The Destruction of Shadow
POSTED BY: ncbrowncoat
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 23:58
VIEWED: 10979
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:Maybe because it meant that his way of life was over - the ranch would get eaten up by Alliance economic policies and the Alliance government would show up telling him what to do. Also, his faith in the Independent leadership is thrown for a loop - and his morla and religious beliefs. He believes that God is on his side, that he's RIGHT and will therefore win in the end. But to be right and lose anyway? Ouch.
Originally posted by asarian:
Well, that argument can go both ways. I could ask: Why would losing that battle be so utterly devastating to Mal, unless it meant he now had nothing left?
Not saying this is true - it's just my take! Your take can work too. It's just not how I read things.
Quote:Well, he did try with Niska until he got jumped by the other guy. He didn't go after the Operative, but this is at a point when Mal has rediscovered his beliefs, and he's recovered himself a bit.
In War Stories, when we meet the real 'me', Mal didn't take revenge on Niska, either (nor, in the BDM, on the Operative, for that matter).
Actually, I do agree with you that Mal is not at all a vengeful person. But I just don't see the "homeworld already dead" despair in him in the war flashbacks. I don't! You can see it all you want, but I can't! Sorry. I don't mean to be a brat, really. Just telling my take.
Quote:All *would* be lost, as I said above. Independent way of life, belief in his cause, in his God - gone. That's hard.
But preserve what? His homeworld? Or the knowledge that after the loss Serenity Valley all would be lost?
Quote:The bombing thing is not canon - it's RPG. Which I personally don't take as canon.
But it's hard to imagine them being so careless as to bomb an entirely planet by mistake. "Oh, SIHNON! I thought you said Shadow! Oops." :)
OK, here's my take on Shadow. It's from my fanfic because it's easier than writing it out again. Zoe tells Mal this shortly after the war:
"It's gone, Mal. Torched. No one's sayin' whose ships did it, but someone fired the wrong kind of engine where they shouldn't'a. It had to have been something big - bigger than anything we had. The going theory is that an Alliance convoy came under attack, and some idiot at the helm of a freighter went into hard burn in atmo. The whole fleet had to follow to get out of the backburn, and that just made it worse.
"It took out half the continent, and that messed with the system. Somethin' with the terraform - the climate's gone to hell. There were three hands away from your Ma's ranch at the time, and they're the only ones that lived.
"Your land was right under the main fire. It's burnt to nothin'. Gorramn rocks melted. Even if the atmo and climate get back under control, ain't much gonna grow for a long, long time. Not as long as me and you are livin'."
Purely fanfic and nothing but my take on matters, but I think it's plausible. It's sort of similar to what happened to Miranda - carelessness.
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Well. I offered what I could. Seems a product approved by the creator himself just ain't enough. Seeing how much of a stickler Joss is of his own work I figured folks could accept his acceptance of details he might have never considered.
I do love the idea of Shadow being burned out as opposed to bombed. Not as devastating as telling the 'Verse the Alliance "bombed" the planet but it sure is a good vehicle for support.
Funny how the workings really make sense when someone has another take. Seems my own writtings might take a strange turn from misinformation.
Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Actually, I do agree with you that Mal is not at all a vengeful person. But I just don't see the "homeworld already dead" despair in him in the war flashbacks. I don't! You can see it all you want, but I can't! Sorry. I don't mean to be a brat, really. Just telling my take.
Actually, I'm beginning to agree with you. Try not to faint. :) There's really a certain bitterness lacking from 'flashback' Mal. Also, he lost his faith AFTER Serenity Valley: that's pretty much the entire premisse of Firefly. Him having lost it earlier really causes ugly breakage (or would make him look heartless for NOT having lost his faith if indeed his world had been destroyed before).
You're also right about the bombing (to the degree of leveling Shadow) not being canon. I guess that idea just erroneously cropped in as canon, somehow.
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:As much as I hate to admit it... if we ever did get a series continuation, I would be ecstatic but also have many moments of discomfort, I'm sure! I'm very buried in my own take on the `verse, which is based on my personal leanings. I know I create plenty of my own misinformation LOL! So don't even worry about that.
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Funny how the workings really make sense when someone has another take. Seems my own writtings might take a strange turn from misinformation.
Yeah, and ignoring the RPG is as much for my own convenience as anything else. (Although I asked about it early on and other writers said that it was quite optional. I don't think Joss went through and checked off each little detail. Maybe it's just convenient for me to think that...
) Actually, I generally ignore the movie too. It just makes it easier if I have the freedom to create my own fic-take on many things.I'd reply to Asarian but I'm fainted dead away LOL!
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Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Mal volunteered as a result of the bombing of Shadow.
With this I agree.Quote:
It was a pre-emptive move on the part of the Alliance. They didn't want it to be available to the Independents. Alliance assumed the response would be nil, not inciting rabid volunteerism.
With this, not so much. You don't just level an entire planet when you "assumed the response would be nil." Otherwise, what would be the point of doing so? That would be silliness. Besides, speaking of nil, I reckon the strategic importance of Shadow was precisely that: nil. Instead, I adhere to the RPG story:
"Shadow was a prairie planet that took well to terraforming. It was known for its farms and ranches. The planet was almost entirely rural: no cities and only a few towns dotted the surface. The people of Shadow were hard workers and independent-minded. It was one of the first to stand against the Alliance. Most of the planet's young people volunteered to fight for Independence.
Shadow was aggressively bombed during the war in an attempt to break the Browncoats and teach them a lesson; it had the opposite effect."
That's why "No one lives there. No one can."
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
Where was this info? I spent some time looking for this data, and did not find it. Had seen it before, but couldn't find it now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Where was this info? I spent some time looking for this data, and did not find it. Had seen it before, but couldn't find it now.
Well, it's in the RPG, of course. :) But it's also listed at fireflywiki.org, where I copied it from:
http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/Shadow
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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Quote:That does not agree with Joss' memo - in it he clearly states that Mal "...joined out of belief and nothing more". Serenity VC Page 14.
Mal volunteered as a result of the bombing of Shadow.
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I think someone needs to ask Joss when they next see him if he read and approved the first RPG book as it gave additional information on the universe he created.
Since he seems to want to keep a tight rein on this property, there's a good bet he did.
I use the RPG book as cannon in my writing as it adds so much more information that I don't have to think up myself! :)
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
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Quote:OK, I revived myself, and after thinking for a day I'm beginning to agree with you LOL! About the bombing, anyway. Here's another scenario that occurred to me this morning:
Originally posted by asarian:
Actually, I'm beginning to agree with you. Try not to faint. :)
Mal was so surprised when the Independent leadership gave up in Serenity Valley. He expected support, he thought the fight might be won. So why exactly did they give up? Perhaps there really was a chance that they'd pull off a win and extend the war, so the Alliance did a Hiroshima thing to Shadow.
In fact, I could see something like this being a flashback scene, another piece of the Mal puzzle given in a later episode. Mal and Zoe leave Hera and hear about Shadow. Mal realizes that the Independents had a good reason to surrender, but it's of no comfort to him. Oh, the angst!
Of course, this totally goes against my previous argument about the Alliance not being evil enough to bomb a planet. Oops.
But then, the US bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I don't think we're entirely evil (though we do get closer everyday.) It's culturally acceptable for us to take extreme measures to end a war, right? To stop terrorists? So... OK, I'll try to stay off the RWED topic since I'm never going there again and don't want those people following me here LOL! *shudder*
Anyway, it's just a thought. And the beauty of fic is that there's not just one truth, right?
Leiasky: I like using the everyday details in the RPG - money, technology, etc... but I think as far as overall story arc it's not on, as NBZ points out. I'd love to hear what Joss says about it! Ask him if you ever get a chance LOL! No, that would be Leighkohl who's all buddies with the writers, huh? *jealous*
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Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
OK, I revived myself, and after thinking for a day I'm beginning to agree with you LOL! About the bombing, anyway.
Ok, I've now, myself, revived from your revival. :) LOL
Quote:
Here's another scenario that occurred to me this morning:
Mal was so surprised when the Independent leadership gave up in Serenity Valley. He expected support, he thought the fight might be won. So why exactly did they give up? Perhaps there really was a chance that they'd pull off a win and extend the war, so the Alliance did a Hiroshima thing to Shadow.
Hmm, I can't help but think about what Harken said:
"Independents suffered a pretty crushing defeat there. Some say that after Serenity, the Browncoats were through. That the war ended in that valley."
Seems to me like, if it happened that way, he would have mentioned their version of Hiroshima in there somewhere, wouldn't he?
Well, for starters, how many inhabitants did Shadow actually have? A rural place like that, with no major cities, could be not millions died, but 'just' a few thousand. So, your Hiroshima thingy could very well still have happened.
Also, one keeps wondering, what's with BOTH sides leaving them stranded in Serenity Valley for two weeks after the Independence's High Commander had surrendered? Did perhaps some other cataclysmic event take place which had them all distracted, like your Hiroshima thing?
Alrighty, now I'm all confused! You fog things up. :) But in good ways; in ways that make one think.
Quote:
Of course, this totally goes against my previous argument about the Alliance not being evil enough to bomb a planet. Oops.
I once made a pretty cogent case -- if I dare say so myself -- showing the Alliance is not an inherently Evil Empire. But war is dirty business; and killing a couple of thousand settlers on a rural planet near the Core, to make a point, so to speak, I wouldn't put it past them. Especially not DURING the war. I'm thinking the "Shining the light of civilization" jingle didn't hit the airwaves until long after the dust settled. :)
Quote:
OK, I'll try to stay off the RWED topic since I'm never going there again and don't want those people following me here LOL! *shudder*
Yep, never go there my own self, either! *shudder* That's Reaver territory! Not even the Alliance ventures there. You go to RWED, you're signing up to be a banquet! :)
--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam
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