Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 21 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
In the coming weeks there will be mass arrests of both the abusing men and the "batterred-wife-syndrome" zombie wives who provided enablement and structure for these vile acts.
I'm just curious how the men are automatically abusing by default. It reeks of how the mothers always win child custody cases, no matter how much off their rocker they are when they're not composing themselves for the trials, unless the father has a hell of a lot of money and gets a great lawyer. Problem is there, if she got half the cash, she can get just as good a lawyer and likely will spend much more on a lawyer because oftentimes she has no idea how to manage money.
If this is a brainwashing cult, aren't the men involved victims of brainwashing tactics since childhood themselves too? I just think it a funny double standard that women have here, especially considering that "psychos" can get out of a murder rap with an insanity plea, and even relatively sane people can get off with a temporary insanity plea.
My step-sister was murdered by her boyfriend in a resturant parking lot in her car before I ever even met her. I've only heard stories about her and how great and caring person she supposedly was. It was a crime of passion and when she decided that she was going to leave him and go away to college, he decided that if she wasn't going to live with him that she wasn't going to live period.
That guy ain't in prison anymore... hasn't been for quite a while, assuming that he didn't go kill another girl. Surely, if the alleged men involved were partaking in something that had been going on for likely generations and had been so far separated from the "real world" that it was perfectly okay for them, some sort of leinancy should be shown and some kind of understanding and forgiveness for their actions.
Just remember people.... IF this all really did in fact happen the way that the knee-jerkers in here said that it did, the boys in this cult, for lack of a better word, who themselves became the men in this cult, were just as indoctrinated into the way of life there that the girls were.
If this really did happen, above all else I think we need to realize this and find some understanding. I don't believe that there was much of any evildoing for the sake of doing evil going on here. This was their way. It might be the wrong way, and it definately is a way that is very foreign to the greater society's way, but it was their way, and I believe that there was love there among many of the people involved. You're going to find truly bad people there, I'm sure, but the same could be said of any gathering of humans, whether it be a spiritual gathering, a social gathering, the workplace, or even someone in your own family and house (murder rates among family members happens to be much higher than one might expect)
It's kinda like the Middle-East, I think. Most of them folk ain't bad. They're just people like you and me trying to make it by in the world and maybe find a moment of happiness and contentment here and there along the way. Only difference is, we were blessed with much more freedom and the ability to have a sense of individuality and to live without the feeling like you're trapped in a cage your entire life when we won the Lotto of Life and woke up one day, thrust from the safety of our womb, crying and shivering and thriving with new life in a doctors hands as he cuts what has been our lifeline for 9 months and hands us to the person who carried us inside of them for 9 months and brought us the miracle that is life.
It just aint' so good for some people after that though. I'm not flat out saying that nothing should have been done to these people, I just think it should be fair and it should have been handled in a way that would project a respectable leadership and deciciveness of what was once and still can be a great symbol and a beacon of freedom in this world, the American Government.
Throwing stones and burning witches isn't the way to go
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6ix- Thank you for that voice of understanding. It should remind us to apply compassion and understanding, because anger and vengeance generally don't change anybody for the better.
That being said, there ARE perpetrators in the system as well as many victims. The perps, by and large, are those who benefit the most. They have lived much of their adult lives rewarded by the system they created, and that life-long lesson (If I behave like "X" I will get "Y") will be hard to change. Ideally, the best way to handle this is not to "break" the community- which leaves a powerful emotional and psychological void- but to place it under those who were non-abusers. As a second choice, children and their (non-abusive) parents could be placed in similar style communities (Amish, Mennonites) so they could continue to live a familiar lifestyle.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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That was a good post, 6ix.
I often think about the issue of abuse and culture. Some cultures definitely are more tolerant of various types of abuse than others. I am Chinese American, so I've had to wrestle a lot with getting a Western education and learning Western standards, and yet being raised at home by abusive Chinese parents. As a kid I had to constantly distinguish between which is simply a cultural difference, and which is true blue abuse.
Not having privacy or your own room is cultural. Having your parents take the money you earn from work or read your private mail is bad parenting, but ultimately culturally tolerated. Getting beaten by electric cords is abuse. Being told one is worthless is abuse. Abuse is like obscenity. It is subjective to a point; but past that point, it's just obvious. You know abuse (or obscenity) when you see it. Physical beatings (beyond the pat on the butt), emotional denigration, and sex with powerless and dependent minors are just obviously abuse, culture not withstanding.
There is no doubt in my mind that many people in this community committed flagrant child abuse. I don't think anyone on this list disputes that. It is HOW the abuse problem should be solved that is debated. I pretty much agree with Frem on this one.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Links or it didn't happen.
I prefer patties. Anyhow...read a paper, watch the news...it's all coming out. Rationalizing & pontificating endlessly is pointless. Being contrary for contrary's sake is boring.
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Well, apparently they got the abuse among the boys sorted out rather fast in spite of the knee-jerk bullshit lies they bait gullible fools like Jong with...
Maybe you haven't kept up with current events there Jong, but I've shredded every one of those deliberate shine-jobs handed to the press to enrage the gullible before the dust even settled, and this latest is no different.
Most of it is indeed the usual run of the mill scratch and dent stuff which happens to active kids, as opposed to the console-jockey couch potato kids of the more mainstream societies.
And some of it was abuse not by adults, but by the older boys upon the younger, which is a typical and expected thing occuring within any authoritarian, heirarchial society with limited supervision - a kind of nasty pecking order mentality that's part and parcel of such a model and CFBR is apparently addressing in spite of the State being rather annoyed at them for not playin ball with the witch hunt.
And the TX authorities went to the Feds and asked them to throw in, to which the Feds, in the person of Kirk Torgenson flat out told them there just wasn't enough probable cause to go on this one, and hasn't been since 2003, while bemoaning the difficulty of spying on folk who mistrust the oh so benevolent State.
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695275674,00.html
It does comfort me to hear the Feddies announce a clear respect for and intent to follow the regs and laws, while subtle chiding the TX authorities and FBI in a discreet fashion.
Speakin of which.....
One reason for the FLDS's dislike and distrust from the state stems from something no one felt fit to inform ME of until very late yesterday, but ought to be mentioned - these folk have gone through this same wringer before.
Just before dawn on July 26, 1953, 102 Arizona state police officers and soldiers from the National Guard entered Short Creek. The community—which was composed of approximately 400 Mormon fundamentalists—had been tipped off about the planned raid and were found singing hymns in the schoolhouse while the children played outside. The entire community was taken into custody, with the exception of six individuals who were found not to be fundamentalist Mormons. Among those taken into custody were 236 children. One hundred and fifty of the children who were taken into custody were not permitted to return to their parents for over two years, and some parents never did regain custody of their children.
And no charges were ever filed.
In light of that incident and this one, I am beginning to rethink my stance on the idea of "gearing up", since certain OTHER folks who did so have experienced an *immediate* reduction in overall hasslement by local authorities.
Make of that what you will, but I still think mutually assured destruction and nihilistic scorched earth are damn stupid cards to play against superior forces capable of calling your bluff, Waco was evidence enough of that - but I am a schemer, not a religous devotee, and some of them folk WOULD rather fry and die than lay down and take something like this from the State...
And they made that abundantly clear via recent purchases despite my advice against - but I might well be wrong in this because that *did*, at least so far have the desired effect in forestalling local aggression against them, and as long as they comply with the law, who am I to tell them not to bear arms ?
It does make me nervous though, considering just how badly that could go.
As for FLDS, it's wait and see, supposedly there's a hearing today, but the State having reneged on several already, nobody is expecting much, and unless they find enough cause to file some charges soon, it's going to unravel on them, especially with them still trying to deny Swinton made the original call - cause at that point the whole house of cards comes down and the lawsuits start flying.
Of course, not like the authorities care, it ain't their money that pays those, it's yours and mine.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough
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Just for you Jong, since like many of your ilk, you seem to suffer temporary illiteracy when someone prints something you do not want to believe.
FLDS adults not suspected of abusing boys
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5747898.html
"State authorities are investigating whether younger boys taken from a polygamist ranch in West Texas were sexually abused by older boys, not adults, a state official clarified Thursday."
Let me translate that for you.
"Ok, yes, we lied to whip up more hysteria and you caught us, oops."
Almost every press release so far has been outright bullshit - you'd think after six or seven that sensible folk might get a LITTLE skeptical, yes ?
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Just for you Jong, since like many of your ilk, you seem to suffer temporary illiteracy when someone prints something you do not want to believe.
FLDS adults not suspected of abusing boys
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5747898.html
"State authorities are investigating whether younger boys taken from a polygamist ranch in West Texas were sexually abused by older boys, not adults, a state official clarified Thursday."
Let me translate that for you.
"Ok, yes, we lied to whip up more hysteria and you caught us, oops."
Almost every press release so far has been outright bullshit - you'd think after six or seven that sensible folk might get a LITTLE skeptical, yes ?
-F
Where is your head most of the time?...In the sand , or up your ass? You are a total whack job freak who envisions a world you've manifested in your little head. A sad little misguided fool at best, a useful idiot agent of chaos at worst.
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Quote:OOOH HOOO! Now Jongsstraw is coming out with his very best argument: name-calling!
Where is your head most of the time?...In the sand , or up your ass? You are a total whack job freak who envisions a world you've manifested in your little head. A sad little misguided fool at best, a useful idiot agent of chaos at worst.
Oh yeah, that's a convincing point!
NOT
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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I do believe you have mistaken my head for your own, but never fear, my boot will be happy to keep it company.
Of course, that's probably a bit too cerebral for you, but that makes it even funnier.
-F
*Edit: And the hilarity of calling an Anarchist an "agent of chaos" as an insult is no doubt lost on you as well.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Surely, if the alleged men involved were partaking in something that had been going on for likely generations and had been so far separated from the "real world" that it was perfectly okay for them, some sort of leinancy should be shown and some kind of understanding and forgiveness for their actions.
You're shittin' me, right? Most sociopaths that go around killing people have had something, or a series of somethings happen to them in childhood that fucks with their ability to distinguish right from wrong. By your logic, we should stop prosecuting serial killers, because most of them don't see their actions as wrong.
Quote:
Just remember people.... IF this all really did in fact happen the way that the knee-jerkers in here said that it did, the boys in this cult, for lack of a better word, who themselves became the men in this cult, were just as indoctrinated into the way of life there that the girls were.
So were the Hitler Youth. Didn't stop us from "persecuting" their beliefs, did it?
Quote:
If this really did happen, above all else I think we need to realize this and find some understanding. I don't believe that there was much of any evildoing for the sake of doing evil going on here.
There rarely ever is. Everyone sees themselves as moral, whether they're raping girls for their "prophet", or gassing jews for their fuhrer.
Quote:
This was their way. It might be the wrong way, and it definately is a way that is very foreign to the greater society's way, but it was their way, and I believe that there was love there among many of the people involved.
My God, that is such a pussy line. Fuck their way. If they're on U.S. soil, then they will follow U.S. law, or they will get the fuck out.
Quote:
All of these people may very well be completely messed up in the head and if we're going to violently thrust them from their womb and assimilate them like Borg, well.... the least we could do is give them the courtesy of a reach-around after giving them such a vile shafting that they shan't soon forget.
Let me reiterate: Fuck 'em
.Assimilating them is exactly what we should do, not the pansy PC way the State has gone, sending them to foster parents who will be sensetive about their ridiculous faith. Wipe their cult from the face of the Earth. Lock up their religious leaders where they can't spread their message, burn their "holy" texts, and ensure that from this point on, no human being will be enslaved by their fundamentalist lunacy ever again.
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"O' course, ya couldn't buy an invite with a diamond the size of a testicle, but luckily I got my hands on a couple." -Badger
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