Right Wing Hero Shoots Up Liberal Church
POSTED BY: NewOldBrownCoat
UPDATED: Thursday, August 14, 2008 03:08
VIEWED: 9766
PAGE 5 of 13
"I think there are probably more of them than we can count on all our fingers and toes. I can't believe all of them say such hateful things. I'm doubtful that even most of them do, but I don't see how we can know."
I get TownHall and listen to hate -- err - I mean talk -- radio, read Drudge and other sites. Not only is the majority saying hateful things, they are saying and printing and blogging hateful things without exception.
Let me repeat that - every last one of them.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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AnthonyT has expressed pretty much what I would say. I see this a lot. Some lunatic who associates himself with a particular point of view does something horrendous and becomes a convenient excuse by people who don’t agree with that point of view to start labeling that point of view negatively. The truth is that haters, murderers and extremists exist everywhere and because a hater associates himself with the Left, like say Kaczynski or Manson, doesn’t mean the Left is full of haters or even that Left-wing points of view are wrong. In fact, the media today is full of Left-wing opinions that are hateful and manipulative, much like those hateful and manipulative opinions who seek to relate the Right to this murderer, but this doesn‘t make Left-wing opinions wrong, anymore then Right-wing opinions are made wrong because someone who reads Coulter shoots up a church. I’m sure Rigteous9 and NewOldBrowncoat would take offense at being compared to Charles Manson, simply because they hold a Liberal perspective, but evidently they have no problem making those comparisons of the Right. It’s really time we learned to separate our philosophical and political arguments from acts of random violence, they are quite independent of one another. It’s a childish stunt, not a reasoned argument.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Hello,
"Let me repeat that - every last one of them."
So how many right wing radio hosts and bloggers are there, Rue? How did you find them all? How did you find time to listen and read them all? Having done all that, how did you remember what they all said or typed? Did you catalogue their hate speech on a spreadsheet?
I am expressing doubt that you could know what every right wing radio person or blogger says or does.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:Extremism tends to run in cycles in the United States oscillating between Left and Right-wing extremism. Currently, Right-wing Extremism is the major threat, I think. This, however, will change soon if it hasn't already. From about the 1960s to the 1980s, Left-wing Extremism was the principle danger, and we are beginning to see extremist groups form, like MoveOn.org, which typically herald the onset of Left-wing Extremism. This is the part that the Lefties on the board won’t like - Left-wing Extremism in the US is more dangerous then Right-Wing extremism. The reason? Left-wing extremists tend to be better educated and better able to organize. Right-wing extremists tend to be poorly educated and frequently individuals. For instance, periods of Left-wing extremism tend to see more active and larger terrorist groups and more acts of terrorism then periods of Right-wing extremism. Left-wing Extremism definitely exist and the Left-wing political environment is as susceptible to it as the Right, but the Left is traditionally much more effective at it.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I doubt it. Remember, the lefties are - in general terms here; don't wanna go labeling anybody - pretty anti-gun. They might protest, or write a really stinging letter to the editor, but they're not likely to shoot up anything that doesn't come in a syringe. :)
Of course, in pointing that out, I also point out part of Anthony's point, too, about why painting a group with such broad brushstrokes can be a danger. How so? Because I'm pretty darned left-leaning in my ideology AND I really enjoy shooting guns. Yup, as the Fun-Lovin' Criminals would say, "Stick 'em up, punk, I'm the gun-lovin' liberal."
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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AnthonyT,
just one point, because I don't really have too many grievances with most of what you said.
This goes to my original point,
how many "eco-terrorists" do you know of have a talk show on cable news or am radio. Sure those people are out there, but they are far more fringe than O'reilley and Hannity and Coulter and SAvage...etc.
I appreciate your attempt at being neutral, and independant of "sides", but it's a little frustrating to me that you keep coming back to "I"m pretty sure"
You don't have examples that match mine. YOu believe there are probably some out there. I think that your point would be more powerful if you found 10 or 12 examples of liberal voices(specifically those who are given a microphone and are paid to spew their hatred) saying te same kinds of things.
If you find that, you've got me check and mated. I'll be convinced that there's no difference.
And lets make one more thing clear... we're actually talking about the most prominant voices in conservative punditry. These are the very most mainstream people they've got. Limbaugh still has one of the very biggest audiences out there. O'reilley has a huge following on Fox. These aren't fringe voices from the right, they are the flagship voices.
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Finn, I appreciate that you see right-wing extremism as the bigger threat today. I don't know off hand that the left was ever a bigger threat in this country, it has usually been the underdog...but power corrupts, and if the power gets consolidated on the left side of the dial, taht's where all the pricks are going to gravitate, so I might quibble, but I accept that this could oscilate.
.............
Since you said it, that the right is the bigger threat today, I take it then, that you have evidence, a pattern of behavior you've taken into account that has helped to inform your opinion, and that being said, that pointing out such things in itself is not juvenile but could be important to getting at a greater understanding of our current climate.
I will also point out,(not to leave Newoldenbrowncoat out in the cold on this one, because I think he's voicing frustration and a genuine concern that maybe this guy is a hero to some on the right), that at no point have I said that the man would be looked at as a hero by right-wingers.
I said that there's a media tactic that both demonizes people on the left and talks about violence towards us as patriotic, and I said that that has to have a real world effect.
So just to go back to your own point about right-wing extremism being the major threat today, it would seem that we are in total agreement, and this kind of bipartisanship feels good.
I think it's rather healing to have this conversation, don't you?
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Hello,
Not being a collector of political hate speech, I tried 'liberal hate speech' in google.
I don't know if this stuff is true, or who some of these people are, or what context they were under. I think some of them are comedians. Of course, I suspect a lot of the hate speech coming from right-wing pundits is intended to be funny.
Please let me know if any of these are good examples of liberal hate speech, equivelant to the right wing hate speech you have cited.
From http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:d0gVjolRpwoJ:patterico.com/2007/0
3/05/leftist-hate-speech/+liberal+hate+speech&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1
--Anthony
Brace yourself for the leftist hate:
National Public Radio legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg:
f there is retributive justice [Sen. Jesse Helms] will get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it.
USA Today syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux, on Clarence Thomas:
I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease.
Washington Post syndicated columnist Richard Cohen:
For hypocrisy, for sheer gall, [Newt] Gingrich should be hanged.
Comedian and (former) talk show host Craig Kilborn [Caption under footage of George W. Bush]:
Snipers Wanted
Members of the St. Petersburg Democratic Club:
And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq “We have our good days and our bad days.” We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say “This is one of our bad days” and pull the trigger.
Actor Alec Baldwin on Conan O’Brien:
f we were in other countries, we would all right now, all of us together, all of us together would go down to Washington and we would stone Henry Hyde to death! We would stone him to death! [crowd cheers] Wait! Shut up! Shut up! No shut up! I’m not finished. We would stone Henry Hyde to death and we would go to their homes and we’d kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families.
Comedian Chris Rock:
If President Clinton would pardon me I would whip Starr’s ass right now. I will get a crew from Brooklyn and we will stomp him like, like, we’re Savion Glover. We’ll stomp him like it’s bringing da noise.
Director Spike Lee on Charlton Heston:
Shoot him with a .44 caliber Bulldog.
James Carville on Ken Starr:
He’s one more mistake away from not having any kneecaps.
Syndicated columnist Alexander Cockburn:
There is a sound case to be made for dropping a tactical nuclear weapon on the Cuban section of Miami. The move would be applauded heartily by most Americans. Alas, Operation Good Riddance would require the sort of mature political courage sadly lacking in Washington, D.C., these days.
Columnist, author, media pundit, journalist, and newspaper editor Dan Savage:
My plan? Get close enough to Bauer to give him the flu, which, if I am successful, will lay him flat just before the New Hampshire primary. I’ll go to Bauer’s campaign office and cough on everything. Phones and pens. Staplers and staffers. I even hatch a plan to infect the candidate himself; I’ll keep a pen in my mouth until Bauer drops by his offices to rally the troops. And when he does, I’ll approach him and ask for his autograph, handing him the pen from my flu-virus-incubating mouth.
That column also appeared on Salon.com. It was a little more than hate “speech” — the guy actually did try to give Gary Bauer the flu.
It’s racism you want?
Democrat Senator Robert Byrd:
There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I’m going to use that word.
Democrat presidential candidate Jesse Jackson on Jews:
Hymies
and on New York City:
Hymietown
During his presidential campaign, Jesse Jackson was linked with (and refused to denounce) Louis Farrakhan, who has at times been linked with the Congressional Black Caucus, which also supported his Million Man March. Farrakhan is a man of the left who has been a harsh critic of President Bush.
Here’s Farrakhan on Jews:
Many of the Jews who owned the homes, the apartm
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I recently attended sunday service with a family member and the sermon covered by the pastor was regarding the congregation's TV viewing habits. He went on chastising the messages coming from the various TV shows (MTV and other programs he felt had questionable moral values).
A friend, who lives in Florida, had said that her pastor also warned her church of the dangers of watching mainstream TV and listening to questionable radio programs. She won't watch movies that even so much as have swear words. Imagine that, not even something as non-threatening as PG-13. More and more I've heard of people being told about staying away from mainstream media, but replacing them with programs that advocate "christian values."
Couple that with the hatemongers who advocate "ridding the country" of anyone who may be different. Different in their way of thinking, worshipping and generally living their lives. Where have I heard that before? Wasn't there a country in Europe that thought that way and persecuted a certain group of people because they worshipped and behaved differently?
Hmmmm! Wasn't that the country that had a king who ran roughshod over their basic rules and principles to fit his needs? Haven't millions died defending the basic freedoms that we've enjoyed (until recently) and continue to die for? We have a political party that has wooed and used the christian movement to further their own agenda. That has succeeded in duping the honest folk within that movement that they had a friend in the highest office in the land. That same friend who has ran roughshod over the basic principles and beliefs of this great country, has failed miserably in providing the religious utopia they so desparately wanted.
The so-called "hero" - fueled by the hatemongers and political magicians of the airwaves and poltical pulpits - committed a detestable act upon innocent Americans whose only crime was that they were pursuing their American dream; the freedom to worship. Period.
Nothing happens in a vacuum people. All these things that have happened over the last 10 or so years are all interrelated. Are basic freedoms have been shredded in the name of war on terrorism. Our leader tells us he does not need to answer to us because he the president. As the Church Lady would say, "How convenient!" I mention all of this because, as another poster stated, we are not thinking for ourselves. We're letting others make up our mind about things we know are wrong or should know are wrong. We listen to the "barker" at the carnival knowing full well you don't get something for nothing. We've been lied to, Hoodwinked! Think for yourselves people!
Don't believe the hype! As for me, I aim to misbehave.
The political process only works as well as it's people - Anonymous
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Thank you,
I wish you would first make sure the ones you're posting are accurate...
second I'd appreciate context...like say waht Alec Baldwyn was saying,it could be hateful in its suggestion, or it could have been making a point of American politics versus other world politics...,definitely with violent overtones, but either way it goes to my third point,
third I'd point out that most of those people on this list whos names I know are actors and entertainers, not pundits who are expected to have a firm grasp of the facts, and are not very likely to be charicaturing their own comments. I can't even be sure how the Crhis rock comment came out...was it stand up or a skit? either way was he playing a mad violent charicature or was he speaking for himself? That's the problem with putting all these in here like this.
by the way, there is a woeful short supply of links to anything regarding Kilborn and that caption. It was a long time ago and all, but I'm surprised that I couldn't find one link that wasn't heresay on the issue. Not saying it's not true, but a better researcher would have to find it.
Fourth, I'd point out that Carvill isn't a liberal, we don't want him. He is a democrat, granted.
Byrd is a racist, old hold-out from the good old dems when they used to be the conservatives. He may vote with some liberal ideas but I've never thought of him as a liberal. I'd be intersted to see that his voting record proved me wrong. I'll have to look at that.
Talking about giving somebody the flu doesn't really sound that serious to me...reprehensible if actually carried out on the other hand, even though apples and oranges when compared to killing, or lynching somebody, and frankly sounds more like farce than an actual attempt.
Howard Dean, definitely a liberal -I would like to know context and whether he was speaking about office holding republicans in teh specific. I wouldn't have too much of a hard time with taht statement, except for the fact taht half the dems should be on the same list.
Farakhan is hardly a mainstream voice for liberals. He's quite fringe, probably (though I'm not certain) even within black communities. His links to politicians etc. are not what we are discussing. If you recall the man gets no mainstream play unless it is to attack him and his hate-speech.
The St. Petersburg Democratic Club? Seriously? who the fuck are they? - I looked it up and they aint much of anything.
I'm not at all sure how Pete Stark's comments fit into anything...that's a floor argument with a specific person. I wouldn't be any more likely to include Cheney's "go fuck yourself."
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You've got me on Moulitsas. I'll give you this one all the way. Daily Kos is pretty big in liberal circles, and I believe it is his blog. On the other hand, it's not radio and its not TV, and his isn't the persistent voice of the Daily Kos..
- and by the way, after he said this he lost advertisers and Kerry abandoned any connections to his site. It had repurcussions that he has since recovered from. Still, I can't knock his liberal credentials, (aside of my own opinion that such statements are not liberal), and therefore he definitely applies.
the british pundit Charlie Brooker is another good example, though I don't know him, it seems like he has a big audience. Asking where the assassin of the 21st century is when we need him is pretty stupid, and hateful.
Cockburn's statement is reprehensible. I don't know who the hell he is though. He's a columnist and he has contributed to such magazines as the Nation. A fairly minor player in that regard.
Same with the other colemnists, just because those sources just aren't as far reaching as television and radio, which I believe all my examples came from. These people don't have the same platform to spew this kind of anger, and harm-wishing.
Don't know Tony Hendra either, Huffington post is big on the other hand.
The problem with touching on columnists and bloggers though is that I haven
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Hello,
"second I'd appreciate context..."
Context is something we've not had at all in this discussion.
Do I really need to become an expert on political hate speech to discuss this, or is it sufficient to say hate speech can be found wherever there are people?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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