Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 15 of 28
Quote:
If I'd been in charge I would simply have faded from the scene. Left a couple of guys in the background just to keep tabs on who's going in and out, making sure that food is still being delivered, that children are not being harmed a la Jim Jones. Let Koresh go on and on about his enemies "out there" but after a few months of nothing in view, eventually it wears thin. But keeping a big, intimidating military-style presence just played into Koresh's paranoid teachings... which at that point wasn't paranoia anymore it was fact.
Bingo.
Just keep a tight perimeter and wait for em to throw in the towel - done right, it's not really significantly more expensive than keeping them in prison, ain't like they're going anywhere and like I said, you can ALWAYS resort to force, if you got it handy, but it should not be the first tool you reach for.
And it's worked quite fine when that has been done, as in Montana with the whole Freemen standoff - it was the constant provocations that needlessly escalated matters at Waco.
All I can publicly say right now - we have significant reinforcements, don't worry about $$$, it's there, just a matter where and how to use it most effectively.
Mind, The legal fund and trio of lawsuits is handled by others, not us, but since the propaganda game is gonna get played whether or not it should be, some internet specialists are working rather feverishly on sitework through a Canadian host who's unlikely to bow to extra-legal pressure.
(For the record, I disagree but was outvoted there.)
As for care and custody - this is where some help from the Mormons would come in handy, especially as even in spite of theological differences they share enough tenets to be less traumatic or even sympathetic as potential foster parents if it should come to that, but they're scared shitless of guilt-by-association right now.
Some of the kids have been moved to foster care without a proper hearing, and Habeus Corpus has been filed in attempts to get those hearings first, and there's some further potential legal flak given the case histories of some of the fosters, but I cannot hand over details there at this time.
The current projected plan is to have Perry's folk down at the childtrauma academy do an evaluation and treatment plan for those who are proven victims of abuse, and try to place them with Mormon fosters willing to accept the extra effort of said treatment plan and get them up to speed if they are educationally behind, with a minimum of psychological harm.
But without anything to work with, and the State constantly trying to duck out of playing by the rules, and ever increasing antagonism from very pissed off, upset members of FLDS, it becomes paramount that the State be visibly in compliance with it's own regs, procedures and laws - because this is utterly critical in securing the needed cooperation that without which, things could go very badly wrong.
Just *imagine* how the spark of even just one of those removed kids being then abused in a Foster Home would add to this kindling, especially were such to happen now.
And as matters stand, that is a high statistical possibility, given the condition of the TX Foster Care System, and the amount of children involved here.
If THAT happens, there's no way in hell we can keep a lid on this mess, it'll blow sky high no matter what we do.
I'd really, really, really prefer that not to happen.
-Frem
EDIT: Here's the Strayhorn reports on the TX Foster Care System, and shamefully nothing significant has changed since these were written.
http://www.window.state.tx.us/news/60623statement.html
http://www.window.state.tx.us/forgottenchildren/
Provided we get the matter at hand resolved, this whole issue might also help spotlight and draw public ire to the TX systems problems and generate enough political pressure to get some folk off their ass about it, but first things first, here...
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Update:
It's prettymuch a confirmed event that Swinson was the caller pretending to be "Sarah" - the number links back to a pre-pay phone she had used to make other false claims.
This also lends credence to the thought that officials knew the report was fake, since that number was a dead giveaway on even the most cursory of investigation.
A tipsheet handed out to some of the social workers has set a lot of teeth on edge given inaccuracies bordering on propaganda, and some of the social workers themselves have expressed annoyance that it is not consistent with the witnessed behavior and actions of those they are working with - what's on it, I don't know, but it pissed a lot of folk off.
They apparently also handed it to the Foster parents that they shoved some of these kids on, setting up a potentially adversarial environment based on bad information, as you can imagine that ain't helpin matters any.
The LDS(Mormons) are trying like hell to distance themselves at this point, out of fear of winding up on the same short end of the stick - not only did we ask their assistance, but from what I gather so did the authorities, only to be met with a fast, flat refusal and the assertation that the LDS has nothing in common and the beliefs are in fact hostile to each other.
I don't doubt there's some antagonism, but they overstated it significantly cause like I said, they're scared shitless of guilt-by-association, and like it or not, if we have to place some of these kids in the least traumatic environment possible, we NEED their help.
And our chances of getting it get dimmer and dimmer every time the State does an end run on their own laws and rules, which is a damn nonstop thing right now, or at least their trying to.
While not directly involved, those working on the sites for them have been real Yeomen about it, supposedly the sites are up, and information is being added as fast as it can be hammered in...
But it is my opinion that such is a propaganda effort more than anything else, and I stand against shading the truth on this, so I am not whatever involved in that end of things.
All I can offer at the moment,
-F
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Quote:Siggy, you have a disabled hubby? Here I thought you were a man all this time. Or do you swing that way?
Originally posted by SignyM:
Unfortuantley with a disabled hubby and child, I wouldn't be much of a helping hand foster-wise. But if it comes to $$$.... THAT I can help with. Let me know.
I'm confused.
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Update:
They unsealed the documents - Swinson was indeed the caller, and yes, the State KNEW this when they filed the warrant, this is no longer in doubt.
The appeals court sided with us this morning in that individual hearings are required, while dodging the fact that the State has already violated the law repeatedly - although they did schedule 48 hearings for 29 Apr.
The Salt Lake County Bar association has come to our aid over the fact that this event is a total violation of Constitutional and Civil Rights, and we might be picking up some additional legal personnel over that, we will see.
A relevant case has come to light in Arlington County, read it and make your own call on it.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1347693~Baby_snatching_by_Arlington_County.h
tml
Not helping matters is yesterdays Supreme Court Decision that the State no longer has to abide by the Fourth Amendment.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080423/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_search;_ylt=
Ao3i9tdcyQSFSrgmzj9PkFGs0NUE
Although apparently not big news, that has some pretty nasty implications all by itself, and the timing of this ruling is quite suspect, if you ask me.
The State keeps moving these kids around, trying to "shake them loose" and break contact between them and their families, some of the mothers were told either go with them, or never see them again and got NO chance to contact their lawyers before that decision, unknown at this time how many got on the buses.
The cops shook our tail car by pulling it over for a "routine stop" and simply holding it under threat of force without charges or a ticket, till the caravan was out of sight, the authorities seem very keen on splitting up and moving around the children constantly - which makes it damn hard to keep track and really increases the difficulty of representing them, several Guardian Ad Litems have complained to me that they no longer have any idea where the child they are representing even IS, much less in what conditions they are staying, or with who.
Initial reports are that those buses did not all go to same destination, either, waiting for confirmation on that at this time.
As far as we can tell, surprisingly, Boy's Ranch is doing the job of caring for the boys in their care as best that can be expected under the circumstances, and apparently on a charitable emergency basis as the State has made no effort to renumerate them for expenses, they do seem to be trying to work up a plan and have not introduced them into the regular program, which is wise, one would hope they are consulting with Perry's folk, but no way to confirm that while respecting their privacy so we'll simply suggest it and hold off on that front.
They seem to be in a bit of a rock and a hard place themselves, the State has pressured them via CPS, and CFBR has evidenced a certain skepticism of the State and CPS's motives and intent, which has lead in part to that lack of renumeration, apparently they mistook CFBR's commitment to the kids under their care, and I believe I might have as well, so we'll be giving that the benefit of the doubt till we see otherwise.
The Canadians are gritting their teeth a little, cause if the State improperly seperated and severed a parent-child relationship of someone Canadian, they will have to get involved, they don't want to - but it's becoming increasingly likely they might be dragged into this, and that's kind of messy, to put it lightly.
And we can prettymuch forget about LDS(Mormons) helping, what with the States continual violation of their own rules, laws, procedures, lack of respect for due process, and in really blatant, unapologetic fashion - there's not a hope in hell at this point that they will offer so much as a single word or dime of assistance officially, and have advised us rather harshly against appealing to individuals, with vague threats.
I did advise them against "arming up" given that all FFL purchases go into the BATFE database and if they pop a warning flag it might start something, but they didn't wanna hear it and sent me pac
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No, not a man. Most people assumed I was a guy altho Chris had me figured out a long time ago! I hope that doesn't change how people view me in the future. 
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:This sounds very much like how the post-911 detainees were treated: detained w/o charges, no list provided anywhere of who was where, moved about in secret, no representation allowed by request from the detainee, family members not able to find - much less assist- their loved ones, attorneys not being able to find their own clients, etc.
... the authorities seem very keen on splitting up and moving around the children constantly - which makes it damn hard to keep track and really increases the difficulty of representing them, several Guardian Ad Litems have complained to me that they no longer have any idea where the child they are representing even IS, much less in what conditions they are staying, or with who.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Good for Chris! Gawd, I can't believe I missed that.
Well, it is good to know there's another woman regular on this board.
And no, it doesn't change my view of you. 
(Just kidding. On the bashing, not the fact that my view won't change.)
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I'm not confused...I'm clueless!
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HAHAHAHAHA!!!
There are more of "us" here than you think....
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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I feel like a woman... that is, exploited, dismissed, and I might go home with you if you buy me a lot of drinks.
Frankly, I wish you were all girls, and then I would have a de facto harem; the de jure ones are so difficult to find these days.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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Sig, that is a matter of great concern to me, given that Texas CPS has previously been complicit in "dissappearing" kids under their care that wound up in the hands of Franklin and others, a bit of history I have seen fit not to share with the folks involved because of the ever-increasing possibility of someone doing something... stupid.
When playing by rule of the gun, you do NOT go head on with folks who outgun you, but some of the folk we're dealing with are in bad emotional places, it's pretty traumatising to someone who believed the law protected them, and that officials would obey it, coming face to face with the ugly reality that if they choose not to, you really don't have any recourse in the matter.
And then I gotta point out what they really do not want to hear, that you have no chance of rectifying the matter outside of legal bounds because you're completely outgunned, that they're practically looking for an excuse to kill you, and should you survive, YOU will be held to the letter of the law even if the State is not.
Trust me, NOBODY wants to hear that.
You have no idea how hard it's becoming to keep a lid on this, cause one stupid incident on either side is all it's going to take, whether one of the kids moved to a Foster placement becomes a victim of abuse that way, or the State "loses" some of the kids, or some parent decides to do something foolish, the whole thing is just a puddle of gasoline vapors waiting for a match.
And I am right pissed at this point the folk did not stand up and apply political pressure to the authorities when it mattered most, cause at this point there's not a lot what can be done to stop this train wreck, and my conscience is bothering me about trying to keep a lid on peoples outrage when I know damn well they have every right and cause for it....
I can't put it into words, how gut wrenching it is to tell someone things like this, to convince a parent who's child has been illegally stolen to sit on their hands and let it happen because if they don't things will get even nastier, to look them in the eye and give them the plain, ugly realities of the situation and watch something within them just wilt and die in the knowing.
Just for a moment imagine being in my shoes, imaging HAVING to tell someone that, face to face, and harshly, to prevent them from doing something counterproductive and possibly suicidal...
And you might begin to understand the motivations behind the things that I do.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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