South Ossetia: Defense against ethnic cleansing, or invasion? (Turns out, Georgia fired missiles first. it was self defense)
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, August 23, 2026 15:28
VIEWED: 18520
PAGE 18 of 28
Quote:Said the person who can't tell the difference between 12 years of 17 Chapter 7 UN Resolutions and an outright invasion of a neighboring state.
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:No, it's not my opinion. In this instance it's a statement of fact. Of course portraying fact as opinion serves you well in bolstering your opinion, but it's still an opinion held by those who do not know, or do not understand the facts.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s your opinion, and it’s not held by everyone,
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Said the person that thinks that using the organisation that told you not to do something to legitimise that which you did is a cogent argument...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Said the person who can't tell the difference between 12 years of 17 Chapter 7 UN Resolutions and an outright invasion of a neighboring state.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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"BEHAVE YOURSELVES!!!!"
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FINN (Takes deep breath) we've been through this before with Rapo. I quoted the last UN Resolution on Iraq at length, and linked the entire text. There was NO authorization of use of force in that last Resolution... yanno, the one where the UN was deciding what to do with Iraq and all of the previous resolutions.
And why???
The plain fact of the matter is that Saddam was about to be found in compliance with UN resolutions. And why was that?
Because he was.
He had, in fact destroyed his WMD (except the relatively few canisters, shells, and drums that got lost) and did not carry forward WMD research. Everything that Colin Powell said to the UN was fabrication, exaggeration, or paranoia, and fortunately they have better bullshit meters than you. I'm not saying the UN is always right, but in this instance they were.
I listened closely to the US member of the UNMOVIC team Scott Ritter who was convinced that Saddam did NOT have WMD as well as the concerns of David Kay who was (even before his assignment to the post-invasion USA inspection team) a cautionary voice. There was no evidence whatsoever of ongoing WMD production or storage.
Now,you may argue "What if sanctions had been lifted, and Saddam could go forward with his plans" (however you might imagine them) "with oil revenue behind him?" I can see how that would be a concern. But there are about a dozen ways to deal with that issue and Saddam was so far behind at that point on the WMD curve that it is a specious reason on which to base an invasion... especially an invasion that was billed as being a matter SO URGENT that they couldn't even let UNMOVIC finish its job.
Ultimately, that was what led me to realize the purpose of the invasion WAS to PREVENT UNMOVIC from issuing a report. Spring was thought the best time to invade, the window was closing, UNMOVIC was going to conclude some time in fall (at the latest). Cheney could have waited until the following spring if an invasion was deemed necessary, especially since the inspections were turning up nothing upon nothing and the matter was looking less and less urgent, not more and more so. But that was the LAST thing the Admin wanted.. Invasion was a foregone conclusion and their excuse was about to be taken away. That's why they had to jump the gun and kick out the inspection team by invading.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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You know that the Russian excuse is the same one that Hitler used to invade Poland back in the day.
They were "German" people living in Poland and so he was just protecting them from genocide and discrimination. Answer for the world "well if they are your people and your protecting them then it is OK to invade"
It is all just a little bit of history repeating
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Quote:I was paying close attention back then, and I fully remember the rush to invade before all the evidence was in.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Spring was thought the best time to invade, the window was closing, UNMOVIC was going to conclude some time in fall (at the latest). Cheney could have waited until the following spring if an invasion was deemed necessary, especially since the inspections were turning up nothing upon nothing and the matter was looking less and less urgent, not more and more so.
isall
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I finally found a picture of, er, the President that I like....
BadChrisisall
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Quote:Except the Poles did not attack Germans living in Poland with tanks and missiles, so your analogy falls short.
You know that the Russian excuse is the same one that Hitler used to invade Poland back in the day. They were "German" people living in Poland and so he was just protecting them from genocide and discrimination.
If S Ossetia gains it's independence then that will be a good thing, in my book.
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:I think Finn is stuck here, because if he says that the REAL concern was the prospect of Saddam acquiring WMD in the future, he will have just admitted that the Administration lied.
Spring was thought the best time to invade, the window was closing, UNMOVIC was going to conclude some time in fall (at the latest). Cheney could have waited until the following spring if an invasion was deemed necessary, especially since the inspections were turning up nothing upon nothing and the matter was looking less and less urgent, not more and more so.- Signy
I was paying close attention back then, and I fully remember the rush to invade before all the evidence was in.- Chrisisall
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Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Meh, that's tame compared to Chavez.
I swear, he's about as pimpdaddy as you can get without the gold tooth, seriously.
-F
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