Do you support our current president?
POSTED BY: canttakesky
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 21, 2021 17:33
VIEWED: 12746
PAGE 13 of 15
Yes, but you're avoiding the other 50% who apparently won't step forward to stop that 5% (or in the case of LAPD 10%).
Put yourself in the mind of that "other" officer: You've seen your colleague throw down an unresisting civilian... beat them or tase them repeatedly for apparently no reason whatsoever. Or worse, order them to get up and THEN beat them and charge them for "resisting". Or be part of a "stomp circle" in which several "officers" beat and kick and unresisting civilian. Or plant drugs, steal and sell evidence, or rape and rob women.
And you do..... what?
Nothing?
What does that make you?
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Put yourself in the mind of that "other" officer: You've seen your colleague throw down an unresisting civilian... beat them or tase them repeatedly for apparently no reason whatsoever. Or worse, order them to get up and THEN beat them and charge them for "resisting". Or be part of a "stomp circle" in which several "officers" beat and kick and unresisting civilian. Or plant drugs, steal and sell evidence, or rape and rob women.
And you do..... what?
Nothing?
What does that make you?
What are you currently doing to ensure that matters of police brutality go reported across the country besides railing at Posters on this internet forum?
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Not an abusive officer.
Originally posted by SignyM:
What does that make you?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Well, if you see someone committing a crime... and that's what the abusive officers are doing... as a police officer aren't you suposed to DO something about it?
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:*biggest LOL on this thread!!!*
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
http://www.amazon.com/High-Cotton-Come-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572
That's priceless!!!
Gotta get oneisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Who says so-called abusive officers are necessarily committing crimes? Most of the officers in the Rodney King case didn't commit any crimes until the federal government decided to exchange justice for appeasement.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ah yes, now we get to the meat of the matter...
Of *course* the great majority of police behavior is committed by a relatively few individuals, turn it around and compare with Vachss studies on "lifestyle-violent" offenders, the great majority of crime is committed by relatively few individuals also, you see.
That same dynamic applies to a lot of human behavior, military studies have determined that a mere 4-5% of the troops do more than 70% of the killin, so this is something that applies across the board.
It's not the 5% that concern me so much, were it not for the culture of corruption that covers for them, be it fear of retaliation, job solidarity, the us and them mentality or what have you, they would be charged, discliplined and expelled in short order, a general and ongoing housecleaning effect you need in any profession, really.
It is the officers who won't step up to the plate and clean their own house, but close ranks and cover for, defend these guys, a tacit complicity that encourages or supports that behavior and thus allows it to continue - coloring the perception of the police as a whole by anyone ever witnessing or affected by that abuse.
The issue is, what do we do about them, and how - while they did not actively participate in the abuse much of the time (although I cite Milgram here, and point out that once an event is initiated by an abusive officer, most others will join in rather than put a stop to it) they know about it and chose not to act, or even willingly help in the coverup.
That is the keystone of the whole issue, right there, and just like the military concept of illegal orders, while a lot of legal butt covering and lip service is given to the topic of taking issue with a fellow officers misbehavior, the reality is in fact quite different, and in spite of that lip service the training, procedure and policy tends to severely discourage it.
This cycles, also, to some degree, back to the respect issue, a cop should have the self-respect and respect of his profession to not want to tolerate such behavior even for a minute, but due to the self-feeding cycle of this behavior and the lack of consequences causing the public as a whole to lose respect for the police force, there is also that impact upon their own self respect, as is the impact of often having to enforce petty and ridiculous bullshit the officers themselves can barely stomach.
Add to that the problem of holding them to a lower legal and ethical standard than non police, and you've created the perfect recipe for this problem to exist.
That would be the first element required to address this issue - a police officer who knowingly and willfully violates the law should recieve no privledge or tolerance for it, but should in fact be held to a higher standard with an increased set of penalties given that they swore to uphold it as a profession.
And their fellow officers should be also penalized for such events, in minor form, as a discouragement to allow both such abuses, and those they can obviously determine are likely to commit them, within the ranks in the first place.
Also, the double-standard of enforcement has to go, police officers should be subject to every single little nitpick rule, regulation and law that citizens are, with the aforementioned increased penalties - that would result in short term trouble, but in the end would bring to light the impossibility of enforcing ALL those rules, ALL the time, against everyone, it's just not possible and to even try one opens the door to abuses of the process.
As a benefit, we would finally get to address HOW we want the law enforced, and some decisions would have to be made as to whether or not we really want to waste police time and resources on enforcing some of the really ridiculous shit we currently waste it on.
Add in better training more focused on community protection and crime prevention instead of law enforcement, and shift responsibility for triaging the decision to enforce a misdemeanor crime or not back where it belongs, to the officer i
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Yeah. Report it.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, if you see someone committing a crime... and that's what the abusive officers are doing... as a police officer aren't you suposed to DO something about it?
Then get ready for the sh*tstorm.
Way I see it, good officers reserve that action for their goodbye from the force, so they save it for something big, or, they just try to do the right thing without looking at what others are doing (Tryin' to see it from their side here...).
Personally, I couldn't stand by and do nothing in the face of corruption, hence my not being a PO. I'd be known as "Chrisisall The (dead) Rat".
Hell, if my own SON was being bad, I'd nail him.
I guess I'm just black & white in a world of gray.
Chrisisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I think most officers would agree with you on this. The vast majority of officers probably wouldn’t hesitate to intervene, obstruct or report a situation in which egregious abuse was obvious. The problem is that abusive officers don’t make it obvious. These kinds of people operate in the shadows. They may use disproportionate force or other inappropriate tactics, but they won’t advertise it, even to their fellow cop, and the victims of these kinds of tactics are people who are suspected of or none to be less then scrupulous themselves. Other officers may find themselves between their loyalty to what they believe to be right and defending what they believe to wrong based on an uncertain memory of events. The situation can become very grey, even for people who think they have their ethics solid.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah. Report it.
Then get ready for the sh*tstorm.
Way I see it, good officers reserve that action for their goodbye from the force, so they save it for something big, or, they just try to do the right thing without looking at what others are doing (Tryin' to see it from their side here...).
Personally, I couldn't stand by and do nothing in the face of corruption, hence my not being a PO. I'd be known as "Chrisisall The (dead) Rat".
Hell, if my own SON was being bad, I'd nail him.
I guess I'm just black & white in a world of gray.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:This is exactly opposite of what surveys and studies show, so my guess is that you're simply in denial and no amount of factual information is going to change your mind.
I think most officers would agree with you on this. The vast majority of officers probably wouldn’t hesitate to intervene, obstruct or report a situation in which egregious abuse was obvious. The problem is that abusive officers don’t make it obvious. These kinds of people operate in the shadows
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME