Real World Event Discussions

Right Wing Hero Shoots Up Liberal Church

POSTED BY: NewOldBrownCoat
UPDATED: Thursday, August 14, 2008 03:08
VIEWED: 9766
PAGE 6 of 13

KWICKO

Saturday, August 2, 2008 2:19 PM

Quote:

I will also point out,(not to leave Newoldenbrowncoat out in the cold on this one, because I think he's voicing frustration and a genuine concern that maybe this guy is a hero to some on the right), that at no point have I said that the man would be looked at as a hero by right-wingers.

I said that there's a media tactic that both demonizes people on the left and talks about violence towards us as patriotic, and I said that that has to have a real world effect.

And, more than anything, that is the point of the original post, I think.

You have people like Reagan going on-air and saying that "these people should be shot" and "I'll pay for the bullets" - and that kind of sentiment, if not those exact words, is echoed again and again not only by the little people like us, but by the major players in the right wing of the media.

So, when some delusional dickhead takes them at their word and actually DOES it, it seems to me that they are left with two choices:

1) Come out and publicly say that they never meant it, and were only trying to get ratings, or

2) Endorse this goon's actions and call him a hero to their cause.

It's been argued that demonizing a group doesn't condone violence against them, but the use of propaganda has repeatedly shown that if you want to attack a group, the very first thing you do is demonize them, dehumanize them. It makes it so much easier to kill them if you don't consider them real humans in the first place.

So there are lots of good points posted here, on all sides of the issue. Anthony and Finn make good points especially, in that there is definitely more than enough hate to go around. Maybe we could all dial it back a bit - and I'm one of the guilty ones, I know. A

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

RUE

Saturday, August 2, 2008 3:36 PM

AnthonyT

"So how many right wing radio hosts and bloggers are there, Rue? How did you find them all? How did you find time to listen and read them all? Having done all that, how did you remember what they all said or typed? Did you catalogue their hate speech on a spreadsheet?
I am expressing doubt that you could know what every right wing radio person or blogger says or does."

I presume if they aren't reaching a mass market then they're not exactly meeting the definition of a pundit. Wouldn't you agree ? So some ranter on a 5 watt CB isn't going to be a pundit.

I scan pretty much all the major outlets reaching all the major markets. It doesn't take an Einstein to check the titles and opening sentences of, say, TownHall and find the screaming hate there. I will try and remember next time I get it (conveniently, in my inbox) to post it for you. Or to scan and post Drudge.

And BTW, I find your question to be sophistry. You admit you have no knowledge of the pundits, and then claim that anyone else's knowledge is false, based on your -- oh, never mind ...

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Saturday, August 2, 2008 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

You have people like Reagan going on-air and saying that "these people should be shot" and "I'll pay for the bullets" - and that kind of sentiment, if not those exact words, is echoed again and again not only by the little people like us, but by the major players in the right wing of the media.

So, when some delusional dickhead takes them at their word and actually DOES it, it seems to me that they are left with two choices:

1) Come out and publicly say that they never meant it, and were only trying to get ratings, or

2) Endorse this goon's actions and call him a hero to their cause.

Thank you, actually. You got into my head and made the exact inference I was trying to pass on. In fact, I don't think it was even clear in my own mind.
But you did miss the # 3 action-- Ignore the whole thing and hope nobody notices before it goes away. The original writer suggests that that is the current action of Fox News, Hannity, Combs, etc. I think I left that quote in.

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ANTHONYT

Saturday, August 2, 2008 4:30 PM

Hello,

Rue, I guess since I am not an expert, I will have to accept your statement that you have surveyed every pundit on the right wing and found each of them, without exception, to spew hate speech - as factual.

I suppose I will have to accept as factual any information I am given where I am not an expert, as to question such information would be sophistry.

I am an expert in very few areas, so there will be almost no criticism I can offer on virtually any topic. I will have to accept what I'm told by people who proclaim themselves to be experts, even when their assertions seem outrageous.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

RUE

Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:07 PM

AnthonyT

When you posted you obviously didn't get the severe slip of logic in your thinking. And, when someone like me has worked very hard over may years to get an extensive knowledge base, your ignorant sarcasm is plain stupid and rude.

If you want to debate information, let's go at it. I'll match mine up against yours any day. Just remember, all I have to do is post ONE hate-filled thing each from a list of pundits (ie real ones in mass-markets) to prove my point. While you have to show me that a majority never posted anything in that category.

But if you want to have a snit-fit, you're on your own.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:29 PM

Right-wing extremism has certainly been the major threat over most of the last 20 years. You can’t take this as vindication of Left-wing extremism. That completely ignores the 60s, 70s and the early 80s, when domestic terrorism stemming from Left-wing Extremism was a far worse threat then Right-wing Extremism of the last 20 years. Left-wing extremism does exist today. It exists in the Media. And it is rising in power, and is coming close to trumping Right Wing efforts if it hasn’t already. And it will. And when it does it will be a far more destabilizing influence then the current or previous bout of Right Wing extremism. And these are the conclusion of the FBI as reported in a 2001 DOE document: “LEFT-WING EXTREMISM: The Current Threat.”

Your desire to focus solely on Right-Wing extremism as if it exists in a vacuum, does not promote healing of any kind, rather it intensifies the problem. As I said the better way to look at it is to realize that extremism exist on all sides and is pretty much independent of the philosophy. Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RUE

Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:36 PM

"It exists in the Media."

Bullshit. If it did the coverage of Obama wouldn't be 80% negative.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"It exists in the Media."

Bullshit. If it did the coverage of Obama wouldn't be 80% negative.

Wow, you really have to be committed to the lie to say something like this, considering the flowery praise that has been thrown at Obama over the last several months, even considering that he associates himself with characters who would ruin any other mans political career.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

the better way to look at it is to realize that extremism exist on all sides and is pretty much independent of the philosophy. Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.

Well put, Finn.
Very Bruce Lee.

Waving Chrisisall

RIGHTEOUS9

Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:51 PM

unless your philosophy incorporates non-violence as a central tennet, of course.

Then the philosophy itself has to be corrupted first.

I was kind of joking when I said this was healing, but you should note that in that post I did say that power is a corrupting force, and that I accepted the possibility of left-wing extremism once the left-wing had a good majority of the power. I don't know when that condition has ever existed in this country, but perhaps it has.