Hmm, maybe Vera would have worked without the suit?

POSTED BY: jake7
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 07:59
VIEWED: 6481
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JAKE7

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:06 PM

Interesting bit of info here that would totally change how things were done on Firefly:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgunsinspace.html

First thing I thought of was "I wonder if this guys is a Browncoat?"
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MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.
***********
"They just float out there, sending out raver breeding parties..."

FUTCHFACTOR

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:28 PM

assuming Vera is a conventional gun ;-)
the ammo clip on the back suggests so.

i thought the very same when i saw the show. bullets are squeezed shut so 02 is not gonna get in there anyway.

DAVESHAYNE

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:31 PM

Yup, cartridge firearms do not need an external source of oxygen to fire. Of course that write up ignores a possible real problem for firearm usage in space: vacuum welding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_cementing It turns out that without a layer of gas between moving metal parts they have a strong tendency to fuse together into a single non moving lump. It was a problem in early satellites and requires using some non standard components on any parts that need to move against each other. Outgassing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outgassing is another potential problem as it would tend to degrade the performance of any lubricants.

So it is possible that what Jayne said was true but not for the reason most commonly supposed. Most people who think on this stuff agree that for only a few shots neither problem I cited is likely to be severe enough to cause a firearm to seize up. Maybe Jayne is just overprotective. Or since Jayne says "Vera needs oxygen" perhaps there is something about how that specific weapon works that doesn't apply to cartridge firearms of this century or even weapons in general of the 26th century.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

JAKE7

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:36 PM

For some reason, I always had the impression that Vera was a 20-21st century gun...now that I think about it, that seems a silly thing to think.

Of course, this makes me wonder:
If it was a "future" gun, wouldn't it have been made to work in space? Or would the gun manufacturers all assume that gunfights only took place planet-side?

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.
***********
"They just float out there, sending out raver breeding parties..."

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:

Or would the gun manufacturers all assume that gunfights only took place planet-side?

I think that would be a safe assumption, LOL.

It ain't Star Warsisall

ASARIAN

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:47 PM

Writer dude wrote:

"So the lack of oxygen likely wouldn't put a damper on outer-space gunplay. Temperature, on the other hand, could be a problem. (...) It's certainly possible that a handgun way out in the middle of interstellar nowhere might become so cold that the gunpowder in the cartridge no longer reliably ignites and burns fast enough to produce an explosion. That’s not a result specifically of being in space, though, but simply of being very, very cold."

Hmmm, I can already hear River say:

"You're afraid Vera's going to run out of air. That she'll die gasping. But she won't. That's not going to happen. She'll freeze to death first."

Sorry, couldn't resist. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

JAKE7

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I think that would be a safe assumption, LOL.

We all know what happens when you assume, right?

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.
***********
"They just float out there, sending out raver breeding parties..."

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I think that would be a safe assumption, LOL.

We all know what happens when you assume, right?

Th Odd Couple lives forever...

Madisoyisall

NVGHOSTRIDER

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:38 PM

Gottoldisall

Been here for the discussion before and I love that new issues surface. I think the temperature issue associated to powder might be a null issue in the 'verse. From the sound of things there is a different, electronically ignited propellant involved. Looking at the solid propellant caseless cartridges of the world it makes sense. I wonder if the cartridges in the 'verse have an electronic primer in each case? Look at the size of a Grizwald. Kinda makes sense.

But that is the conventional style firearm. What about the Alliance whozits. I can see a totally caseless cartridge or even a magnetically launched projectile as totally possible.

Isn't weapon theory fun?!?!?

Gots mad skillz, loves playing with matches.

IMNOTHERE

Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:
For some reason, I always had the impression that Vera was a 20-21st century gun...now that I think about it, that seems a silly thing to think.

Actually, I'd assume that a lot of the guns would be 19th century tech - just less ornate.

Why? Well, out on a frontier moon its no good having a fancy high-tech electronically primed gun, built to ludicrously close tolerances, stuffed with custom silicon chippery with a big sticker on saying "no user servicable parts inside - return to factory on Ariel for service".

You'd want something that could be fixed (if not built from scratch) using basic metalwork tools at "Seth's friendly gun repair and bait store" in the nearest two-horse town. The trouble with high-tech is it sits atop a huge pyramid of other technology, and you'd better hope that you brought along the tools that make the tools that make the tools...

Same with the horses - sensible thing to take to the frontier with you, the big advantages of horses over motor vehicles being (a) horses run on unrefined biofuels, (b) horses know how to make more horses and (c) if the potato crop fails, there's better eating on a horse than on a jeep.

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