Do you support our current president?
POSTED BY: canttakesky
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 21, 2021 17:33
VIEWED: 12746
PAGE 5 of 15
A few thoughts.
1) Since any one person's experience should have as much weight as any others, Finn and Frems experiences are equally valid. The difference is that Finn is not claiming that every officer must be an angel based on his experience and Frem seems to be suggesting all officers are Aholes based on his.
2) Frem is right, you would expect that line of work to attract certain personality types, which is probably why "the bad stuff" happens far more than we like.
3)He's also right that professional police groups are far more likely to consider complaints as attacks rather than reports of abuses. At least part of this I suspect is because alledging police harrasment is a "gambit" that some offenders use to try and avoid prosecution. If you KNOW you personally did nothing wrong but you are accused of something as part of a perps attempt to get off or gain sympathy at trial then I suspect if you hear similar complaints about another officer you're probably thinking the same thing is going on. Actual genuine abuses are probably not the first thing you think of.
4) The avaiability of cameras mean that abuses when they do happen are no longer "he said, she said" kinds of events. I think this is a good thing. However, even if we had 1000 videos (which we don't) we cant use them to say anything more than a 1000 events took place. There must be several hundred thousand police related encounters nationwide in a day, we have no way of knowing how many of those are bad events. Logically some of them must be, but by the same token people die during routine surgical proceedures. Almost anything humans do has a screwup and F***up factor.
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Quote:Frem clearly gave a positive example of a good cop.
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Finn and Frems experiences are equally valid. The difference is that Finn is not claiming that every officer must be an angel based on his experience and Frem seems to be suggesting all officers are Aholes based on his.
Maybe a place in the middle...off the edge....
Malisall
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Quote:No, it’s you. There’s no way to logically get from my posts what you’ve come up with. The opinion you claim I'm expressing in this thread is completely independent of anything I've actually said.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Maybe it's me and maybe it's you- the main point I get from your posts is that complaining about abuse of authority is nonsense.
You also practice selective reading of Frem’s posts, but the difference is that you use the selective reading to apologize for Frem, not mischaracterise him. In the end, one thing is certain- you’ve neither tried to understand me or Frem.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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No, Chris understands me perfectly well, it's you who never seem to get it no matter how many times or ways I express it.
My issues with us *having* a police force are minimal, I am well aware the general population isn't really grown up enough emotionally to not need that kind of backstop, although if it were not for the few decent examples of folk doing the job RIGHT - I would never have known it's value.
But see, that's the whole point - I want them to do the job, without abuse, waste or stupidity, to do it well and hold to a professional standard of conduct, part of which is NOT tolerating it among their own, WE should not have clean their house for em, THEY should do it before we get the chance, by putting the boot to folk unwilling or unable to hold to that standard, but they don't.
Instead they make excuses, cover for them, and this amounts to a tacit complicity that I find intolerable, you wouldn't want your banks manager covering for an embezzling employee, you wouldn't want your local hospital covering for a bungling doctor with a drinking problem, so why should we accept this phenomenae from our police forces ?
Folks should not be hestitant to report a crime due to fear of being arrested or assaulted by the police.
(See Also: Alice, affiliate)
Folks should not fear being hassled or arrested for defending themselves or their property.
But they are, due to a demonstrated pattern of behavior spanning multiple departments, many of which are not isolated incidents of a single officers misconduct, but like the LAPD Rampart issues, the current Chicago PD investigations, and the Kathryn Johnson case, have involved on-going, systematic, department-wide misconduct and abuse over long periods of time.
Originally published in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=185302
"Atlanta police narcotics officers often falsified search warrants to make busts and pad their arrests records hoping to satisfy goals set for them by upper brass, federal investigators said."
The problem is that they keep hiding behind that "few bad apples" excuse, and people LET them, when all the evidence points to a bad barrel.
And it never, ever stops, not at long as we give them a free pass on this behavior by buying into that bullshit excuse.
1999
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D01E4DC1339F937A2575BC
0A96F958260
2003
http://www.truthinjustice.org/17-detroit-cops.htm
2007
http://detroit.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/de092607.htm
2008
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080313/NEWS05/803130
348
Notice any real difference ?
Notice a pattern of specific, ongoing conduct ?
Notice a damn near continual need for the FBI to be up the DPD's ass with a microscope ?
This level of organised, systematic criminal behavior makes them a Mafia, not a police force, which is why I call them on it.
Just because it doesn't impact you directly, doesn't mean it doesn't impact you - a lack of confidence in the police can lead to all manner of unpleasantness, and who do you think pays the fines these guys rack up ?
Why, the very people they're mistreating - us taxpayers.
All I WANT is for them to do the job, and in a professional manner befitting the responsibility which they have assumed, and since *as a whole* that isn't happening, quite right that I am pissed off about it.
Sheepdogs that eat your sheep are a waste of resources and a detriment to the purpose for which you hired them.
-Frem
PS. You'll note, if you've at all been paying any kind of attention, when a cop DOES do a good job, or even gives a good faith effort despite a training failure, I am just as quick to call it a good job of things.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=31658
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Quote:You only express it one way - ‘any cop is a bad cop.’ Yes, after someone points out how ridiculous you sound, you’ll eventually throw a bone to try to recover your lost credibility. You’ll mention the ONE “good cop,” but only as a last resort, after your attempts at character assassination have failed. If you were honest about it, I suspect you’d have to admit that you want to believe that all cops are bad, because it fit’s the requirements for your extremists views of society. How can your dream of a purely Marxist society ever come to pass, if the state continues to police the public? You don’t want the police to regulate themselves - you want the police to be disband in favor of an anarchic society. You don’t care about confidence in the police. Your whole attitude is an attempt to undermine confidence in the police. You don’t want them to do their job - you want them gone - out of the equation completely. No I don’t think Chris understand you, but I’m pretty sure I do.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
No, Chris understands me perfectly well, it's you who never seem to get it no matter how many times or ways I express it.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I just think it's funny watching the usual authoritarian sycophants come out of the woodwork to defend this shit. Are you guys into the kinky whips and chains stuff too?
I'm on your side on this issue Sarge, but I quite enjoy the bondage scene. Don't knock it till you try it....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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You're so fulla shit Finn.
You have this half-ass, concocted image you wanna present as a strawman, and it just pisses you off mortally that I keep ruining your illusion, doesn't it ?
You wanna sit there and try to portray me as a one-dimensional cardboard cutout like some flunkie from the extras list of a john woo movie cause you ain't got the guts to face the points I make and argue them, especially when the evidence is so heavily against your view on the subject.
But that's the thing, you can maybe, sometimes get away with turning someones argument into a strawman - but there's no way in hell you can successfully do that to a person who can blow your deliberate misperceptions to bits just by stating their own goals and opinions instead of the ones you try to duct-tape onto them.
It's also a seriously asshole thing to do, especially in light of me being crystal clear about my motives, intent and opinions, so much so that I continually clarify them in the face of your asinine distortions - no matter HOW you try to spin it, you don't speak for me, you CAN'T speak for me, because you are too busy addressing an image manufactured from whole cloth rather than the person due to the fact that you are either unable, or unwilling, to face them directly.
You, and the rest of your ilk around here, condemn yourselves far more with your own actions and behavior than I could ever do to you, you are your own worst enemy and all too often let your temper get the better of you when proven wrong, and throw little tantrums like this, showing all involved that you simply don't have the maturity to effectively argue the topic.
What's worse, is that you are completely blind to just how easy it is to set you up and drop you through the manhole because of the inherent gullibility that lead you to support parties, leaders and agencies that act against your own interests instead of for them, something you won't admit, because it would require a careful self examination I do not believe you are capable of.
Now, if you'd like to offer something on the topic rather than attempted strawman character assassinations and other lame shit that just makes you look like a nasty, petty little brat, that might be a start, but I figure being caught out once again, you'll just slither away leaving nothing but a slimy trail in your wake once again.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You have this half-ass, concocted image you wanna present as a strawman, and it just pisses you off mortally that I keep ruining your illusion, doesn't it ?
You wanna sit there and try to portray me as a one-dimensional cardboard cutout like some flunkie from the extras list of a john woo movie cause you ain't got the guts to face the points I make and argue them, especially when the evidence is so heavily against your view on the subject.
You mean kinda like this?
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
I just think it's funny watching the usual authoritarian sycophants come out of the woodwork to defend this shit. Are you guys into the kinky whips and chains stuff too?
Seriously, how much fascist cock will you swallow before you gag???
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Quote:Finn, uh, I think you're doing with Frem what you said I'm doing with you, which is cherry picking & telling HIM HIS position on stuff.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You don’t want the police to regulate themselves - you want the police to be disband in favor of an anarchic society. You don’t care about confidence in the police. Your whole attitude is an attempt to undermine confidence in the police. You don’t want them to do their job - you want them gone - out of the equation completely.
Can we just agree on the following?
About a third of people in general are clueless or petty, and since cops are people, you should expect about the same percentage out of them.
See, if I was a cop, I'd be as quick to rat out a dickwad in my department as I would be to arrest a perp in the streets- an attitude that could get me killed, do you get that? We NEED police; I would just like to see a higher standard of recruitment & professionalism is all. But then the same goes for all government everywhere, IMO.
Quote:I think the emotionalism here is makin' that a little difficult.
No I don’t think Chris understands you, but I’m pretty sure I do.
Chrisisall
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Quote:LOL, uh, Frem, I *chortle* don't think this will help Finn see your position any more clearly....
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
you'll just slither away leaving nothing but a slimy trail in your wake once again.
Chrisisall, leaving a slimy trail of his own
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