Financing Serenity 2 (or more Firefly)
POSTED BY: reesgolf
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 04:41
VIEWED: 8815
PAGE 4 of 4
@Out2TheBlack:
Ad Hominem is the name of logical fallacy that you used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
How about you address the substance of what I said instead of being a hypocrite. And no, I'm not performing an Ad Hominem attack myself, I'm just pointing out what you've done.
EDIT: You might want to check the dates on those posts. You also might want to check that whole, reading INTO things instead of actually reading them. You're doing the former NOT the latter.
And I didn't say I was " GETTING OFF our boat". If you would have read what I wrote, you would know that I said that shit like this makes me feel like it. There is a difference you know. You also missed this quote from me (that you actually quoted yourself, how's that for literacy):
"So, my posting here will be sporadic at best for the foreseeable future"
"""
Now , would you please leave the thread to people with constructive and creative ideas to exchange ?
"""
What? You mean like posting a list of projects that could use some help from people instead of just talking and doing nothing? Like I did. You mean pointing out the flaws with ideas so that they can be fixed? Or if they can't, prevent people from wasting time on an idea that won't work? Like I did.
I'll also add that people here seem to be missing important "hidden" costs of doing something like this. Sure, Serenity cost ~37 mil to make. But, what about advertising? What about distribution? etc etc etc. Even if something like this was to be done, it would require a SIGNIFICANT up front investment from the studio(s) in question. And given the... low profits from the last movie, that's unlikely to happen (and that's being polite).
Why can't people drop this (it's been brought up countless times) and focus on things that would actually benefit and help this community. Because, to be honest, this community is getting its ass kicked by others.
A good example of this is the Wing Commander community. The last official game came out in 1998 (with the exception of the tiny xbox arcade mini game in 2007) and they're still going strong. In fact, several fan made games have been released in that time with a new one just a couple months ago (continually updated). There news site publishes new stuff on a daily basis yet News Of The 'Verse didn't last a year. And what Firefly/Serenity games?
Sorry, but without a solid dose of reality, this community is doomed to be pie in the sky until it rots. Which is actually happening as we speak. In fact, your reaction to my criticism is indicative of this. God forbid that someone would have a "descenting" point of view, eh? Can't have anyone pointing out that an idea is inherently flawed. That would interrupt people talking. Which is actually the point. People talk and talk and talk, and effectively zero people actually do anything. And those exceedingly rare people who actually do something don't have any support or help.
Gee I wonder why nothing gets done. And people, though they come into the community regularly, leave. In fact, they're leaving at a rate that out paces people coming in. So, this whole, look how many there are of us because people come in all the time is pretty much nonsense.
Something needs to happen, and happen soon. As above, I call it a dose of reality. But, with people like you, and there are many of you around, it's unlikely this will happen. You're far too resistant to such things. Even violently so (as you're last two replies to me show).
So, go ahead. Talk. Convince yourselves that this is a healthy community. That nothing needs to change and no-one needs to do anything. And then, in a few years, when every thing is exactly the same as it is now, remember what I said. That for things to improve, people need to do something. And then talk about it.
----
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"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
People talk and talk and talk, and effectively zero people actually do anything. And those exceedingly rare people who actually do something don't have any support or help. Gee I wonder why nothing gets done.
Actually, I work very hard here in my hometown with huge support from other local Browncoats (about 100) to help promote Firefly/Serenity and related activities. I think we do a pretty good job of keeping it alive. And I'm pretty sure there are communities like mine all over the world.
I think raising over $150,000 for charity is nothing to sneeze at. That takes quite a monumental effort from a good number of people -- active people.
Quote:
And people, though they come into the community regularly, leave.
I think what will definitely make them leave is negativity and personal attacks. It's bad for morale. And morale is just as important as action.
Nathan Fillion asks folks who visit his MySpace to drop by and leave a little positivity. I think there's a lot to that statement.
So I encourage everyone to continue brainstorming. Nothing bad can come from a good idea.
** If anyone cares to snipe or flame me for that one, I respectfully request you use PM so nobody else here has to read it and I can ignore it in private. Thanks! **
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:
Actually, I work very hard here in my hometown with huge support from other local Browncoats (about 100) to help promote Firefly/Serenity and related activities. I think we do a pretty good job of keeping it alive. And I'm pretty sure there are communities like mine all over the world.
I think raising over $150,000 for charity is nothing to sneeze at. That takes quite a monumental effort from a good number of people -- active people.
Promoting what there already is and holding events to celebrate that, isn't creating new things. Which is what I was talking about. I thought that my suggested projects and what I've said made that clear.
You see, what you're doing possibly gets new people involved. That is fine except that when that is all that is done, it does not promote a healthy community. A healthy community might do that, but does many other things as well.
Though there are certainly people in this world that can watch the series/movie over and over and over... That doesn't describe the typical person. Most will leave after they get bored with the little content that exists. Which in this ADD world we live in isn't long.
Also, though raising money for charity is all well and good, it still only fits in the "awareness" category. See above.
Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:Quote:
And people, though they come into the community regularly, leave.
I think what will definitely make them leave is negativity and personal attacks. It's bad for morale. And morale is just as important as action.
Nathan Fillion asks folks who visit his MySpace to drop by and leave a little positivity. I think there's a lot to that statement.
So I encourage everyone to continue brainstorming. Nothing bad can come from a good idea.
** If anyone cares to snipe or flame me for that one, I respectfully request you use PM so nobody else here has to read it and I can ignore it in private. Thanks! **
And moral is moot without action. Therein lies the problem, eh. You can be as positive as you want, have as high moral as you want, but without action, still nothing gets done.
Brainstorming is definitely good. Except when the exact same ideas come up again and again and... And when people here get told that, they continue with flawed ideas wasting time and energy. And when they get told that, they attack because someone isn't a "real" browncoat.
Yes, it isn't fun being told that "your" idea isn't good/is flawed/etc. But, that's the nature of life. Not every idea is a good one. And not every idea is tractable. Some things are just plain beyond reach and people need to realise that. After all, just look at how much work Joss, et al had to put in to get the movie made. And there we were supporting those efforts. And even then, it barely got made. We were very very lucky. And now we have zero people working on it "on the inside." Doing that Math... doesn't exactly seem likely (to be polite) that we'll get another one.
To be explicit, the thing about brainstorming: different ideas come up. Here all we have is people continuing to try to go with an idea that not only has been show to be inherently flawed in this very thread, but every time its come up in the past. Go ahead, look through the archives, it's all there. Variations on the same idea is not brainstorming.
This community needs to get active. It needs to start creating new content. Whether that's continuing with stories in the 'Verse, expanding it or filling in holes, it needs to be done. It also needs to be done in various ways. From games, to books, to whatever. But, it's also obvious that no-one is going to do it for us. WE need to do it. WE need to create our own content. WE need to support these projects not only with just saying "go for it", but by actually helping! If this is done then we won't have to "recruit", it'll draw people in. But, without it, there's just no staying powe
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I must be living in a different Browncoat community than you, Sigma.
Around here, there are two Browncoats who have just finished a new Firefly board game prototype. They are working now on licensing and wide release.
Another member is working on permanent Firefly LARP grounds that will be available for regular use.
I just don't see the inactivity that you speak of.
Nobody here watches their episodes over and over and pines away for a new series. We create new stories and songs. We constantly look for new ways to promote and celebrate our 'verse. Granted none of us has written an online game -- we just don't have that in our talent pool.
You spoke of writing new stories. Personally I don't look forward to a continuation of Serenifly without the input of Mr. Whedon. That's not a product that interests me. But I have the utmost respect for fanfic writers who help keep the 'verse alive. And I'm looking forward to my first look at Mosquito at our charity screening next week.
I guess I'm just confused about your view of the Browncoat community. I see enthusiasm, lively conversation, creative ideas (though sometimes repeated), and action. Check around with the other Browncoats in your local community. I'm sure you'll find it there too.
I don't think you'll ever be able to convince me that we're not doing enough. I'm actually quite proud of how much we do and what a fine community we've become. Every fandom naturally has some attrition. But once the "sort-ofs" fall away, the dedicated remain.
I'm sticking around for a while. And I'm happy to hear great ideas (over and over again if necessary).
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I think a healthy community is one that works towards a good and common goal, and has good morale and morals. I believe that everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. In a well functioning organization there is a free flow of ideas and information and people utilize their strengths to further the goals of the community. I wouldn't want Kaylee up on the hillside with the sniper's rifle nor Jayne fixing the engine, I wouldn't want Mal doing the doctoring nor Simon piloting. Some people are great idea people, some are great doers, some folks are great motivators and/or cheerleaders. Some folks have a blend of these attributes. People can contribute ideas, time, money, contacts, skills, etc. - everyone has a role that they can play and a special way that they can help further our goals. Everyone also has different commitments and obligations in their lives which impact how capable and/or willing they are to lend their talents to the cause.
I'm sure that many folks thought that the Wright Brothers were idiots for trying to make a flying machine. People had been thinking about and trying to fly for perhaps thousands of years prior. People had come up with many ideas and tried many things in pursuit of the ability to travel through the air. And then one day folks with a passion for that goal once again undertook the silly notion of flying. Why did they succeed? Probably because they dared to dream, dared to attempt the "impossible", they probably had some unique ideas, they probably were lucky in making their attempts when the time was finally right (availability of new materials, construction methods, other knowledge, etc.). My point here is of course that I doubt that every possible idea for financing a new series or movie has been thought of and vetted and that maybe all we need is for the right idea to be floating around when the right person(s) see it and create a watershed moment.
Not everyone is going to have the exact same goals in mind. I am very interested in exploring fanfic and all those kinds of things that are out there now. I might be interested in finding a way to support those endeavors in the future. But for me, the main goal is to see more Firefly or Serenity with the real writers and actors. I do not want animated stories, I don't want to be relegated to reading comic books or fanfic (no matter how good) - I want live action video entertainment starring the people that I have come to admire and appreciate deeply - the original cast. Just because I would prefer to expend most of my resources (mental, physical, chronological, and financial) toward the "real deal" doesn't mean that I think less of anyone that thinks that path is too difficult and unlikely to be worthy or that has a greater passion for other things like podcasts, fanfic, board games, video games, and whatnot. Nor does that mean that I would not support those that have a different vision. There are many ways to improve, expand, and feed this community. Being fairly new, I'm not sure how well things are going, don't know how they compare to years past or what the root causes of malcontent are. I know my interests and available time are subject to a great deal of change and ebb and flow. I'm sure many of the folks that had been rabid fans before have burnt out and gone on to other things, with luck just for a while.
One of the reasons that I think it would be cool to come of with a win/win concept such as I tried to outline above, is that it would not require a leap of faith nor deprive folks of their money should the plan not work out. My hopes would be that if folks get something in return and/or can get there investment back after a reasonable amount of time if things don't pan out the more people would support the idea. Could it work, yes. Will it work, I have no idea (being new here, not being omniscient, and often being too much of a dreamer, and perhaps prone bits of OCD, ADD, and many other human frailties). I'm not a lawyer or a business guru, so I don't know if a company or partner
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My my don't we have our differences.
I'd donate, not thousands, but hundreds. No, I could not donate time as I just don't have it to give.
Remember (and I apologize if someone suggested this and I missed it in my skimming, this thread is becoming VERY long) the Enterprise incident when the fans raised enough to do another season and it still fell through. These things need the strings pulled from above, those in the right places have to be on board first, just seems to be the way it works. Then the cast have to be available as well. The whole thing needs the cosmos to be aligned in ways most cannot imagine.
I think all the sites would need to be coordinated in some way, and this would be a good idea even if it didn't involve said potential BDMII. It's a place to start. Get some organized potential then consider what to do with it.
I'd still donate $.
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VOTE FOR OUR FAVORITE SHIP!!
http://blogs.amctv.com/scifi-scanner/2008/05/coolest-starship-tourname
nt.php
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
out2theblack wrote:
Monday, June 09, 2008 19:29Quote:
--Joss Whedon , speaking of his spare-time project , Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog,
Remember everyone. Joss is boss. Joss knows how to reach us...
Well , we'd be happy to hear from him...He should find a way to bop in here and give us a Ni Howdy...This is one of the most-fun places in all of cyberspace...Certain events of late , notwithstanding...
Nobody minds Joss being the Boss...But he knows how much he needs us , just the same as we need more Firefly love...
We'll support his endeavors , Dollhouse in particular , and Dr. Horrible if it turns out to be good fun...
Even if Dr. Horrible isn't loads of fun , I'd support it if it would bring more Firefly...
Thanks to all for their constructive comments in this thread , and for their innovative ideas about how to get more Firefly/Serenity...
We'll talk some more...Seen more good stuff on this subject in this thread than in any that have gone before !
Remember , it's ATTITUDE that determines our ALTITUDE...LOVE keeps her in the air !
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vexem:
I think a healthy community is one that works towards a good and common goal, and has good morale and morals. I believe that everyone is different, with different strengths and weaknesses. In a well functioning organization there is a free flow of ideas and information and people utilize their strengths to further the goals of the community. I wouldn't want Kaylee up on the hillside with the sniper's rifle nor Jayne fixing the engine, I wouldn't want Mal doing the doctoring nor Simon piloting. Some people are great idea people, some are great doers, some folks are great motivators and/or cheerleaders. Some folks have a blend of these attributes. People can contribute ideas, time, money, contacts, skills, etc. - everyone has a role that they can play and a special way that they can help further our goals. Everyone also has different commitments and obligations in their lives which impact how capable and/or willing they are to lend their talents to the cause.
I'm sure that many folks thought that the Wright Brothers were idiots for trying to make a flying machine. People had been thinking about and trying to fly for perhaps thousands of years prior. People had come up with many ideas and tried many things in pursuit of the ability to travel through the air. And then one day folks with a passion for that goal once again undertook the silly notion of flying. Why did they succeed? Probably because they dared to dream, dared to attempt the "impossible", they probably had some unique ideas, they probably were lucky in making their attempts when the time was finally right (availability of new materials, construction methods, other knowledge, etc.). My point here is of course that I doubt that every possible idea for financing a new series or movie has been thought of and vetted and that maybe all we need is for the right idea to be floating around when the right person(s) see it and create a watershed moment.
Very good , well-said !
On the same note , regarding sayers of 'nay' , history is replete with examples of folk who shot their mouths off in deciding something to be 'impossible' in some respect , having been made foolish in short order...
Here's one :
" Lee DeForest has said in many newspapers and over his signature that it would be possible to transmit the human voice across the Atlantic before many years . Based on these absurd statements , the misguided public...has been persuaded to purchase stock in his company..."
--a U.S. District Attorney , prosecuting inventor DeForest for selling stock "fraudulently" through the mail for his Radio Telephone Company , 1913...
Here's another :
" The concept is interesting and well-formed , but in order to earn better than a ' C ' , the idea must be feasible ..."
--Mid-1960's , a Yale University professor , in response to a paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service...The paper's author , Fred Smith , went on to found the Federal Express corporation...
FedEx has been 'in the air' a long while now...
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Interesting stuff here and in the "NEW PLAN" thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=33986. I thought I'd respond here to try and keep what seems to me like related info together.
Quote:
Originally posted by OLDDUCK:
No more lamenting and hand wringing over the loss of firefly. The Plan I propose is for fans to raise $ 100 mil by selliing shares in a for profit corporation in 100 share units at $1 per share - there could even be a "day player" drawimg based on one entry for every 100 shares purchased. The shares and money would be used for "founders shares", to buy the rights and residuals, recreate sets, put writers, production staff, and cast under contract, and to underwrite production costs. Lots of details to be resolved but all is possible. The fact that fans put up the $ to make this happen would create a huge buzz and an incredible amount of free publicty. Lets do the impossible and do it TOGETHER! OLDDUCK
Quote:
Originally posted by artcat81:
If you do go this route, make sure all of your t's are crossed na dI's dotted, i hate to burst your bubble but it was tried,
http://realityme.net/2006/01/17/browncoats-defeatedagain/
In the end a lot of browncoats felt scammed, you simply cannot start taking the money until you have the legal groundwork under you.
That being said, best wishes and your enthusiasm is lovely to see.
In my opinion the best way to fund a sequel or continuation in teh verse is to continue to buy the dvds share them with friends, buy the lunchbozes, ornaments, comics, books etc.
Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous1:
Remember we don't want to do anything to hurt Joss.
A Hollywood insider explained to the last person who started raising money that it could scare Hollywood away from Joss if fans started raising money. All the money was returned by the way.
Let's see how Joss decides to make his investment back from Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog. If he puts a donate button up...well...we know what to do with that...don't we.
I do not think the best or most efficient route would be to try buying the rights up - an aggressive plan indeed that has Joss working for us. Isn't it really rare for studios to sell the rights to anything, because if they sell them and then the product does good, they look like fools?
Isn't it a common (or at least not unheard of) practice for directors to provide a portion of the financing for a movie and share in the risks and rewards? My leading theory now after reading the comments and links from here and the UNI-HD Forum is that maybe Joss would be interested in starting a company for the purpose of expanding the 'verse and we could invest in or finance that company. Are there any folks out there with good business knowledge? If Joss was 100% stockholder, couldn't the company raise capital by selling bonds or maybe a non-voting stock or something? And if so, couldn't those instraments (bonds or stocks) be issued under the provisions that they after x years they are refundable if a project is not under way, etc (along the lines of some of the protections that I listed previously?
I originally liked the idea of the studio trying to do something, but Joss as the primary creative force now seems a more logical choice to me. I agree that we need to make sure that anything that goes forward is of the highest integrity and transparency, and has little if any chance of hurting our asperations. It would also be good to try and structure things to keep expenses to an absolute minimum - to "make it (the money) go further".
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