Cheney says Bin Laden Innocent on 9/11
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Monday, March 17, 2008 16:03
VIEWED: 7326
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And your default position is that these terrrorist are INNOCENT, when the fact is they were were taken off the battle field, fighting w/ our military. Your faulty logic - again - suggest I'm ok w/ torture. We don't torture. You know that, but that's besides the point. Unlike you, I don't buy into the phony Esquire articles of alleged 'victims' who claim all sorts of attrocities were done to them by the U.S. military.
*MY* default position? Actually, that's the LEGAL default position that's part of what our nation is founded on - a PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Dig up the parts of the Constitution that you haven't wiped your ass with, and look it up.
The larger point I think you're missing is that, if the government can do it to "terrorist" - or terroristS, in their plural form - they can ALSO do it to any of us regular ol' citizens. We're a nation of LAWS, and those laws tend to rest on precedent - so not letting the US treat ANYONE in such a way is also an assurance that we don't treat OURSELVES this way. But you already know that.
And since when do we not torture? Waterboarding, in our own words after WWII, was defined as torture. We tried Japanese officers for it, charging them with war crimes for waterboarding American soldiers. It was used in the Spanish Inquisition, fer chrissakes!
I'm indeed charmed and glad that you've taken up your new post as Minister of Information, and now magically have the power to discern which articles are true and which are "phony" - let me guess: anything Bush & Co. say is "true", and anything that disagrees with the RepuliKKKan Party Line is "phony". Wouldn't it be loverly....
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Meanwhile, you're mute on the savages who rape, torture and saw off the heads of truly innnocent people, all done in the name of allah. So, while OUR military is accused of making folks lie on a cold floor, the REAL Islamo-jihad terrorist are lobbing off limbs, performing ACTUAL torture acts on their captives, while we merely take pics of faux torture ( and yes, we get punished for that too )
I'm "mute" on them? Hardly. I abhor torture in any of its forms. If it's not right for THEM to do to US, then neither is it alright for US to do it to THEM. Unlike you, I can often hold more than one view in my head at a time. Torture is wrong, period. The cheap-out defense that "they did it to us first, so that makes it okay" is just chicken-shit. We are supposed to be BETTER than that, remember? Now you seem to be saying that it's okay to be exactly as fucked-up as those you hate. So they hate our freedoms, and you hate their freedom to hate our freedoms, eh?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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when the fact is they were were taken off the battle field, fighting w/ our military.
Bullshit, most were just pointed out by other sad little bastards in order to either be on the pointing, rather than recieving, end of the finger, or to make the torture stop - one reason it doesn't work, since folks will tell you anythin you wanna hear and ain't none of it true.
To steal a quote from David Drakes Counting the Cost...
"Party Time"
Of course, the only makes sense in context if you've read the book, but when the jackboot comes down, a lotta folks wind up pointing the finger fast at anyone they might not like, to focus it's attention anywhere but them.
And that's just the way it is, guilt or innocent ain't got shit to do with it.
Having fun, Mikey ?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:Quote:
when the fact is they were were taken off the battle field, fighting w/ our military.
Bullshit, most were just pointed out by other sad little bastards in order to either be on the pointing, rather than recieving, end of the finger, or to make the torture stop - one reason it doesn't work, since folks will tell you anythin you wanna hear and ain't none of it true.
To steal a quote from David Drakes Counting the Cost...
"Party Time"
Of course, the only makes sense in context if you've read the book, but when the jackboot comes down, a lotta folks wind up pointing the finger fast at anyone they might not like, to focus it's attention anywhere but them.
And that's just the way it is, guilt or innocent ain't got shit to do with it.
Having fun, Mikey ?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
Besides which, you invaded their country
they fought back... that makes them terrorists ?
Well I suppose thats what the Russians would have called them it the movie Red Dawn. More pro terrorist propaganda.
The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.
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The U.S. constitution does not apply to non citizens fighting against our military in times of conflict. YOU seem to think it does. I missed the part where enemy soldiers were given free and unfettered access to OUR Judicial system. They aren't. More often than not, those attempting to enter our country were shot. They were lucky if they got a military tribunal.
We don't torture. Speaking out against the Gov'te in Iraq got one's hand sawed off, or wife and daughters raped. In N.Korea, they send you off to work camp. Weee ! Sounds fun, huh? WE DON'T DO THAT, MORON. I love how the definition of 'torture' has been expanded to cover every damn thing like not getting a fresh, clean prayer rug 5x's a day, or not having " religious appropriate " meals served..oh, we do that, don't we ? Never mind. If we're committing such an attrocity as waterboarding, it's to get info from bad guys. Info that'll save lives of civilians and or our troops. You seem to think that's a bad idea. I don't.
And yes, you're MUTE on the terrorist torturing innocents, out of their brand of allah worship. We don't torture, and you raise all hell about it, and they DO torture, and you say nothing. It's not an issue of ' they did it first', jackass. But keep pushing that non sequitur, if it makes you feel any better.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Originally posted by AURaptor:
The U.S. constitution does not apply to non citizens fighting against our military in times of conflict. YOU seem to think it does. I missed the part where enemy soldiers were given free and unfettered access to OUR Judicial system. They aren't. More often than not, those attempting to enter our country were shot. They were lucky if they got a military tribunal.
We don't torture. Speaking out against the Gov'te in Iraq got one's hand sawed off, or wife and daughters raped. In N.Korea, they send you off to work camp. Weee ! Sounds fun, huh? WE DON'T DO THAT, MORON. I love how the definition of 'torture' has been expanded to cover every damn thing like not getting a fresh, clean prayer rug 5x's a day, or not having " religious appropriate " meals served..oh, we do that, don't we ? Never mind. If we're committing such an attrocity as waterboarding, it's to get info from bad guys. Info that'll save lives of civilians and or our troops. You seem to think that's a bad idea. I don't.
And yes, you're MUTE on the terrorist torturing innocents, out of their brand of allah worship. We don't torture, and you raise all hell about it, and they DO torture, and you say nothing. It's not an issue of ' they did it first', jackass. But keep pushing that non sequitur, if it makes you feel any better.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
I'm fine with the people arrested INSIDE the US, but %80 of the people locked up were fighting the US inside their own country. Such as this one who is there for throwing grenades at US soldiers
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/apr/23/usa
And bullshit the US doesn't torture, it depends on where you make the definition, one of the thing I admire about John McCain is I think he'll put right that issue.
As for innocents... maybe try citing example, you seem to be aright with executing terrorist suspects in the US, doesn't that make American terrorists in foreign lands free game. Its their country and that makes a hell of a difference with the wrong or right of the situation...
The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.
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First of all, get your definitions straight. Not any bloke w/a gun is a 'terrorist'. A terrorist is an individual, not a member of any regulated miitary and one who wears no recognized uniform that targets civilian and military personnel w/ out discrimination. When you say "American terrorist", I'm not sure what you're talking about. There are none that I'm aware of. Also, as for Iraq, there were many there fighting the Coalition who were from outside Iraq.
And what's a 15 yr old Canadian doing in Afghanistan in the 1st place ? Besides tossing grenades at U.S. soldiers, I mean.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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In N.Korea, they send you off to work camp. Weee ! Sounds fun, huh? WE DON'T DO THAT, MORON.
You're a liar.
We most certainly DO, do that, moron.
"Dissappeared" right to the camps, here in america.
http://www.journalismcenter.org/awards/nadya_labi.html
And a lotta times, they die.
http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html
Need I repost the casualty lists, again ?
Conditions so hellish, gulag is the only word appropriate.
http://www.teenliberty.org/An_American_GULAG.htm
And we do it to our own, often for no better reason than rebellious youth.
And you mean to tell me we don't that and worse to guys rounded up on the say-so of some jerk being tortured who'll say *anything* to make it stop, and starts naming names at random ?
Cause, you know, that's what torture does, it doesn't get real information, just whatever the victim thinks will make it stop, and so we wind up torturing some nobody, for nothing, who fingers other nobodies - and we wind up torturing a lotta folk for no good reason and getting nothing in return but the everlasting hatred of everyone they ever knew that didn't get fingered and dragged off.
Shit, with that kind of policy, the other guys don't NEED to recruit, we drive the populace running into their arms because we're fucking monsters, in their opinion, and rightfully so.
And yet I bet you'd throw a freakin fit if Chavez hauled out the waterboard the NEXT time he caught american "terrorists" (as in our intel people) trying to forment revolt or have his ass assassinated like we did Mossedeigh way back when, which got us into this whole blasted mess in the first place, given that OBL, The Taliban, Saddam, The Mujas, the whole freakin lot was at one time or another on our payroll, till we sold em out when we were done using them.
Fact is, we committed terrorism against many nations - gonna invite their people down to Langley and haul out the waterboard ?
I mean, fair is fair, right, if we can torture theirs, then we shouldn't bitch when they torture ours, yes ?
Maybe you just can't get it though your little pin-head, but lemme make it crystal clear - if you want any right to bitch about what other countries do, you want any chance of being listened to instead of being the outright laughingstock you have become, we need to set a fucking EXAMPLE by not engaging in that kind of behavior ourselves.
If it weren't for short-sighted pettyminded little rah-rahs like you, and the racial hate and religious intolerance every bit as cruel sprited as the very worst islamic radical, we coulda pulled to the top, taken a leadership position at the UN, and practically taken the hell over, bending it to our ends and used someone ELSES troops to do the job... or hell, sent in the diplomats and the corpie reps and practially bought the damn place up lock, stock and barrel...
We coulda damnwell OWNED that place, and had them building statues in our honor FOR it...
But noooo, you and your ilk wanted to kill some towelheads, wanted oh so desperately to slaughter folks who's primary crime against you is having the wrong skin color, and beliveing something other than what you would have them believe... you know, prettymuch the same damn issue they got with you!
Where's the difference between you and them, Rap ?
Cause I sure as hell ain't seein it.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Originally posted by AURaptor:
First of all, get your definitions straight. Not any bloke w/a gun is a 'terrorist'. A terrorist is an individual, not a member of any regulated miitary and one who wears no recognized uniform that targets civilian and military personnel w/ out discrimination. When you say "American terrorist", I'm not sure what you're talking about. There are none that I'm aware of. Also, as for Iraq, there were many there fighting the Coalition who were from outside Iraq.
And what's a 15 yr old Canadian doing in Afghanistan in the 1st place ? Besides tossing grenades at U.S. soldiers, I mean.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
So by you definition any employee of Blackwater or any of the independent contractors are terrorists and are free game, and for the kid I believe his parents were dual citizens. Also your definiton seems to fit any of the resistance groups of WW2, did the US support terrorism back then ? hell my previous analogy with the movie Red Dawn being about a band of terrorists also seems to fit. The definitions being used here are so out of date and are being used so selectively they are beyond useless.
The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.
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After starving Iraq, denying them access to purchase medicines, water purification equip, etc for a decade for the second invasion.... I think trying to win hearts and minds there was a long uphill battle from the start...
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I think I would harbor a grudge
The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.
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Frem, you're a liar, a moron and an idiot. Those 'schools' you claim aren't run by the Federal Gov't, and it's parents sending their own unruly kids to these places, not some Federal Bureaucracy in charge of re-education. And none of that has ANYTHING to do w/the interogation of Islamic zealots who want to blow us up, or die trying. We don't torture, and no matter how many times you suggest we do, I'll be right here, correcting you. Our guys are more motivated in getting results, positive info, than dealing out pain for no purpose. There mere option of waterboarding, which we've claimed we don't do anymore , is a ace up our sleeve I'd rather have than not. Or, to be more accureate, have the TERRORISTS believe we have. If they know we're not allowed to do more than play patty-cake w/ them, they'll feel no pressure to say much of anything, and will laugh at us as we try to make them talk. No thanks on that.
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If it weren't for short-sighted pettyminded little rah-rahs like you, and the racial hate and religious intolerance every bit as cruel sprited as the very worst islamic radical, we coulda pulled to the top, taken a leadership position at the UN, and practically taken the hell over, bending it to our ends and used someone ELSES troops to do the job... or hell, sent in the diplomats and the corpie reps and practially bought the damn place up lock, stock and barrel...
We coulda damnwell OWNED that place, and had them building statues in our honor FOR it...
Again, you have it 100% backwards. It's rah rahs like me w/ my religious intolerance ( not racial hatred, that's your dept., not mine ) that has lead to our success, and likely saved your ass from future attacks. The U.N. is run by a bunch of 3rd world thugs and tyrants, none of which would have allowed us to do what needed to be done. Example? Food for Oil scandal, doofus. You don't see the differences because you don't want to. To do so, would be an admission that you're wrong, and you're to ass brained stubborn to do any such thing.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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