The Destruction of Shadow
POSTED BY: ncbrowncoat
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 23:58
VIEWED: 10979
PAGE 2 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
PS they did not use up the earth - it could no longer support the numbers. Big distinction.
That's one version. Both Mal and Book use the phrase "used up" in their intros to various episodes ("Here's how it is: the earth got used up..." and "After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system...") so it stands to be argued how reliable the decidedly propaganda-ish dream-teacher in the movie intro really is as a source.
Neither side portray it as the journey of a few surplus humans, but both as a kind of exodus. Which makes the distinction pointless anyway. They know the importance of living space and I think there is a big cultural difference between 1945 U.S. mentality toward such complete destruction and 2515's Alliance's. (Or whenever, I'm fuzzy of verse years.)
Just saying that they'd probably need to see a good pay-off for making an entire world uninhabitable and the Alliance seems like they'd sacrifice people more easily than precious resources. Look how they go after River.
Quote:
PPS What about Mal in DU Khang (The Message)? Still reeling from an earlier loss of a homeworld? Possible, but not how I see things.
I don't see too big a difference between those two Mal's (Du Khan and Serenity Valley) but I also don't think we would have seen a Mal obviously "reeling" very much, after the initial shock and fury and grief.
Once's he'd have made the decision to fight, to use his anger and desperation, I think he would have been remarkably together. In fact, his death-defiant joviality in fighting might be seen as a sign of recklessness brought on by having nothing much to lose anymore.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Mal volunteered as a result of the bombing of Shadow.
With this I agree.
Quote:
It was a pre-emptive move on the part of the Alliance. They didn't want it to be available to the Independents. Alliance assumed the response would be nil, not inciting rabid volunteerism.
With this, not so much. You don't just level an entire planet when you "assumed the response would be nil." Otherwise, what would be the point of doing so? That would be silliness. Besides, speaking of nil, I reckon the strategic importance of Shadow was precisely that: nil. Instead, I adhere to the RPG story:
"Shadow was a prairie planet that took well to terraforming. It was known for its farms and ranches. The planet was almost entirely rural: no cities and only a few towns dotted the surface. The people of Shadow were hard workers and independent-minded. It was one of the first to stand against the Alliance. Most of the planet's young people volunteered to fight for Independence.
Shadow was aggressively bombed during the war in an attempt to break the Browncoats and teach them a lesson; it had the opposite effect."
That's why "No one lives there. No one can."
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Mal volunteered as a result of the bombing of Shadow.
With this I agree.
Maybe, but... if Mal wasn't already a volunteer before the bombing, then how did he survive the attack? Were there rescues or time for refugee ships to escape the planet? Was he off-world for some other reason?
I guess I thought that Mal was already in Independent service, fighting on some other world, (not necessarily in Serenity Valley) when his homeworld was destroyed. Your thoughts may vary.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Chrisk:Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Mal volunteered as a result of the bombing of Shadow.
With this I agree.
Maybe, but... if Mal wasn't already a volunteer before the bombing, then how did he survive the attack? Were there rescues or time for refugee ships to escape the planet? Was he off-world for some other reason?
Could be that's true (Mal already being a volunteer is actually more in line with the RPG notion of folks on Shadow having been generally Independence minded). I just said "With this I agree." for reasons of brevity: whether Mal was already a volunteer, or only so after they bombed his homeworld, the latter I think is ultimately what would later prompt the Operative (deleted scenes) to say: "This man hates us." I'm fair certain Mal has always been opposed to the Alliance. but I'm thinking it really takes an 'incentive' of the level of destroying one's home planet to make a man become despiseful of you with such a powerful will.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'm with NBZ as far as canon - all we know is that Shadow and the war were both lost in the end. We don't when and how. So it's all opinion, and there's room for lots of those!
Personally, I don't go with the scenario where Shadow was destroyed before Mal joined, or that he knew about it before Serenity Valley. He's just so happy in those war flashbacks, so ready to laugh even in the middle of a firefight. I don't see the weight of a destroyed homeworld on him. In fact, I think he does appear happy and hopeful. He's certain that they'll win - he absolutely believes! That's what's so poignant, that he loses that belief.
As for what motivated him to fight - I don't see a desperate hatred in him, a need for revenge. My take is that he's defending his way of life, trying to preserve Shadow as he knows it, rather than letting it become a world full of Alliance strip malls and suburbs. Yeah, he just seemed to be fighting to preserve, rather than fighting to avenge.
I'll agree with NBZ again that I don't think the Alliance would purposely destroy an entire world. They're not so purely evil, just misguided and careless. My fanfictional take is that Shadow was destroyed shortly before Serenity Valley in an accident, kind of collateral damage of the war, and that news of it was suppressed for a long time. (We all know how a government suppresses bad news in an attempt to keep a war popular. 
) The Alliance suppressed Miranda - I think they'd keep news of Shadow quiet till after the war was won, and Mal learned of it then.
Taking this too seriously? What? Us? 
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Shadow (destruction of) was no accident. It was retalliation by the Allied planets for most of Shadows young people volunteering.
"...RPG Reference (from Serenity Roleplaying Game, ISBN: 1931567506)
Shadow was a prairie planet that took well to terraforming. It was known for its farms and ranches. The planet was almost entirely rural: no cities and only a few towns dotted the surface. The people of Shadow were hard workers and independent-minded. It was one of the first to stand against the Alliance. Most of the planet's young people volunteered to fight for Independence.
Shadow was aggressively bombed during the war in an attempt to break the Browncoats & teach them a lesson; it had the opposite effect.
Today, Shadow is a ghost planet. No one lives there. No one can. "
In turn the Indepenant faction grew by leaps and bounds. There is some other canonical material out there but one can only formulate further. With the character story I was working out there is a ton of material based on the formulations of others. Still, what else are we to do with a fictional universe.
Firefly timeline:
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/firefly.html
Unit History: Excerpts, "Sergeants and Seraphim":
http://76thbattalion.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=unithist&action=d
isplay&thread=1166615225&page=1
76th IB unit history Early Years:
http://76thbattalion.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=unithist&action=d
isplay&thread=1166615225&page=1
Ultra fun Map of the 'Verse (at Photobucket):
Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Personally, I don't go with the scenario where Shadow was destroyed before Mal joined, or that he knew about it before Serenity Valley. He's just so happy in those war flashbacks, so ready to laugh even in the middle of a firefight. I don't see the weight of a destroyed homeworld on him. In fact, I think he does appear happy and hopeful. He's certain that they'll win - he absolutely believes! That's what's so poignant, that he loses that belief.
Well, that argument can go both ways. I could ask: Why would losing that battle be so utterly devastating to Mal, unless it meant he now had nothing left?
Quote:
As for what motivated him to fight - I don't see a desperate hatred in him, a need for revenge.
I don't see those traits, either. But, in earnest, I think that's just part of Mal's character make-up. In War Stories, when we meet the real 'me', Mal didn't take revenge on Niska, either (nor, in the BDM, on the Operative, for that matter). It's just not his way. I think, as a born 'independent', he primarily doesn't want to be meddled with.
Quote:
Yeah, he just seemed to be fighting to preserve, rather than fighting to avenge.
But preserve what? His homeworld? Or the knowledge that after the loss Serenity Valley all would be lost?
There's certainly signs to support your notion, btw. Mal kissing that crucifix, for instance: that don't exactly look like a man who lost his home.
Quote:
They're not so purely evil, just misguided and careless. My fanfictional take is that Shadow was destroyed shortly before Serenity Valley in an accident, kind of collateral damage of the war.
Well, you lost me here. People leave the toilet seat up by accident. :) Or they add G-23 Paxilon Hydroclorate to the air processors, and find out that, unexpectedly, about a tenth of a percent of he population has an opposite reaction to it. But it's hard to imagine them being so careless as to bomb an entirely planet by mistake. "Oh, SIHNON! I thought you said Shadow! Oops." :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
NVG: When did the RPG become canon? Seriously, not trying to be a smart ass! I mean, even the system map you posted here is not the one in the movie...
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Nah, the system map is pretty off. Where's Titan? And really, isn't there a misaligned axis between the show and the movie anyhow?
Honestly the RPG is a licensed product that adds to the information already available. Choose to use or don't. Besides. I'm sure our BDH's have been put through the ringer enough. It's time for folks to explore the 'Verse as a whole. Not as nine base characters written a million times over. I'll leave the BDH writting to Joss and his cohorts. All I can hope to do is catch a glimpse of them in passing while I travel in a borrowed universe.
Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
NVG: When did the RPG become canon?
It never did. :) "I'm with NBZ as far as canon - all we know is that Shadow and the war were both lost in the end. We don't when and how." Couldn't agree more. But only talking about what we strictly know by canon, where did that get fun? I'm speculating that a little speculation never hurt anyone. :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME