The Last Thing We Need is a Great Leader
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Friday, September 19, 2025 16:46
VIEWED: 6995
PAGE 7 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Their genius was in realizing these are two sides of the same coin."
Now you're putting words in THEIR mouths !
Not so much....
Quote:
Originally posted by George Washington:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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The U.S. Constitution is the work of several men, directly and indirectly. The three most notable persons whose work influenced the Constitution but who were not involved in its writing are Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine. The group of men involved in the writing of the Constitution are generally referred to as the "framers".
delegates to the Constitutional Convention ( * indicates delegates who did not sign the Constitution)
Connecticut
Ellsworth (Elsworth), Oliver*
Johnson, William S.
Sherman, Roger
Delaware
Bassett (Basset), Richard
Bedford, Gunning, Jr.
Broom, Jacob
Dickinson, John
Read, George
Georgia
Baldwin, Abraham
Few, William
Houstoun, William*
Pierce, William L.*
Maryland
Carroll, Daniel
Jenifer, Daniel of St. Thomas
Martin, Luther*
McHenry, James
Mercer, John F.*
Massachusetts
Gerry, Elbridge*
Gorham, Nathaniel
King, Rufus
Strong, Caleb*
New Hampshire
Gilman, Nicholas
Langdon, John
New Jersey
Brearly (Brearley), David
Dayton, Jonathan
Houston, William C.*
Livingston, William
Paterson (Patterson), William
New York
Hamilton, Alexander
Lansing, John, Jr.*
Yates, Robert *
North Carolina
Blount, William
Davie, William R.*
Martin, Alexander *
Spaight, Richard D.
Williamson, Hugh
Pennsylvania
Clymer, George
Fitzsimons, Thomas
Franklin, Benjamin
Ingersoll, Jared
Mifflin, Thomas
Morris, Gouverneur
Morris, Robert
Wilson, James
South Carolina
Butler, Pierce
Pinckney, Charles
Pinckney, Charles Cotesworth
Rutledge, John
Rhode Island
Rhode Island did not send any delegates to the Constitutional Convention.
Virginia
Blair, John
Madison, James
Mason, George *
McClurg, James*
Randolph, Edmund J.*
Washington, George
Wythe, George*
So, do you believe that Washington spoke for them all ? Or did the Constitution speak for them instead ?
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uh.... yup.
?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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NOW you're putting words in the mouths of all the delegates !
That's a really, really bad habit you've got.
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?
?
?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
My ENTIRE premise is that government is an effective means by which a community of people solve collective problems. The hitch - it only works if the people agree to abide by community decisions.
Do you have a problem with that ? If you do, then you have a problem with democracy.
Minor quibble here, but I have a bit of a problem with that. You seem to be presuming that if the majority wants it, it must automatically be the right thing to do, and in the best interest of all parties. That doesn't take into account the rights of the minority, or the legality and constitutionality of the thing you're doing.
"Majority rule" isn't the hallmark of our Constitution. After all, the mob doesn't need the law on its side; it's the mob and the majority, after all - it's already got might on its side. And being the mob in power, if they DO want the law on their side, it seems pretty easy to rewrite the laws in their favor. The law needs to be on the side of the minority, to ensure that THEIR rights are also protected and addressed while trying to accommodate the majority. Checks and balances are about trying to keep the little guy from getting steamrollered by the mob. This is where the Supreme Court is supposed to come in, to ensure that what's being done in the name of the mob is actually a legal thing to do in the first place.
Sadly, it's getting harder and harder to get that protection of our basic rights.
Mike
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Hello,
Rue, the exchange between you and Sergeant might have become a bit fuzzy. I think we lost the rails on this train two or three posts ago.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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There's rails?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Where am I coming from.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34613
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Rue
Quote:
"Their genius was in realizing these are two sides of the same coin."
Now you're putting words in THEIR mouths !
Nope, it's all right there in the Federalist/Anti-Federalist Papers and related speeches, all of the participants made their thoughts, feelings and intentions quite abundantly clear and precise as possible.
I don't think all of them were completely honest, mind you (
You, Hamilton!) but their own words on the issues are a matter of easily accessible public record, perhaps you should go read them, yes ?Because if you're going to argue this subject without a clear knowledge of the subject matter, there's hardly any point to discussing it, is there ?
Oh, and regarding Afghanistan, this little bit landed in my inbox this morning.
AP IMPACT: Afghans fed up with government, US
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080905/ap_on_re_as/angry_afghans;_ylt=Al2
b.eslMwMxuSe9ijkUdl1vaA8F
Sounds a lot to me like their problem is too MUCH Government, unwanted being the least damning thing held against em, and ineffective being another.
They weren't fond of the Taliban either, but unless you lived right next to em you could pretty much ignore the bastards, which isn't an option for the nitpickery style of US Puppet Governments.
They're eventually gonna boil over and kick us right the hell out of there, and I don't blame em a bit for it.
"We meddle, people don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome."
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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