Do you support our current president?
POSTED BY: canttakesky
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 21, 2021 17:33
VIEWED: 12746
PAGE 9 of 15
Browncoat, I doubt the old geezer had any paperwork on the piece he was waving around that night, I figure they cited him for "brandishing" and took it in hopes of preventing one of the little punks from getting shot, I myself couldn't tell you what level of training the guy had, either, never knew him well enough, so it's not beyond pale he might have capped one of them without intent.
That bein said, when they came back that night, I doubt they intended actual murder, probably wanted to rough him up as an object lesson and it got out of hand.
I had my own run-in with the little ratpack as well, caught them in my back yard trying to make off with my Tomos Bullet, and their leader drew what appeared to be a weapon, only to find himself staring down the twin barrels of my grandaddys .410 bird gun, which was all I had handy at the time.
Faced with the unpleasant possibility of eating some birdshot, they humped it down the way.
Predictably, soon after the BCPD came to MY place and threatened to take the bird gun... and I really kinda hesitate to admit it, but some threats were exchanged by BOTH sides, and they left without filing charges OR taking the weapon.
This happened, mind, a couple days after the coroner collected the old guy and we were of no mind to wind up the same way, you see - me, girl, girls brother and both her parents, eye to eye with two officers and no intent to meekly comply.
So they left, told us to go to hell and if we DID shoot one of the little punks and do the world that much a favor, they were gonna bust the lot of us for murder and conspiracy to commit.
We told them to go to hell and not come back without a warrant in hand.
Then we had a few quiet discussions with the neighbors of that block and the next one over, and with a little help from the scanner and actions taken while the force was in no position to act, made the little bastards find somewhere else to play their nasty little games.
That ugly bit of business was the final straw in me leaving that neighborhood, despite having to ditch a reall good job in an area where they were few and far between.
And yeah, it colored my perception of the force significantly, as did quite a few others before it in that area.
Didn't help the locals opinion of em any, neither.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Difference is when I'm having a bad day I don't TASE anyone or start a process that requires time, lawyers and money.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
An officer may be having a bad day, and may over react to what would otherwise be a benign situation.
For that observation alone, CIA...THANK YOU.
It was like that when we got here!
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Quote:Again, puhleeeeeze. Tasing is easy and requires less paperwork is all. It's what you do when you're angry enough to shoot someone, but not angry enough to plant evidence & go to court because of the blood.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You keep bring up tasing, but use of tasers is often a perfect example of a situation in which police react appropriately
Quote:You want to simplify the issue down to an uncooperative and unsympathetic public, but it's not that simple.
You want to simplify the issue down to a bunch bullying police, but its not that simple.
Excessive Chrisisall
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Quote:As I said, many people don’t really care about the real issues here. They have decided to adopt this simplistic view that police are bullies, and that‘s all there is to it. You simply will not even entertain the idea that there could possibly be another dimension, and neither will many others.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
You want to simplify the issue down to an uncooperative and unsympathetic public, but it's not that simple.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Well, more accurately, that the system allows a certain percentage to be bullies, and this is an area I personally would appreciate having a zero-tolerance for.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
As I said, many people don’t really care about the real issues here. They have decided to adopt this simplistic view that police are bullies, and that‘s all there is to it.
Again, for the cheap seats: A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE.
Nobody, and I do mean nobody here is saying that all or most cops are bad. No more so that saying Swiss cheese is made entirely of holes. It has A PERCENTAGE of holes.
Are we clear yet?
Precise Chrisisall
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Quote:That’s still an over simplistic view, which completely ignores the responsibility of the public. I think that there is something very self-serving about this explanation, after all if you can convince yourself that all police encounters that don’t’ go the way you expect them to are solely the result of “bully-police” then you can absolve yourself of the responsibilities you have in such encounters - you are then free to be as big a bully or more to the point as unfair as you want.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Well, more accurately, that the system allows a certain percentage to be bullies, and this is an area I personally would appreciate having a zero-tolerance for.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
As I said, many people don’t really care about the real issues here. They have decided to adopt this simplistic view that police are bullies, and that‘s all there is to it.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Here's one for ya: You probably think my perception of the Rodney King incident is that it's all the cop's fault, right? Okay, I think they went too far, but Rodney was not a small fella, and even a big guy has to lay motionless in the face of dudes with guns, so it wasn't all 'them'.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s still an over simplistic view, which completely ignores the responsibility of the public.
That's to say that there ARE gray areas that come into my consciousness, it's just that it can be so lopsided when you deal with those in 'authority' vs the little guy.
"How's a girl supposed to get home, officer?"
"Somehow."
Chrisisall
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Quote:That’s true, but the Rodney King case is many years old though. It is history not current events - if we have to wait almost 20 years for people to gain some degree of perspective in their view of the police then that doesn’t seem very fair or balanced. And the Rodney King case is a good example of the disastrous results of that lack of balance. People didn’t bother to even consider that Rodney King might not have been completely innocent in that encounter, they simply took the streets and murdered and pillaged to the tune of dozens dead and a billion dollars in damage.
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Here's one for ya: You probably think my perception of the Rodney King incident is that it's all the cop's fault, right? Okay, I think they went too far, but Rodney was not a small fella, and even a big guy has to lay motionless in the face of dudes with guns, so it wasn't all 'them'.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s still an over simplistic view, which completely ignores the responsibility of the public.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Finn
Back to my cousin - being the straight arrow and fair-minded guy he is, when he was working with a bunch of federals that had, shall we say, a culture of corruption, and could neither go along with them nor rat them out (there were just so many more of them) he developed a stress ulcer and was finally transferred away.
Not all cops are bad - but when they are they usually exist in a culture that supports it. The fellow cops are either in on it or ignore it, the boss is either in on it or ignores it, and unless or until one can get incontrovertible PROOF AS A CITIZEN that such things happen it goes on, and on, and on, and on ... under the radar. And I'm not talking about minor bullying, either.
There are good cops out there - and then there are nests that should have been cleaned out years ago. To say that those nests don't exist is the height of ignorance.
(use of tasers) "... example of a situation in which police react appropriately"
AHEM ! May I remind you that tasers are alternatives to the use of GUNS. Somehow I don't think that if a person fails to lie down on the ground you'd automatically pull out your gun and shoot them. Or would you Finn ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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We've already done the taser issue to death, and in fact come to a pretty much mutual conclusion that every discharge should be accounted for the same as the service weapon, and it should be placed second only to the service weapon in the force continuum.
Properly used, with appropriate safeguards on their use via policy and training, they could save lives that would otherwise be more at risk because the alternative would be shootin someone.
But those safeguards NEED to be there, because without them there is the temptation to use a semi-lethal weapon as a compliance device or "people remote" - which is a wholly inappropriate, but all too common use of them.
I do suspect that as these devices filter into the hands of the public, as they have begun to do via the companies marketing, we may well see criminals using them to avoid firearms charges, and probably some long overdue legal clarification as to whether it is legally considered a lethal, non-lethal, or less-lethal weapon - which is likely to impact police policy as well.
I will note that given the current expense and difficulty of operation, it's gonna be a while before that threat is any kinda real, mind, cause a gun is still cheaper and easier to use, but there is a niche for it, just as criminals used to use stunguns at one time, especially for crimes against women.
The problem with tasers is not the device itself, it's a policy problem, and needs to be handled at the level of those who SET policy, especially since they failed so badly on having policies and use of force guidelines in place ahead of time.
I don't hold out much hope for stuffing that genie back in the bottle, but what there is of it rests further up the chain of command than the officer on the street, who is often operating on a vague or non-existent policy regarding their use.
That's only HIS failure on the judgement call, the lack of policy is a failure of his bosses, and they should get their rightful share of flak for it.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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