Financing Serenity 2 (or more Firefly)

POSTED BY: reesgolf
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 04:41
VIEWED: 8815
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SIGMANUNKI

Monday, June 9, 2008 8:30 PM

Sorry to be a naysayer, but it most certainly is unreasonable to attempt to tackle this. First and foremost, there is profit sharing and other such legal "details" when it comes to people investing. But, even if people waive those rights, they have to be signed away. Which means a massive amount of paper work. Which means paying many people to keep track of it, etc.

Among many other things, there is the, "what if it fails" thing. How are people going to reclaim there donated funds? Who's going to keep track of that? Who's liable when things go wrong?

Basically, the system that must be involved to keep track of these and other necessary and basic bookkeeping tasks is enormous. And that's not counting donations of props, etc.

It's just not doable.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

ROGUESCHOLAR

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:17 AM

SigmaNunki,

All of your objections are quite valid. The only point on which I disagree is whether or not it is doable. Are there enough people willing to do the necessary work? Very possibly not. That does not make the task undoable; it simply indicates that there is not sufficient interest.

Not that there is anything wrong about not being willing to put forth that kind of time and energy; most people are not, and it does not make them bad people. The reality of the situation is that very few people would be capable of or willing to handle the enormous responsibility, the vast seas of paperwork, etc. Those exceptional few who truly are willing to do it may be too few in number to get the job done. Even if they collected the money, there is no guarantee that the movie would be made... The objections that can be made are practically endless, and they are worth bringing up; they discourage people who are only vaguely interested in the project.

It may be impractical, unreasonable, foolish, etc. to want to even attempt a largely fan-funded film. It is not, however, impossible.

OUT2THEBLACK

Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:29 AM

" I'm going to put it on the Internet first. Whether or not I can monetize it that way ... I'd like to be able to. I'd like to be able to make the money back, pay the crew, because Dr. Horrible, apart from being hilarious and fun, is also a product of the strike. I want to show that there's a way to make things yourself, but then I also want to show that there's a way to make that viable for people. So even if I don't accomplish the second part, I want to do the first part. So we'll put it on the Internet, hopefully with a sponsor of some kind. We'll work that out. "

--Joss Whedon , speaking of his spare-time project , Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog,
quoted in Sci-Fi magazine...

Here's a quote that sounds like it's from a Browncoat :

Quote:

It may be impractical, unreasonable, foolish, etc. to want to even attempt a largely fan-funded film. It is not, however, impossible.

Here's one , that's 'not so much' :

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Sorry to be a naysayer, but it most certainly is unreasonable to attempt to tackle this...

...It's just not doable.

SMAUG

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:53 PM

Well..

I think this would be fairly easy to accomplish, but will never happen.

If universal would make some type of OFFICAL announement and set up a website to take people's "donations" the word would spread like wildfire, but only if it was the real deal and offical straight from Universal.

If universal would say as soon as we get $50-$60 million in donations.. we will produce Serenity II. They could say that the minimum donation is $30. In that case 2 million browncoats would need to donate $30. But you are able to donate more if you wish. And for each $30 you donate.. you get a ticket to go see the movie in theaters. Now remember.. ticket prices for movies are ALREADY bewteen $10-$15 right now. So in some areas you would only be paying twice the "normal" movie ticket price to get the movie you WANT to see.

So for each person who donates MORE than the $30.. we need less than 2 million browncoats.

Universal could hold the charge on your credit card until all the money is collected, and won't charge it unless the full amount is raised.

Then there is no risk for Universal. The entire production is paid for.. AND they have to spend ZERO on marketing, because if it happened.. word of this would be EVERYWHERE. Not to mention the growing hoard of browncoats contintuing to spread the word. So then universal would make a profit on anyone else who sees the movie and buys the dvd (including those two million browncoats who donated the money upfront you KNOW are also going to buy a dvd). So right there at maybe $10 in profit per DVD.. Universal would get up to $20 million in pure profit JUST from the people who already finaced the movie.

There would be no profit sharing our any other types of scemes... it simply comes down to is there at least 2 million browncoats would would pay $30 to finance and see Serenity II?

I have to believe there are.. but still.. it won't happen, but we can still dream

ROGUESCHOLAR

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:51 PM

An elegant solution, in many ways, Smaug. Personally, I would still prefer television episodes or webisodes to more feature films (the same method could easily be used), but I will certainly take the feature films. The system you propose is certainly viable, and Universal already has appropriate personnel, etc. to get the job done.

I like the giving away tickets idea as well; Of course, those vouchers represent money that must be paid to the theatres when people use them, so the cost of the film probably just went up by 10-20 million. As a nice bonus, listing the donors in the credits would also be a very cool gesture.

As an alternative, the same procedure could be used, without involving a studio at all. Without studio support, getting theatres to screen the film would likely be more difficult. On the other hand, this kind of event would generate so much publicity that I suspect many theatres would show it anyway.

A major bonus would be that the film should generate quite a bit of profit; hopefully enough to fund more Serenity projects. In other words, once the initial investment is made, if the movie is sufficiently successful (and we would have to make good and certain that it was), very little, if any, further investment should be needed to keep things rolling.

Of course, we will still run into the same problems we always seem to have: communicating with everyone (and yes, there are tons of people who are always out of the loop until after stuff has happened) and getting them all moving in one direction.

TINFOIL

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:06 PM

I also think people are looking too big. I don't think a second theatre movie is possible, but maybe an animated direct to DVD using the actors as voice talent would be. Of course it wouldn't be as good, but it would be cheaper than working with huge sets (since most of Firefly got dismantled as I remember) and special effects.

Just a thought.

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:42 PM

@RogueScholar:

You propose something that is intractable. I pointed out that it is intractable. By definition it is impossible.

If you want to limit it to a "fan funded film" then things change. Why? Because, a "fan funded film" isn't necessarily something that would be seen in the theatre, but rather could be a film along the lines of "To Know a Jedi" (great fan flick btw). There is after all, "Done the Impossible" that has seen completion. But, that was just a documentary. Something that would actually be an attempt at FF/S would be much more difficult. Just look at the problems that "Into the Black" has had. They've been at it for some time and still aren't near completion.

@Out2TheBlack:

Sophistry! You point to people with the money and contacts and etc etc etc to get things done. Professionals in the industry doing something in there free time. How exactly does that extend to us fans again? Because, as I see it, everyone involved in FF/S is busy with other projects and the community here isn't willing to do anything to get anything done. There just isn't any staying power.

Sorry to say, but that's just fact. People here (every where actually) absolutely LOVE talking about doing stuff, but don't follow through when it comes to actually doing it. Just look at the recent failures, News Of The 'Verse and The Big Damn Zine. They didn't fail for any other reason but people stopped participating in the projects. I've attempted to start a few game projects but there was exactly zero people willing to participate in the first one (programming wise) and the ONE person that volunteered for the second one said that he'd do something, but then never did... after ~6 months.

I also take exception to your comment that I'm not a Browncoat. I may not be a delusional Browncoat going along with pie in the sky ideas, but a Browncoat I am. I also highly doubt that you'd make such comments should you know what I've been doing in my free time over the pass couple weeks.

I'll also mention that this sort of zealotry makes the non-fanatical fans like myself want to re-work our projects for use for something else that interests us (FF/S isn't the only thing out there). It's also one of the major reasons why there is only a handful of us "veterans" around any more. There just too much of this "If you were a real Browncoat then you'd do/say/etc" bullshit. But, to flip that on you, what projects are you contributing to? What are you doing for the community? What make you such a great Browncoat that you're able to question me?

@SMAUG:

The free ticket idea doesn't make any sense. That would be an additional expense and as such wouldn't exactly be giving money to the project. In fact, there would be additional problems in buying that ticket for the person. Are they limiting it to a particular theatre? Since the Browncoat community is international and different theatre chains aren't going to exist every where, how's that going to work? How is the ticket going to make its way to the people who donated in the first place? etc etc etc

All of this and more has an associated cost to keep track of. Which would be a cost for Universal which would have an associated risk. It's hard not to call a long shot a risk when it has a cost no matter what. Not to mention that what you've said doesn't address many of the issues that I brought up previously.

I know it isn't what people here want to do, but looking at the cons rather than the pros of any idea is what is needed when coming up with such large scale plans. Such things need to be solid, and not looking at the problems with any given plan and fixing those problems turns it into a Swiss cheese of an idea.

If anyone really wants to do something that would be of any actual benefit, donate to "Into the Black" and if you're an actor, for the love of god, try to replace the people they already got; the Captain is the only one that has any talent. They also need help with effects, etc.

There'

OUT2THEBLACK

Friday, June 13, 2008 1:41 AM

WoW !

This is interesting...From the Chronicles of SigmaNunki , found here :
http://www.fireflyfans.net/showblog.asp?b=3409

" Everybody's so angry

Or at least condescending, or mean or ... to eachother. (yes the title is a play on a thread title from a little while back)

Someone doesn't like the movie and points out some flaws. Burn the heretic!!! Someone doesn't see your point of view on something. Flame them, they just must be stupid!

And of course none of this is could be your fault. It can't be that someone has a valid point that you disagree with. It couldn't be that you just didn't explain it properly. Or it couldn't be that they just misunderstood something and it certainly isn't your responsibility to make sure people are actually getting what you mean or it couldn't be that you didn't understand them, because you're never wrong, right?

No it can't be you. No, not at all.

(And no, I'm not saying I'm completely innocent here.)

No, I'm not necessarily talking about whoever is reading this... if anyone reads this.

To be clear, what I've seen over the past months is people starting to get more and more aggressive on the FF/Serenity part of the forums. In fact, it's getting to the point where it is starting to approach what goes on in the RWD threads. Or at least what went on in RWD the last time I participated.

I used to take a break from RWD by going to the other forums and calmly discuss FF with other people discussing FF. Sure, there were disagreements. But, nothing like what is going on now.

Another thing I'm seeing (and this is far more telling of the situation), is the "veteran" posters are starting to post, less and less and less. In fact, it has become the exception that I see a familiar handle on the threads that I click on. This mass exodus cannot be coincidence.

So, here's what I'm going to do (actually I've already been doing it) and I hope others will do so as well.

I'm just not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to discuss with people that use ridiculous hyperbole, condescending comments, etc.

The only thing that they'll get from me after they do such a thing, is telling them that I'm not going to discuss with them until they can "keep a civil tongue in there head." And that's it for discussing with them in that thread.

Because, quite frankly, I'm getting sick of fighting; it drains me. And I got enough crap to deal with in RL, never mind what I am now having to start to put up with in these forums.

So, I'm just not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to speak with those that try to beat people down (even if not intended).

I'm only going to talk to happy, nice people. The people that have supported me and countless others through tough times. The people that carry you when you can't crawl anymore (or at least keep you company when you are crawling or waiting for someone to carry you if they ain't strong enough to carry you )

The real Browncoats.

Because, if we can't get along with eachother, we've already lost. "

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

(Where I come from , we've got verbiage to describe your ilk , Mr. Nunki...

'Gorramned Hypocrites' , or maybe , in your particular case , it's due to sickness , then , you'd be a 'narcissistic sociopath'.
One of the principal characteristics of your kind is that you talk ' @ ' folk , as you did in your Browncoat-Brother Love-Letter to Smaug , RogueScholar , and myself . Now , would you please leave the thread to people with constructive and creative ideas to exchange ? And don't let the airlock door slam on you when you're on the way out...)
-' Out2theBlack '

OUT2THEBLACK

Friday, June 13, 2008 3:34 AM

Here's another 'classic' from the SigmaMunki Chronicles :

http://www.fireflyfans.net/showblog.asp?b=6883

Farewell

" Like many before me, I've gotten sick of the status quo around here. It's not like this just popped up as this feeling started creeping up slowly somewhat before the movie was released (i.e. when the "fanboys" started showing up). Now, it's just gotten to the point where I really feel that "fanboys" and/or there basic mentality (if even diluted) have become too prevalent for me to stay around. Well, that among many other things.

So, my posting here will be sporadic at best for the foreseeable future. Perhaps if the "fanboys" leave... don't know.

At any rate, farewell and best of luck. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey , SickyMunki , didn't you say you was GETTING OFF our boat ? 'Cause much to your horror , the "fanboys" just keep showing up...

REAVERS!!! SCARY MONSTERS...

Or , did you just mean that you were GETTING OFF running down other folk ?

That 'authority figure /Messiah' complex of yours is waaay old...

While you're getting down off that high-horse of yours , might wanna take off the hat , too...It makes you look like an idiot...Oh , wait , you ARE an idiot ?

Never mind...Forget what I said about the hat...

Time to WAKE UP , mei-mei...

VEXEM

Friday, June 13, 2008 7:44 AM

I have no idea if it would help get a sequel made nor how feasible it all would be but here is my 1 cent. I have only been around this forum a few days and am fairly new to Firefly/Serenity obsession - a fan from the tv days, but growing more obsessed all the time. I need to research and read prior threads on this topic, but hopefully at least a few of my comments below are new. If anyone could link to other threads on this topic that would be shiny. Maybe someday my thoughts will be worth 2 cents.

I like the monetary pre-support concept. I have been thinking the same thing for a few weeks now. I think it would work best if the studio administered it. I think that a system that allowed different levels of participation and a fail safe option would be the most enticing and beneficial.

My idea is to prepay for certain purchases and fringe benefits. I would say make it somewhat al-a-cart, allowing people to do what appeals to them. I would make A1) mandatory if possible.

A1) $25 pre-order of the DVD. This could be administered by a third party like Amazon for the studio or the studio could do it themselves. Hopefully there would not be an industry practice or legal obligation that would preclude this. This would be for a 2 DVD edition as my next idea will require an extra disc to keep video compression to a minimum (and therefore video quality up) and still have room for some extras. This would be a good option for mild supporters or Browncoats a little short on coin. I like the DVD pre-order idea over the pre-paid movie ticket idea because it does not take the straight to DVD option off the table. Should net them perhaps $18 per person.

A2) $35 get your name in the credits of the DVD (perhaps a special 2-disc edition). Perhaps have levels in the credits, such as $1,000 for Platinum level; $500 for Gold; $200 for Silver; and $35 for Copper (or some more creative 'verse-centric category name for each level, i.e. Captain/ 1st Mate/ Pilot / Mercenary or Firefly/ Mule/ ATV/ Hiking Boots). This should only cost them a $1-$2 per person, and they get the rest.

A3) Pre-pay for an item that can only be gotten by participating in this program - a "supporter only" item. Maybe a $40-$50 item. This should net them about a third to half the price.

A4) Figure out what props they should have available after shooting that they would normally be inclined to dispose of and auction them off before they make the movie. This could be a tricky proposition, but who knows. They should definitely auction off as much as possible afterwards if they are not sure if it will be a trilogy.

A5) Allow people to donate money and receive a percent of the proceeds - or perhaps even transfer the rights to a new company in which the studio is majority owner and allow folks to buy stock in the company and receive potential risk adjusted reward that way.

A6) Allow people to purchase the rights to be an extra or play a bit part. The purchaser pays all travel and other associated expenses.

A7+) Other folks can add some options or re-raise ones that have been suggested before, in other threads. I'll need to try and find some of the old discussions now that I've found this forum.

The money should be held in trust (or whatever) and should earn interest (if that would not pose a record keeping or tax admin nightmare). People should be allowed to receive a full refund or to continue to support the effort after two years, and then again each year after that until the sequel gets made or the studio and/or Joss says "it ain't never gonna happen". Each person should be given several options as to what happens to the money if the sequel does not get made.

B1) Returned with interest.
B2) Donated to charity (Equality Now?) along with their interest.
B3) Apply the funds plus interest toward Firefly/Serenity merchandise - perhaps including a special "supporter only" item.

People should perhaps be allowed to choose which forms and/or formats they support and if the project goes forward in another manner they get a ref

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