Civil Disobediance.

POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Friday, October 24, 2025 19:32
VIEWED: 5372
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FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:15 AM

Sorry for the late response, some drunk plowed nose to nose into #35 and the freakin heater core blew out and sprayed hot coolant all over my feet, which didn't do jack to the right one as it's plastic, but the left one is kinda burnt, not to mention the hassle and paperwork, no question of fault since the other driver blew about twice the legal limit and was in my lane, but a pain in the ass all the same.

I think you've got it a bit wrong here, and imma get to that in the next post with a full explaination, gimme a bit to write it.

-F

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:06 PM

Ok, now...

It's not that I don't feel the Gov should be teaching, but they really should separate themselves a bit more substantially from the process, public education as it is currently done is pretty terrible, and I have a particular beef with Civics, Social Studies and History classes being so propaganda-laden as to be ineffective at imparting actual knowledge of events.

As for any idea of ME teaching folk, heh, other than History, Small Engine Repair and perhaps Anarchist Philosophy, I am not especially qualified to teach most subjects, but I can most certainly assist someone in improving skills they do know - having the rare ability to "light the fire" and make folk WANT to learn does not in this case translate into knowing how to teach beyond a rare few subjects.

You might be surprised that most of my beefs actually echo yours, in fact.

I too think the curriculum and style sucks, we really need to go more hands-on in many cases and show the real world benefits of being able to USE that knowledge - the home economics class I took way back when was probably one of the best educational setups I've seen, as they had an artificial "store" and checkout line where one could put into practice not only what they had learned in that class but also demonstrate how good math skills could benefit you directly.

There's much to be said for not reinventing the wheel either, but we really should go back to phonics and meaning based reading of the Lippincott model rather than the rote memorisation and see-n-say Caldwell model.

I don't know if those are actually the proper names, but due to the changeover, I got one, and my sister got the other, and it really shows in our reading and language comprehension and abilities, even this many years later.

Other than that, our basic curriculum isn't THAT bad until about grade four-five.

The artificial social structure is pretty awful, and the same authoritarian cycle of squeeze-resistance-squeeze more which has failed in every other damn thing it's applied to simply isn't going to work, these kids have to understand the REASONS for rules and those rules should make SENSE in a real world sort of way - a little communication in that respect would go much, much further than simply putting the boot down and giving orders, a school is not a factory production line, and unless you want to run the place like a kennel or prison, and I have seen that too many times in public schools to deny it happens very often - you MUST have a bridge of communication with your students, and it MUST go both ways.

I don't have anything against standardised testing per-se, it's just that when you're doing little else but prepping for and taking them, you're not actually TEACHING, because you are artificially limiting the subject - and to make schools financially dependant on these things just feeds a bad cycle.

What we oughta do, is have a standard set of more or less "finals" for each grade and leave it at that, make them a requirement of advancement to the next grade, and add a few elements of ceremony and tradition to that so that the child sees their own accomplishment actually acknowledged and respected, which will encourage them and offer emotional support in an environment strangely devoid of it in these days.

As for the incident in question - the school completely failed to take advantage of a truly great educational opportunity here, Fletch mentions unintended consequences, and what better way to teach about them than in an actual environment where they can be effectively shown and demonstrated in a semi-controlled environment ?

As well, there's the hypocrisy issue of teaching the value of nonviolent social protest on the one hand, and then penalizing it severely the instant that students choose to utilize that method, don't think for a moment that particular little "lesson" hasn't made an impact here, which is going to have it's own set of unintended consequences using the force-resistance-more force model.

I think they had a great teaching opportunity here and not on

CITIZEN

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
On the other note, about smaller paradigms, that's a little more complex than your making it, but not so much - the idea of the style I propose is doing away with structures that nearly everybody wants gone with the full understanding of how that would limit your technology and production base, what I have described before as incremental minimalisim.

Example: If we choose to dismantle structure A, then we will lose Technology B and the ability to produce product C.

Do we have perhaps an alternate tech or product we can live with ?
If not, are we all ok with losing B & C ?

If-Yes-Next Structure...

And so on and so forth, to a point where folks are comfortable with, which is far more likely to be somewhere in between here and a horse and buggy culture, it was just a convenient example of the degree it could be taken by folk hell bent on it - but not necessarily where it WOULD go.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

Surely it isn't that simple, given the interconnected nature of modern society.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

HERO

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
...no question of fault since the other driver blew about twice the legal limit and was in my lane, but a pain in the ass all the same.

Sorry to hear that. Hope your local Prosecutor is good.

H

SIGNYM

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:03 PM

Quote:
Sorry for the late response, some drunk plowed nose to nose into #35 and the freakin heater core blew out and sprayed hot coolant all over my feet, which didn't do jack to the right one as it's plastic, but the left one is kinda burnt, not to mention the hassle and paperwork, no question of fault since the other driver blew about twice the legal limit and was in my lane, but a pain in the ass all the same.

Ouch! Damnitall!

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

RUE

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:22 PM

Considering most iron ore is in Minnesota (and requires complex mining to extract), and the closest coal is located in Kentucky (and requires complex mining to extract) - I think with small local societies you can kiss even the simple cast-iron stove goodby, let alone the small engine.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

FLETCH2

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:30 PM

But without the intrastructure to extract and refine oil you have no way of running cars. Therefore you have an almost limitless supply of already extracted scrap iron and aluminium.

RUE

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 7:57 PM

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I wasn't referring to cars - just small engines - which take the place of hand pumps for wells; donkeys, horses and cattle for agriculture; metal rims on wooden wheels so they last longer; wooden tips for plows; etc.
Iron smelting takes place at high temperature. It can be done in small batches with a lot of human effort (bellows) with charcoal, but is most efficiently done with coal. Generally, reliably smelting iron in sufficient quantities requires resources to be gathered for distant places. And that's not even talking about alloys.
And even scrap iron requires smelting to make it useful.
Frem's society envisions large quantities of useful iron. That wouldn't happpen in small isolated communities.

To use SignyM's analogy, it's like trying to use iron in a bronze-age society.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

FLETCH2

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:09 PM

We have massive amounts of mined iron cruising the roads right now, which in Fremworld will not all have fuel to power them. We are already seeing scrap metal prices rise because of the demand and the high costs of extracting new ore. How long before people are tunnelling into garbage dumps to "mine" discarded metal?

Would certainly happen in Fremworld.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
if you want to contradict the experts, then I'd like to see those degrees and the reasoning why.

'The experts' just KNEW Saddam had WMD. The highest paid, best trained, most technologically proficient peeps on the planet, right? Lots of degrees in that bunch....
'The experts' just KNEW margarine was better for you than butter.
'The experts' just KNEW the Earth was flat.

Wherever there is political pressure for a desired 'expert opinion', I can be sure it's full of shit.

Peeps doing pure science, devoid of politics, yeah, I'll take those folks word on it. My mechanic too. There's lots of good experts out there.
But more often than not, they're just well-spoken mouthpieces saying what's been 'approved' by their idiot bosses.

Face it man, our whole society is BUILT on deceit and ass-kissing.

Bad mood Chrisisall

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