Iraq good news

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Thursday, March 27, 2008 15:38
VIEWED: 2660
PAGE 1 of 1

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 12:56 PM

I see that the military has been following my strategy divide Iraq and pay off the Sunni insurgents. Now they're getting to the last part: kick the Shiite militias in the *ss. About time.

Still, I wonder: Is this a prelude to finally ending the occupation, or just another gambit in getting that Oil Law signed?

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Let's party like it's 1929.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I see that the military has been following my strategy

They don't sweep the internet for nothing...

Just don't expect any royalties off this one, Signy.

Bloody oilisall

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:24 PM

a plan...!!?!! Really - a PLAN -

not holding my breath on the troop reduction.... this is going to last many lifetimes - hell, it already has

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:51 PM

I have come to position that I want our troops out immediately...&....I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if Iran or The Taliban or Al Qaida or The Devil's Brigade itself overrun the place and kill everyone there. Yes...kill, torture, mass genocide...whatever...I don't care, and as far as I can determine, the vile and dastardly Iraqis deserve whatever they get.

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 1:59 PM

it continues to amaze me that we have elected officials - elected by the citizens of this country - who are willing to totally neglect the will of those citizens -

what say we vote em all out....

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
[I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if Iran or The Taliban or Al Qaida or The Devil's Brigade itself overrun the place and kill everyone there. Yes...kill, torture, mass genocide...whatever...I don't care,

Wow...that's kinda cold there Jong, doncha think?

Wide-eyed Chrisisall

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if Iran or The Taliban or Al Qaida or The Devil's Brigade itself overrun the place and kill everyone there. Yes...kill, torture, mass genocide...whatever...I don't care,
Wow...that's kinda cold there Jong, doncha think?

5 years into this AND we're still having to put up with the shit from Al Sadr and these militias? He should have been made a grease spot 2 years ago when we "liberated" Fallujah. I don't believe these Iraqis are worth or even slightly deserving of the freedom we have tried to bring to that country. Funny how none of these endlessly disruptive elements in Iraq never had the balls to do jack-squat when the Husseins were in power, but since the overthrow they all found "courage" and they have run amok. The war supporters still sing the same old tired mantra that if we pull out, we will have shown the Arab world that we can be defeated, and their loyalties might go to the jihadists...but I say bullshit! What we will be able to say to trhe Arab world is that America gave Iraq a good chance of being free and independent of dictators and murderers, but THEY blew it. They are too caught up in their own petty religious hatred to stand up and defend their country...they really don't understand or want freedom. They like, no love, being oppressed by tyrants. It's the Patty Hearst Syndrome, amplified by a factor of 35 years. That's the lesson of Iraq.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if Iran or The Taliban or Al Qaida or The Devil's Brigade itself overrun the place and kill everyone there. Yes...kill, torture, mass genocide...whatever...I don't care,
Wow...that's kinda cold there Jong, doncha think?

And yet it is possible if all of the troops come home as you have suggested on numerous occasions. Better to just cover your eyes and plug your ears and throw a big welcome home bash for the troops.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
What we will be able to say to the Arab world is that America gave Iraq a good chance of being free and independent of dictators and murderers, but THEY blew it. They are too caught up in their own petty religious hatred to stand up and defend their country...they really don't understand or want freedom.

Sir, I don't disagree with any particular point...

The sad Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

And yet it is possible if all of the troops come home as you have suggested on numerous occasions. Better to just cover your eyes and plug your ears and throw a big welcome home bash for the troops.

And a big, bright bouquet of effue flowers for the simpleton here.

The mad Chrisisall

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And a big, bright bouquet of effue flowers for the simpleton here.

Another reasoned rebuttal from Mr. C.I.A.

Care to explain your position on troop withdrawals from Iraq and the potential consequences. Or do you want to stick with hurling insults to those that question your stated position?

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 2:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT if Iran or The Taliban or Al Qaida or The Devil's Brigade itself overrun the place and kill everyone there. Yes...kill, torture, mass genocide...whatever...I don't care,
Wow...that's kinda cold there Jong, doncha think?

And yet it is possible if all of the troops come home as you have suggested on numerous occasions. Better to just cover your eyes and plug your ears and throw a big welcome home bash for the troops.

Fair to say...but I've lived through many "bloodbaths" in my life. I don't think this one will be as bad as Cambodia for example....and even that one did not cause me to second guess our withdrawl from Viet Nam. Sometimes the forces of eventuality replace American idealism very nicely.

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
What we will be able to say to trhe Arab world is that America gave Iraq a good chance of being free and independent of dictators and murderers, but THEY blew it.

I think a lot of people would agree with you - and a lot of folks are aware of this huge mess in the middle east... but, just remember this... it was US - not THEY who dropped the first bomb - US who created shock & awe - US who ordered a pre-emptive attack on a sovereign nation - all based on faulty or outright false information.

Make no mistake, this is a war that was conceived by a group of power hungry madmen who saw a chance to make huge monetary gains and acquire a vast amount of wealth for the corporations they serve.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

Another reasoned rebuttal from Mr. C.I.A.

Aw, BDM, you know to expect nothing less from me, LOL!!!

Quote:

Care to explain your position on troop withdrawals from Iraq and the potential consequences.

For the record, I want Iraq evacuated of women & children so we can neutron bomb the mess, and return the innocents home later.
You mean seriously?
Oh.
I'm not actually fond of cleaning up messes I never made, or never would have made, even hypothetically.
My only answer is to give asylum to those in need as we leave. We did the deed- no Saddam anymore...are we gonna be their daddy forever?

Quote:
Or do you want to stick with hurling insults to those that question your stated position?

Ruttin' gorram go-se-eating BIPED!!!!

The evil laughing Chrisisall

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm not actually fond of cleaning up messes I never made, or never would have made, even hypothetically.

Ah yes, the be all and end all argument of the anti-war camp. Whether you agree with the initial invasion or not is completely pointless IMHO. The troops are there now, the infrastructure is lacking now, the Iraqi governmnet is unable to secure it's own country now. How do we proceed and try to mitigate the problems now?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
My only answer is to give asylum to those in need as we leave.

At least it's a start, you've offered up a potential solution. Not sure how workable it is though. Who do you take? How many? Where do you take them?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
We did the deed- no Saddam anymore...are we gonna be their daddy forever?

Is America still Germany's Daddy?

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:53 PM

BDN: The answer?

Split Iraq. Put Saudi Arabia in charge of the Sunni area, Iran in charge of the Shiite area, and Russia in charge of the Kurdish area.

Give lots of $$$ to the Sunnis for development since they'll lose access to oil resources.

Forget the friggin' oil law.
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All the King's horses
And all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:

At least it's a start, you've offered up a potential solution. Not sure how workable it is though. Who do you take? How many? Where do you take them?

Any one that has lost the family provider, women & children who feel the need...many will get here eventually...how many Vietnamese came here after Nam to find a life? How many Nicaraguans? Japanese? We blast a place & take them in later- it's got historical precedence.

Quote:

Is America still Germany's Daddy?

Yes, and they stole the keys to the Volkswagon- boy are they gonna get it!

Chrisisall

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 3:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Is America still Germany's Daddy?

- no, probably not... but therein lies a big part of the problem, IMO, America WANTS to be EVERYBODY's daddy -

...father figure, the authority, the police chief, the five star general, the big cheese, boss, big man on campus, top dog, CEO, judge, jury and executioner, bully, don't fuck with us dude - we'll kick your ass type of bullshit mindset that gets us in so much trouble...

CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Split Iraq. Put Saudi Arabia in charge of the Sunni area, Iran in charge of the Shiite area, and Russia in charge of the Kurdish area.

You know, that is what created the Israeli-Palestinian mess that is costing us billions of dollars a year. The Brits split Palestine, and gave away land that wasn't theirs to give away.

Iraq is not OURS to split, nor ours to give away to foreign powers. I don't have a problem with separatism, but they need to be driving that vehicle themselves.

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Many people would sooner die than think; In fact, they do so.
--Bertrand Russell

CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
The troops are there now, the infrastructure is lacking now, the Iraqi governmnet is unable to secure it's own country now. How do we proceed and try to mitigate the problems now?

Give every citizen weapons and weapons training over the next 4-6 months. Then wish them well and say good-bye.

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The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.
--Patrick Henry

TANKOBITE

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:04 PM

Quote:
My only answer is to give asylum to those in need as we leave.

Yeah; I'm against withdrawal now, but if that's what the next CinC decides to do, the least we can do is offer asylum to the poor bastards who stood up with us. Not another Hue and no more boat people.

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There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 8:46 PM

Quote:
You know, that is what created the Israeli-Palestinian mess that is costing us billions of dollars a year. The Brits split Palestine, and gave away land that wasn't theirs to give away.

Iraq is not OURS to split, nor ours to give away to foreign powers. I don't have a problem with separatism, but they need to be driving that vehicle themselves.

Your parallel doesn't work. The British didn't "divide" Palestine as much as they gave part of it away to people who didn't live there. In the case of Iraq, I propose simply drawing boundaries among people who are already there (not creating wholesale immigration of foreigners).

Iraq was a "synthetic" nation like Yugoslavia, created for the convenience of foreign powers. The Kurds are already breaking away by drafting their own oil laws and inking contracts with various oil firms, independent of the central government.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In the case of Iraq, I propose simply drawing boundaries among people who are already there (not creating wholesale immigration of foreigners).

I don't have a problem with drawing boundaries. I just think it is VERY important that THEY draw the boundaries, and not us.

And if someone needs to oversee the diplomacy involved in THEIR boundary negotiations, that someone needs to be multinational, like the UN or some regional organization. NOT US.

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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
--Bertrand Russell

RUE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:33 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/world/middleeast/27iraq.html?hp

Maliki Gives Militias 72 Hours to Disarm

BAGHDAD — An assault by thousands of Iraqi soldiers and police officers to regain control of the southern port city of Basra stalled Wednesday as Shiite militiamen in the Mahdi Army fought daylong hit-and-run battles and refused to withdraw from the neighborhoods that form their base of power there.

During a briefing in Baghdad on Wednesday, a British military official said that of the nearly 30,000 Iraqi security forces involved in the assault, almost 16,000 were Basra police forces, which have long been suspected of being infiltrated by the same militias the assault was intended to root out.

......

But if the Mahdi Army breaks completely with the cease-fire that has helped to tamp down attacks in Iraq during the past year, there is a risk of replaying 2004, when the militia fought intense battles with American forces that destabilized the entire country and ushered in years of escalating violence.

The assault has also sparked continuing violence by outraged Mahdi commanders in other major cities, including Baghdad, where the sprawling urban slum called Sadr City forms the militia’s power center in Iraq.

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Say it ain't so ! And all this time I thought it was the surge.

VETERAN

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Say it ain't so ! And all this time I thought it was the surge.

It was probably a bit of both: the cease fire to quiet Sadr & Co. while the surge went after the foreigners. I guess we'll see if Prateaus was able to take advantage of the cease fire to weaken the foreign fighters enough that the Iraqis can concentrate on internal affairs.

My bet is regardless who wins the presidency this year is that we'll be in Iraq for at least another 5 yrs if not longer.

RUE

Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:47 AM

There aren't any foreigners to speak of.

Every now and again the news media slips and some real information gets out.

Washpost "... the freeze was ordered by Sadr in late August, part of a nationwide reorganization that has dramatically altered the group's public image in Iraq and has been a crucial reason for the recent downturn in violence ..."

IHT "Moktada al-Sadr, the anti-American Shiite cleric, renewed Friday a cease-fire declared last summer that has been one of the main factors contributing to declining violence in Baghdad and across Iraq."

And so on.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SIGNYM

Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:38 PM

I heard an interesting analysis.

It seems that the split within the Shiite militia groups is between the Baghdad Shias and the southern Shias. People in the south want more autonomy than is currently proposed in the Iraq Constitution. Why? Because they get more oil revenues!

The Baghdadis, no matter what religious persuasion, are centralists. Why? Because they'd get oil revenues!

So even in Iraq, it's all about the oil.

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Let's party like it's 1929.