Iran To Imprison & Whip Old Man For Walking His Dog

POSTED BY: Jongsstraw
UPDATED: Thursday, September 21, 2023 17:36
VIEWED: 3852
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CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I just don't understand why any so-called civilized country can support and do business with these people.

We support and do business with Israel, China, Russia, and plenty of other countries that commit this type of oppression on both innocent individuals and groups.

Then, just so we can pull the log out of our own eye, we should look at all the 70 year olds we've imprisoned at home (as Sarge said) and all the 70 year olds we've helped oppress in other countries by giving their governments money and other "non-lethal" aid, past and present.

I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.

--------------------------
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
--Bertrand Russell

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sickdude:
Gotta feel sorry for all those Iranian dogs, though. Just waiting by the door, all cross-legged....

Certainly this is messed up. But in my opinion, one of the things we do wrong is then go and back up an equally barbaric rebel who is trying to grab power away from the sitting theocracy. Then the locals start to equate US intervention with "making things worse". It seems to me that, left alone for a bit, the people under this kind of oppression would rise up on their own eventually.

"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

Biggest problem is back in the days the Shah ran Iran, the US helped suppress anybody who even thought about rising up, except the religious radicals to prevent it from becoming a holy war.

Not sure what the best solution would be, but constant threats and sabre rattling as has been the norm with US / Iran relations only helps to unify them against the foreign invader.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I just don't understand why any so-called civilized country can support and do business with these people.
We support and do business with Israel, China, Russia, and plenty of other countries that commit this type of oppression on both innocent individuals and groups.

Then, just so we can pull the log out of our own eye, we should look at all the 70 year olds we've imprisoned at home (as Sarge said) and all the 70 year olds we've helped oppress in other countries by giving their governments money and other "non-lethal" aid, past and present.

I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.

--------------------------
What the world needs is not dogma but an attitude of scientific inquiry combined with a belief that the torture of millions is not desirable, whether inflicted by Stalin or by a Deity imagined in the likeness of the believer.
--Bertrand Russell

Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait.... even in a solely regional basis if one makes a stand against Iran without looking closely at these allies it looks like politics and nothing more.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Is it possible that Adnkronos.com is the Italian version of Pirate News?

I can't say for sure, but I don't think so. They have news reports on all topics (finance, politics, sports, etc), including horoscopes, recipes, and a TV Guide. Looks like a regular full service news site to me.

Plus I don't see any crude, photoshopped pictures a la PN and National Enquirer.

Of course, the only way to be sure is have someone who is fluent in Italian to make sure those articles are relatively objective. I have some passing familiarity, but no where near enough to make those finer discernments.

--------------------------
The chance is high that the truth lies in the fashionable direction. But, on the off chance that it is in another direction--a direction obvious from an unfashionable view of field theory--who will find it? Only someone who has sacrificed himself by teaching himself quantum electrodynamics from a peculiar and unfashionable point of view; one that he may have to invent for himself.
--Richard Feynman, Nobel Lecture, (11 December 1965)

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, February 21, 2008 6:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.-----------

You really can't? That's pretty hard to believe!
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

GINOBIFFARONI

Thursday, February 21, 2008 7:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I simply don't see how we can claim any moral high ground on this.-----------

You really can't? That's pretty hard to believe!
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

Unless equal action is taken in other cases such as

http://archive.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE230132007?open&of=ENG-S
AU

http://archive.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE310092007?open&of=ENG-Y
EM

http://archive.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150662007?open&of=ENG-2
MD

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

First of all, the article doesn't say anything about being lashed to death. It says 30 lashes.

Secondly, this man was also convicted of a crime by the Iranian justice system and was sentenced for it.

The dispute is that we Americans find the idea of dog-walking as crime to be barbaric. We are further shocked that the sentence should be so harsh considering the man's age.

However, Americans have laws making non-violent victimless actions criminal as well. And we also sometimes levee unreasonably harsh sentences for things that maybe should not have been a crime in the first place.

Didn't we recently talk about the kid who went to prison for getting a blowjob?

Or how about this sentence?

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2007/06/seekin
g_thought.html

You've got to know things like that happen all the time. And just because we are used to thinking of it as a crime doesn't make it any more criminal than walking a dog where dogs are offensive.

Quote:
Some have criticized the United States for incarcerating a large number of non-violent and victimless offenders; half of all persons incarcerated under state jurisdiction are for non-violent offences, and 20% are incarcerated for drug offences. "Human Rights Watch believes the extraordinary rate of incarceration in the United States wreaks havoc on individuals, families and communities, and saps the strength of the nation as a whole."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There may be 70 year-olds in prison in America, but I would guess theye're in there because they were tried and convicted by a jury of a crime. I also know they're not getting lashed to death over walking a dog....You cannot possibly draw a moral equivalency here, not with a straight face anyhow.

First of all, the article doesn't say anything about being lashed to death. It says 30 lashes.

Secondly, this man was also convicted of a crime by the Iranian justice system and was sentenced for it.

I believe 30 lashes on 70 year-old is a death sentence, or will leave the poor man near death.
Second...no power in the verse is ever gonna be able to convince me, or spin me, or get me to accept yours or anybody else's argumentative obtuseness on this......Walking a dog cannot be a corporal punishment crime in the eyes of any civilized society. If he broke some absurd law about dogs due to their "impure nature" ( whatever the hell that means,)then jail him, but lashing him is just beyond the pale of any rational person.

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:13 PM

Jong,

Corporal punishment is not used in America to begin with, so it would be hard for most Americans to wrap their head around lashings, esp for non-violent crime, esp for a "crime" that Americans do every day. I am not excusing lashings, but we American convict and deliver our own brand of punishment for crimes that people in other countries find shocking as well. You can tell yourself that Americans don't do anything just as bad, but I submit that is a biased judgment.

One further point. As Gina pointed out, we associate ourselves all the time with countries that DO use corporal punishment in excess or for unjust reasons. Remember the caning that American boy got for littering in Singapore? Well, littering is apparently as offensive to Singaporians as dog poop is to Iranians. Yet we are still quite friendly with Singapore. So again, I don't see where we get to be so judgmental when our regular "friends" do almost exactly the same thing, and we say nothing. Again, it shows our bias--our very very *obtuse* bias, if you ask me.

We're not in any position to point fingers.

--------------------------
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
--Matthew 7:5, Bible

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Jong,

Corporal punishment is not used in America to begin with, so it would be hard for most Americans to wrap their head around lashings, esp for non-violent crime, esp for a "crime" that Americans do every day. I am not excusing lashings, but we American convict and deliver our own brand of punishment for crimes that people in other countries find shocking as well. You can tell yourself that Americans don't do anything just as bad, but I submit that is a biased judgment.

One further point. As Gina pointed out, we associate ourselves all the time with countries that DO use corporal punishment in excess or for unjust reasons. Remember the caning that American boy got for littering in Singapore? Well, littering is apparently as offensive to Singaporians as dog poop is to Iranians. Yet we are still quite friendly with Singapore. So again, I don't see where we get to be so judgmental when our regular "friends" do almost exactly the same thing, and we say nothing. Again, it shows our bias--our very very *obtuse* bias, if you ask me.

We're not in any position to point fingers.

--------------------------
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
--Matthew 7:5, Bible

I respect your opinion. I agree about the Singapore incident. I didn't post the story looking for, or even expecting any opposition to my position. Good debate, thanks.

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