Civil Disobediance.

POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Friday, October 24, 2025 19:32
VIEWED: 5372
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FREMDFIRMA

Monday, May 26, 2008 8:26 AM

Good for them, I say - it's all well and good to have some assessment, but not at the expense of the whole curriculum and purpose.

Bronx 8th-graders boycott practice exam but teacher may get ax.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2008/05/21/ 2008-05-21_bronx_8thgraders_boycott_practice_exam_b-1.html
(spaced link)

"They don't think we have brains of our own, like we're robots. We students wanted to make this statement."
-Johnny Cruz, Age 15.

Oh out of the mouths of babes...
Think they're not *aware* that we treat them as subhuman?
Better think again.

But Mister Avellas REAL sin against the establishment, and the reason they're gonna run him out of town on a rail is something else again, and he stands condemned from his own mouth.
"I teach them critical thinking."

Bloody Fool, that's the LAST thing our so-called 'educational' system wants.

And let's not forget the irony of a Social Studies teacher, who's students use a time honored method of social protest that is supposed to be honored in this country, then getting the axe for it - and showing them how things REALLY work.

As I recall, a certain school in Maryland played that game once over the dress code, and it ended really badly for them, didn't it now ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

SIGNYM

Monday, May 26, 2008 4:01 PM

The article is short on facts. The student protest is based on the fact that they feel that they're being used as guinea pigs for a private company's experimental tests and face an excessive testing burden compared (one presumes) to richer schools. Their complaint has several parts:
1) They face an 'excessive" test burden.
2) It's being done by a private company.
3) Testing takes away from "valuable instruction time"

In addition, Frem has his own agenda
4) Teaching should be done by Uncle Frem, not by the gummint.
5) All standardized testing is bad, and
6) The teacher who is the putative instigator of the boycott shouldn't be fired.

I have one of my own:
7) what are the consequences of standardized testing?
-------------

1) It's unfair. I have no knowledge one way or another whether this particular school is a "proving ground" for new or revised tests. If the students have information that supports their claim the article didn't mention it. It's possibly true: perhaps the principal or school board made a quid pro quo deal with the testing firm for free instructional materials (or money directly in the pocket) in exchange for a test population. It's also possible that the students perceive an unfairness simply because they don't know what's happening in other schools. IF the school is being treated as a guinea pig for new tests, that should stop.
2) It's profit-driven Private testing companies are a fact of life in our hyper-capitalized environment. What students seem to be objecting to is being made to "pay" in order to put money in someone else's pocket. If that's what they're saying, I agree with them. But I'm not sure if it would really make any difference to them if excessive testing were being conducted by an agency as opposed to a private entity. In the end, their direct experience remains the same.
3) It impacts instruction time. Hmm... okay, maybe about 10% of the students really feel this. The other 90% don't like being tested because it makes them feel like dummies. It's not uncommon to present an argument in terms you think the "other side" has to agree with, but from MY experience most students are more than happy to lose "valuable instruction" time to special events, extracurricular activities, pep rallies, and just hanging out. The only thing worse than instructional time is testing time... Sorry, this argument just doesn't seem heartfelt for the vast majority of the students. Also, "test taking" can be a valuable experience.
4) The gummint shouldn't be teaching. I may be misrepresenting Frem's reaction. There are several parts to his reaction to standardized teaching (a) "What" is taught and (b) The "way" it is taught. (a) I agree that the current curriculum sucks. But the reason for standardized curriculum is to prepare everyone equally (one hopes) for participation in the world of work. You don't want to drive on a multi-lane bridge designed by Joe, who learned it from his grandpappy in exchange for lawn mowing because grandpappy once built a creek bridge. The benefit of teaching is that humans can accumulate knowledge over many generations, not re-invent the wheel every generation. I personally think the curriculum sucks. But I would want to change the curriculum not do away with it. (b) The WAY it is taught. Not everyone does well sitting still and listening to a teacher drone on for 40 minutes. That should be changed.
5) All standardized tests are bad At one time, I believe that Frem agreed that advanced studies require standardized testing, but perhaps I mis-remember. My problem with standardized testing per se is how the results are used, not that fact of standardized testing itself.
6) It's all about authority: Let's not forget the irony of a Social Studies teacher, who's students use a time honored method of social protest that is supposed to be honored in this country, then getting the axe for it - and showing them how things REALLY work.
If this is the teacher's handiwork I think he did a crapp

FLETCH2

Monday, May 26, 2008 4:47 PM

Not commenting on the original article but putting forward an observation. People protesting and not seeing the consequences IS the characteristic of spontaneous protest. People generally don't consider the consequences of their actions.

Your union rep is NOT involved in spontaneous action. Even if things go badly and he calls a strike, one would assume the union has funds saved to promote it and a strategy for putting pressure on their management. That is after all their job.

So the idea that some kids going off half cock is in some way indicative of a lack of tradecraft in the area of protesting is wrong, spontaneous protests are messy, I'm not sure you can teach a better technique.

SIGNYM

Monday, May 26, 2008 5:13 PM

Quote:
So the idea that some kids going off half cock is in some way indicative of a lack of tradecraft in the area of protesting is wrong, spontaneous protests are messy, I'm not sure you can teach a better technique.

My comment was to Frem's idea that this shows kids how things "really" work. I guess it does, but not in the way he thinks. He portrays this incident as "the man's" universal response to ALL forms of change and I'm not sure that is the case.

www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2008/05/21/2008-05-21_bronx_8th
graders_boycott_practice_exam_b-1.html
First of all, what the students boycotted was a "practice" exam.

Quote:
More than 160 students in six different classes at Intermediate School 318 in the South Bronx - virtually the entire eighth grade - refused to take last Wednesday's three-hour practice exam for next month's statewide social studies test. Instead, the students handed in blank exams.

Then they submitted signed petitions with a list of grievances to school Principal Maria Lopez and the Department of Education. "We've had a whole bunch of these diagnostic tests all year," Tatiana Nelson, 13, one of the protest leaders, said Tuesday outside the school. "They don't even count toward our grades. The school system's just treating us like test dummies for the companies that make the exams."

So, are they diagnostic tests or practice tests? Hmmm... It seems that the students can't tell the difference. In addition, a lot of school boards (and students) hate the standardized testing because it points up their failure versus other schools. They would like to go back to the the diploma based on school grades because it is less rigorous. But in point of fact, in CA you can't graduate from HS with a diploma unless you pass that standardized state test.

All I can do is point to one of our local hospitals and draw a comparison to some of our local School Boards.

King Drew was a "black hospital for a black community". It was helmed by black administrators. Every time it came close to failing the Joint Commission's inspection or a significant problem was uncovered and a change of leadership was called for, the "black community" championed by County Board member Yvonne Brathwaite Burke would rise up and cry prejudice. And so the hospital limped along, slowly having its teaching and treatment functions amputated until it finally utterly failed the Joint Commission's last chance inspection and was forced to closed its doors. Ethnic pride trumped performance, but eventually the community not only lost it's second-rate "flagship" hospital, it lost ALL medical services.

Which reminded me very much of some local school systems and city governments. Several school systems in our area have been in the news because of rife corruption and mismanagement. One school system had an accounting department that allowed theft by every employee in the system including many employees that didn't exist, for a kickback of course. Another was dominated by a very angry large man, his sister and his cousin who loudly claimed "racism" with every school failure. And most parents were ready to believe that it was racism - not corruption- that was the cause of the school failures because it was a sop to their local pride.

What I'm detecting is just sheer lack of accountability. If parents do not insist on a good education for their children, if they're ready to claim "racism" for every failure on THEIR part, the kids are going to carry that message forward.

I'm willing to say that the amount of testing conducted in that school should be investigated but otherwise... pppphhttt. I think the kids should suck it up and hit the books. If they or their parents think the curriculum or the testing is flawed, take it up with the school board.

-------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

CHRISISALL

Monday, May 26, 2008 5:46 PM

We can't have the sheep attempting to question the shepherd now....

Chrisisallbaaaaaaa

SIGMANUNKI

Monday, May 26, 2008 9:20 PM

I'm all for questioning when questioning is appropriate. But, what's going on today is that the experts are being questions because the people FEEL or THINK that (s)he isn't right. Which is rather the really big problem today. People go with there gut regardless of what the facts say.

These students were fools to do what they did. There are many different ways to make change. But, just "doing something" (i.e. going with THINK and FEEL) without looking into how things actually work is stupidity that should be punished.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

CHRISISALL

Monday, May 26, 2008 9:36 PM

When the 'experts' start thinking for themselves rather than just responding to computer analysis & peeps above them doing anything to justify their position, Sigma, I will share that sentiment.

isall

SIGMANUNKI

Monday, May 26, 2008 11:08 PM

I don't know what world you live in, but I live in one where that already happens. Then again, if you want to contradict the experts, then I'd like to see those degrees and the reasoning why.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FLETCH2

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There are several parts to his reaction to standardized teaching (a) "What" is taught and (b) The "way" it is taught. (a) I agree that the current curriculum sucks. But the reason for standardized curriculum is to prepare everyone equally (one hopes) for participation in the world of work. You don't want to drive on a multi-lane bridge designed by Joe, who learned it from his grandpappy in exchange for lawn mowing because grandpappy once built a creek bridge. The benefit of teaching is that humans can accumulate knowledge over many generations, not re-invent the wheel every generation.

Just had to comment. Chances are that the multilane bridge would not be built in Fremworld anyway. Remember Fremworld doesn't scale well to big city style living --- there would have to be too much shared resources and too much administration for that kind of society to work. In Fremworld no community ever gets big enough to need a multi lane highway bridge anyway and the scale of bridges that can be built with just the community's local resources is likely to be something you sling over a creek.

Remember this is a society where trading fuel oil for ammunition is a big deal and a few of your relatives cooking the doc a good meal pays your medical bills. it doesnt do anything that needs big investment or million dollar resources, for one thing the moment you have projects that large you end up getting the power structures to administer them.

He has a simpler, smaller paradyne in place here.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:16 AM

Quote:
He has a simpler, smaller paradyne in place here.

One in which I think you can kiss off electricity, antibiotics, the internet, and internal combustion engines, all of which required patient accumulation of knowledge and technology over centuries.

But I have to say that Frem is honest about the results of his paradigm, unlike some libertarians who think they're going to reap all the rewards of advanced technology in a horse-and-buggy society.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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