Is Science Fiction inherently anti-establishment?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, April 19, 2008 17:10
VIEWED: 5811
PAGE 3 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
There’s no warning. The fascist ideology is not presented in Starship Troopers as a dystopic society, but indeed as a “better“ society.
WHAT????
It was CLEARLY a warning of the "You want THIS future?" variety (in the movie). It was also commenting (ahead of time) about making a virtual religion of hating the enemy.
I would NOT want to live in that world, and I can't believe that you would either.
Bugsisall
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Quote:Actually, I wouldn’t mind at all living in that society - sans the giants bugs. Like all utopias, it would be a wonderful place to live by definition, but I don’t believe it’s actually possible. In fact, as a child, when I was still silly enough to think such things might be possible, I used to imagine myself living in the “Star Trek” type utopias.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It was CLEARLY a warning of the "You want THIS future?" variety (in the movie). It was also commenting (ahead of time) about making a virtual religion of hating the enemy.
I would NOT want to live in that world, and I can't believe that you would either.
I was quite the Trekkie for that very reason I think.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:One thing I liked about that movie was the way they portrayed it as a working society- not the "Fascism leads to Hitler" thing. Still, I found it more than a bit stifling, which I think we were meant to.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually, I wouldn’t mind at all living in that society - sans the giants bugs.
Gimme the Trek life Chrisisall
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Quote:I think the movie played on a lot fascist imagery, which in the real world, as it turns out, is quite stifling, but in the imaginary world of Heinlein, it was a liberal society with a freely elected government - the only requirement in the society was that people had to play a part in that society in order for their vote to count. And ideologically, I find that to be a very satisfying premise - although it may present problems in practice.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:One thing I liked about that movie was the way they portrayed it as a working society- not the "Fascism leads to Hitler" thing. Still, I found it more than a bit stifling, which I think we were meant to.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually, I wouldn’t mind at all living in that society - sans the giants bugs.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Or maybe you didn't. Just because I didn't get from it what you evidently did, doesn't mean I didn't get it and you did.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
First of all, I don’t really think you understand the book.
Quote:Erm, when did I say it was like Nazism? Oh, yeah, I didn't. What I said was that the characters being pro society, doesn't mean anything, because they would be. Just like a gestapo officer would be pro Nazism, but that doesn't mean a book with a pro-Nazi gestapo officer, would be pro Nazi.
The fascist ideology presented in Starship Troopers is nothing like Nazism or for that matter like Italian or Spanish Fascism. It may technically be a form of fascism, but it is not a diastopic society.
Last year I read a book by Ben Elton on the First World War. At the time, most people were pro-war, it was a conflict fought off of nationalism at its height. But Ben Elton doesn't like the war, so the main character is more Ben Elton transplanted into then, than a man of the time. The point is that it's the opposite of the above, the main character is openly anti-war, in a way that is highly unlikely, and it feels clunky and unrealistic.
Quote:But is Joss Whedon's portrayal of Inara pro-prostitution?
Now one can argue that such a society is impossible, but there is no doubt that it is being presented in Starship Troopers as a “better” society.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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I still don't think you understood the book.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:I still don't think you understood my post.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I still don't think you understood the book.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Well, book wise, I see no problem with that, I'm just sayin' I think the movie was more from Verhoeven's anti-Fascist POV.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
it was a liberal society with a freely elected government - the only requirement in the society was that people had to play a part in that society in order for their vote to count. And ideologically, I find that to be a very satisfying premise
Nazi-like Chrisisall
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Quote:No, I take it as anti-regulation...
Originally posted by citizen:
But is Joss Whedon's portrayal of Inara pro-prostitution?
My filter is interfering Chrisisall
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Quote:That’s probably true. But even in the movie, you really have to look for the dystopic side. It's more of a feeling then a direct issue. If you didn't know anything about Nazism or Nazi propaganda, would you really find something dystopic about the settings? Maybe it falls more into the Armageddon camp, where it's not clear which side of the establishment coin it falls on.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Well, book wise, I see no problem with that, I'm just sayin' I think the movie was more from Verhoeven's anti-Fascist POV.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
it was a liberal society with a freely elected government - the only requirement in the society was that people had to play a part in that society in order for their vote to count. And ideologically, I find that to be a very satisfying premise
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME