If you like Bush & what he's done to this world, you are evil.
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 19:38
VIEWED: 30693
PAGE 24 of 32
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually that turns out to not be the case, even the US intelligence community was of the opinion that it was an emphatic maybe
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
Well, at least AU is consistent - consistently WRONG, that is...
I know there were SOME in the US intel community who were just sure that Saddam had 'em, but there was hardly a consensus, even within the American intel apparatus.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually that turns out to not be the case, even the US intelligence community was of the opinion that it was an emphatic maybe
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
Well, at least AU is consistent - consistently WRONG, that is...
I know there were SOME in the US intel community who were just sure that Saddam had 'em, but there was hardly a consensus, even within the American intel apparatus.
Mike
Oh, YOU'RE sure, are you ? Sounds more like your OPINION rather than fact. The agencies release reports which speak to the cumulative reporting by all their sources. 'Individuals' in the intel community aren't scale tippers. They look at all the intel, across the board.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Rap, you never answered my question: How izzit that we agree with you that we should tackle jihadism head-on?
That must be a tough one for you.
PS, for someone who is 99% bloviating opinion you can hardly take the tactic of dismissing "opinion". You have yet to bring facts to the stable PROVING your point that WMD exists... or proving almost any other point of yours for that matter. (BTW, how's that economy going? On fire, right?)
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rap, you never answered my question: How izzit that we agree with you that we should tackle jihadism head-on?
That must be a tough one for you.
PS, for someone who is 99% bloviating opinion you can hardly take the tactic of dismissing "opinion". You have yet to bring facts to the stable PROVING your point that WMD exists... or proving almost any other point of yours for that matter. (BTW, how's that economy going? On fire, right?)
First of all, you keep asking how the economy is doing , every 6 - 12 months, you're bound to get a different answer, every time. Yet you keep asking . Why ? ( Still no recession, if you must know, and MY personal economy has never been better. )
Second, I'm unaware that you ARE for tackling the jihadism problem head on. If you honestly are, then that's good news to hear. Though I remain skeptical.
Do you honestly expect me to rehash and reproduce the reams of intel / reports/ information on such things as the WMD issue EVERY GOD DAMN TIME YOU ASK FOR IT ? We've only had this discussion for 5+ years and counting, and I'm sorry if you some how missed the specifics over that time.
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
What next... PROVE we really landed on the moon?
PROVE Kennedy was shot by only one assassin ? PROVE Joanie loved Chachi ? WTF is your deal ? Get over yourself and stop 'bloviating' all the time.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:There is, of course the argument that the final report swings one way or t'other on political ground, the fact is there was much more debate and uncertainty than your statement suggests, and even the final US intelligent report was far closer to maybe than what was told to the public at large. For instance the insistence that Iraq was a present and immediate threat did not come from US Intelligence, in fact I think the NIE report said the exact opposite.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, YOU'RE sure, are you ? Sounds more like your OPINION rather than fact. The agencies release reports which speak to the cumulative reporting by all their sources. 'Individuals' in the intel community aren't scale tippers. They look at all the intel, across the board.
Prior to 2002 the Intelligence Assessments were very much along the lines of Maybe, or not sure. It wasn't until late 2002 (the October NIE report) that things became more definite, about the time Iraq was beginning to fall under the cross-hairs.
Contrasted to UN findings which were more like no and probably not, I think it's safe to say that by no stretch of the imagination that 'every intelligence service worth it's salt agreed'. Even most of the stuff said to come from the British never came British Military Intelligence.
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Quote:The invasion of Iraq was not sponsored by the UN.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Been there, done that. I even got the T-shirt and mug.
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
What I read was that intel was fluid but was about to be stablized. That KEY elements of the Bush "case for war" had been thoroughly disproved: the Niger evidence was a known forgery (and a clumsy one at that), the aluminum tubes did NOT have the right specs to be nuclear fuel centrifuge tubes (and no matter how much Bush and his cronies plug their ears and hum real loud you CANNOT make a silk purse out of a sow's ear), that the UN itself was willing to wait for Saddam's compliance to be determined, that Curveball was a known liar, and that everything Colin Powell showed the UN... from the vial of powder to the "mobile facilites" was either a flat-out lie (Saddam never made weaponized anthrax spores) or total speculation.
All YOU ever come up with is musty old scare stories. Stories that had been repeated like a bad game of "gossip". Stories that either had no basis in fact, or were about to be tested by real-time intel.
That's the difference between me and you. As a scientist, I look for facts. As an ideaologue, you look for opinion.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:See? It's right here...It's all about YOU. YOU fear for your way of life ending so YOU see jihadists around every border, ready to take it from you, and YOU see Bush as your defender, and YOU see peeps that disagree as Amerika-haters.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
( Still no recession, if you must know, and MY personal economy has never been better. )
You really need to adjust you contrast dude, all you have now is blacks & whites.
isall
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Quote:
'Individuals' in the intel community aren't scale tippers.
Okay, so what was it that George Tenet said again? He IS an individual, right? And it's been your claim all along that HE said it was a "slam dunk" and that's what Bush based his invasion on.
Seems SOME individuals in the intel community ARE scale-tippers... but only so long as they tip it the way you want it tipped.
Also, you maintain that YOUR personal economy has never been better, so that proves to you that Bush is the second coming and that everything he's done has been right. Flip that around a bit, and you can see why someone whose personal economy has never been worse could blame Bush for all that is wrong. You seem unwilling or unable to accept that.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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having a political veiw isnt evil even if that veiw may seem wrong to somone else.i personally dont like ethier side democrats or republicans as both seem to favour the will of big buisness over the working man.and the iraq war has nothing to do with freedom and a lot to do with much wanted arms sale and oil well reserves.the iraqi people should have been allowed to fight for their own freedom rather than us imposeing our will onto them with our type of macdonalds democracy.but to support this isnt evil its just miguided by people like our old freinds foxnews who continue to blur the line between opinion and facts.but you must always uphold peoples rights to air their opinions no matter how abhorent they are to you
im a noob get over it
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