Israelis Create Warsaw Ghetto in Gaza
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, October 19, 2025 12:43
VIEWED: 13049
PAGE 10 of 17
Quote:Do you think Israeli human rights organizations and Israeli soldiers who served in the Occupied Territories day in and day out, ripping up IDs and shooting at people who cut lines, are ignorant too?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I sometimes wonder if the real problem in this whole affair is the degree of ignorance with which the world views it...
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We hereby declare that we shall continue serving the Israel Defense Force in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.
The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose and we shall take no part in them.
--Courage to Refuse Combatant's Letter, signed by Israeli Defense Forces soldiers who refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories
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BDN: Your link starts with this quote:
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The crisis in the Gaza Strip and southern Israel had escalated dramatically since 15 January, due to daily rocket and mortar attacks on Israeli civilian residential areas by several militant groups from Gaza, and regular military attacks by the IDF on and into Gaza. There were also tight Israeli restrictions on crossings into Gaza to end rocket fire. IDF entered the Gaza Strip on 15 January and had been engaged in heavy battle by Hamas militants, including IDF air and tank operations. Hamas claimed responsibility for sniper and rocket attacks against Israel. Since then, more than 150 rocket and mortar attacks had been launched at Israel by militants, injuring 11 Israelis, and a sniper attack killed an Ecuadorian national on a kibbutz. Forty-two Palestinians had been killed and 117 injured by the IDF, which had launched eight ground incursions, 15 air strikes and 10 missiles this past week. Several Palestinian civilians had been killed in ground battles between IDF and militants, and in Israeli air strikes and targeted killing operations.
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So IDF (Israel Defense Force):
Bottled up Gaza, blocked FOOD and FUEL to everyone.
Left the entire population of Gaza without sewage and water, and reduced electricity.
Militarily attacked in eight ground incursions (using tanks), 15 air strikes and 10 missile launches.
Killed 42 Palestinians and injured 117.
Meanwhile, Hamas:
Launched 150 rocket attacks against Israel
Injured 11 Israelis.
So... how does that make this "better" for Israel?
FINN_ The only naiton that is "disputing" the territories is... why, it's Israel! Huh. Who'da thunk?
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Always look upstream.
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Here is a video of the exodus out of Gaza, for anyone who hasn't seen it.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/266.html
And interesting commentary from people who are there or have been there.
http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/2008/01/must-read-this-is-why-israel
-wants-to.html
(These are the first non-Israeli links I've posted, BTW.)
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We have the best government that money can buy.
--Mark Twain
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Quote:Actually it’s the other way around. The UN doesn’t refer to the West Bank as “occupied territories.” Just like no one refers to Kashmir as an “occupied territory.” Most who are educated enough to understand the situation and impartial enough to evaluate it fairly don’t refer to these territories as “occupied,” because they are not. In order for a territory to be occupied it must have firsts had a permanent recognized government, and that last time that was true was WWI. The correct term is “disputed.” It’s what it is. Now you can call it “occupied” if you want. Most people who understand the situation have heard the term, so they’ll probably understand what you’re saying, but bare in mind, that it is a less accurate term, then “disputed.”
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:And who decides that is the correct term?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The correct term is disputed territories.
Cause you know, everybody else outside of the government of Israel (and its sympathizers) calls it "occupied territories." This includes, as I mentioned, members of the IDF who served in said territories.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:If that were true, then there wouldn’t be any problem. Israel would have annexed it a long time ago and everyone would be happy campers.
Originally posted by SignyM:
FINN_ The only naiton that is "disputing" the territories is... why, it's Israel! Huh. Who'da thunk?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Some of them. Just because you call yourself a Human Rights Organization or been in the IDF doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about or have an honest or fair assessment. In fact, some of these people become polarized because of the traumatic things they’ve seen or done, and it becomes more difficult for them to view the situation with a fair or impartial perspective.
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Do you think Israeli human rights organizations and Israeli soldiers who served in the Occupied Territories day in and day out, ripping up IDs and shooting at people who cut lines, are ignorant too?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Again, correct according to whom?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The correct term is “disputed.”
Quote:
The UN doesn’t refer to the West Bank as “occupied territories.”
Then how do you explain this? (And there's more where this came from.)
Quote:
UN Resolution 446
1. Determines that the policy and practices of Israel in establishing settlements in the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967 have no legal validity and constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/ba123cded3ea84a5852560e50077c2dc?Op
enDocument
UN Resolution 465
Affirming once more that the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War of 12 August 1949 is applicable to the Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem,
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/db942872b9eae454852560f6005a76fb/5aa2
54a1c8f8b1cb852560e50075d7d5!OpenDocument
UN General Assembly Resolution 60/104
Work of the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs of the Occupied Territories
http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/271d2c2cbc1ffd9185257106006ae89d?O
penDocument
In addition, these folks think the correct term is "occupied."
Quote:
A conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention concerning the application of international humanitarian law in the occupied Palestinian territories took place in Geneva on December 5, 2001.
The participating High Contracting Parties reaffirm the applicability of the Convention to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem and reiterate the need for full respect for the provisions of the said Convention in that Territory.
http://www.fmep.org/reports/vol12/no1/07-conference_of_high_contractin
g.html
Quote:
International Court of Justice
By fourteen votes to one,
The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law”;
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?pr=71&p1=3&p2=1&case=131&p3=6&
Summary in Wikipedia
Quote:
Applicability of the term "occupied"
The United Nations Security Council (in Resolution 446, Resolution 465 and Resolution 484, among others), the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention[6], and the International Committee of the Red Cross[7], have each resolved that the territories discussed in this article are occupied and that the Fourth Geneva Convention provisions regarding occupied territories apply. In its decision on the separation barrier, the International Court of Justice ruled that the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem are occupied.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli-occupied_territories
So, pardon me if I don't understand where you have the authority to deem that "disputed" the correct term. I haven't seen anyone who agrees with you on the international stage besides (as I said) the government of Israel and its sympathizers.
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We hereby declare that we shall continue serving the Israel Defense Force in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.
The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose and we shall take no part in them.
--Courage to Refuse Combatant's Letter, signed by Israeli Defense Forces soldiers who refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories
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Quote:By this reasoning, just because some Jews survived the Holocaust doesn't mean they have a fair assessment of what happened in those times--they may be judging Germany too harshly. In fact, because of the traumatic things they've seen or done, it becomes more difficult for them to view the situation with a fair or impartial perspective. Their assessment of the Holocaust and Nazi Germany may be wrong and rooted in ignorance.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Just because you call yourself a Human Rights Organization or been in the IDF doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about or have an honest or fair assessment. In fact, some of these people become polarized because of the traumatic things they’ve seen or done, and it becomes more difficult for them to view the situation with a fair or impartial perspective.
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We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
--Courage to Refuse Combatant's Letter, signed by Israeli Defense Forces soldiers who refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories
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Thanks CTS.
Finn, I don't usually stoop to personal commentary, but... are you listening to yourself? Excusing occupation, murder, terrorism... I'm grown up enough to know that it's bad whenever anyone does it. Are you?
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:You’re right. I guess I never noticed how often Israel gets labeled as “occupying” the West Bank. I think the term may come from a lack of language to describe the authority of a disputed territory, but it brings to mind a conversation I had with a friend at work several months about how often Israel is singled out and unfairly criticized by the United Nations. It does seem like from the excerpts you posted here that the UN might be inaccurately loading the argument by imposing the word “occupied” on a disputed territory. I’ve rarely seen such language applied to Kashmir, or Karabakh or the Western Sahara, so it’s possible there could be an anti-Israeli sentiment in the UN. That would certainly explain why a PLO terrorists like Arafat would get such privileged treatment.
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:Again, correct according to whom?
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The correct term is “disputed.”Quote:
The UN doesn’t refer to the West Bank as “occupied territories.”
Then how do you explain this? (And there's more where this came from.)
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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