Obviously"? By insisting on emptying her state's meager treasury on government handouts, and then insinuating that any future needs will be met by massive borrowing, or by more massive federal handouts?
That DOES sound like a pretty firm grip on the Republican version of the economy.
I thought you were big on limiting your personal spending to what you could afford? Maybe not when it comes to your views on elected officials, I guess - at least not as long as they're "conservatives".
If the prefix "pro-" means "for" or "in favor of", and "con" is its opposite, and if "progress" means "pushing forward" or "improving"... then what the hell does "Congress" mean?
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Quote:Hitler had a high approval rating too. I'm not trying to say that Palin is Hitler, merely that a high approval rating doesn't mean that you're honest or represent the people who voted you in. (Yes, Hitler was voted in.)
The TRUTH about Sarah Palin is that she's one of the most beloved Governors in the nation, with a very high approval rating.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Nice job Signy. The Hitler reference is always a good one. It's really a shame that Sarah Palin will be the cause of Obama's epic defeat. Don't worry though. Misery loves company, and you'll have plenty of miserable company right here to cry with in November. And in bewteen your crying, you guys can debate all the ways that McCain stole the election. You're in for a rough spell.
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Originally posted by Riverlove:
Sarah Palin really needs nothing from Oprah.
They've all ready gotten all they need from Oprah. Palin was treated very badly by the press, her opponants, and the liberal crazy-talkers yet she managed to not only weather the storm but to throw it back on them.
By refusing to have her on Oprah continues to generate the 'unfairness' sympathy for Palin while undermining her own support for Obama.
Thanks Oprah.
H
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Quote:Nice way to evade the point JS. But your whole argument boils down to We're number one!. That could be transplanted into a crowd shouting Heil Hitler! and not be out-of-place. So, aside from rabid cheerleaderism, do you have any reason to vote for McCain-Palin? 'Cause I'd like to hear it.
Nice job Signy. The Hitler reference is always a good one. It's really a shame that Sarah Palin will be the cause of Obama's epic defeat. Don't worry though. Misery loves company, and you'll have plenty of miserable company right here to cry with in November. And in bewteen your crying, you guys can debate all the ways that McCain stole the election. You're in for a rough spell.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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You're not being honest and you know it. You don't want to hear my reasons for supporting her. You just wanna bash Palin. And you and yours are doing exactly that. Every time she's trashed, she only grows in popularity. So keep up the bashing.
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No, I want to hear your reasons.
Maybe you're religious, you want to see more religion in the WH and you like that in her.
Maybe you're voting your 2nd amendment rights.
Maybe you really like McCain better because you feel he's an honest-to-God hero.
Maybe you just really really disagree with Obama.
I dunno.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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So.....?
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So.....?
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So? I don't need to have any more of my words attacked. I've stated many reasons on other threads, same ones you're on. I'll have a sane, rational discussion with anyone here, any time. But first I need to see some sane rationality from the people I choose to engage directly with. We've never had that sort of thing going on, right...so what is really the point?
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