Israelis Create Warsaw Ghetto in Gaza

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, October 19, 2025 12:43
VIEWED: 13049
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RUE

Thursday, January 24, 2008 3:38 AM

"hopelessly demented and obtusely fucked-up some idiots truly are"

Now that's what I like to see - rational and sane discussion of the issues.

***************************************************************
he he he he he he he he ....

FLETCH2

Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
"Democratically elected"...ha ha ha..just like Saddam used to get 99.9% of the vote? Very democratic I'm sure.

Actually Hamas really doesn't have to fix any elections, they essentially provide just about every public service in most of the camps. They are the guy's that give you fuel, water, food, clothes and educate your kids. In a culture where people feel obligated to those that help them Hamas is a shoe-in.

It's a classic example of the application of soft power. In most cases you can do more by winning hearts and minds than by threatening violence.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

Now that's what I like to see - rational and sane discussion of the issues.

Well hey Rue, so nice to hear from you. Been way too long. It's a bit thrilling to know that you still read my posts. Yes, certainly the "Israel Creates Warsaw Ghetto" thread title was meant to stimulate "rational and sane discussions". Anybody could clearly see that it was just an innocent selection of a subject matter with no predjudice intended.

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
But I suppose it’s easier for lazy people to buy into this moronic argument that Israel “stole” land, and when confronted, deny the “they started it” argument.

It doesn't matter that there was no Palestinian state when Jewish immigrants stole land from local Arab landowners. They still stole land.

Case in point. Elias Chacour, in his book Blood Brothers, describes how armed Jewish immigrants (most likely the Irgun) came into his village, demanded that they all run into the hills from an oncoming slaughter. So they all ran and hid in the hills. After weeks passed, they came back down into their village, to find that the land has been claimed by Jewish immigrants. The olive orchard that had been in his family for 3 generations was now owned by someone else. His father hired himself out to this new landowner to continue to care for his own orchard.

Now, if that's not stealing, I don't know what is.

--------------------------
Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs.
--Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi's Collected Works, Vol 74 (1938)

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, January 24, 2008 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Yes, certainly the "Israel Creates Warsaw Ghetto" thread title was meant to stimulate "rational and sane discussions".

If it looks like a "Warsaw Ghetto," and lays siege on people like a "Warsaw Ghetto," and kills people like a "Warsaw Ghetto," then maybe calling it a "Warsaw Ghetto" will stimulate a rational discussion on whether or not it is in fact a "Warsaw Ghetto."

Here are some examples of this siege.

Quote:
3 Jan 2008: ‘Azzun ‘Atmah gate still closed at night, despite army’s promise: Two women forced to give birth in a car....

B'Tselem has twice contacted the military authorities and warned them of the danger inherent in closing the gate at night. The first warning came following the death of ‘Adel ‘Omer, a young man from the village who was seriously injured when a tractor overturned. Soldiers waited more than an hour and a half before opening the gate so he could be taken to hospital.

http://www.btselem.org:80/english/Separation_Barrier/20080103_Azzun_At
mah_Enclave.asp

Quote:
At around 2 A.M. this morning [5 December], I was woken by hard pounding on the door at the entrance to our building....The soldiers explained that they were looking for weapons. I told them we didn't have any weapons, and that they wouldn't find anything.... I saw them damaging the furniture as they searched. I protested, in Hebrew, and told one of the soldiers that they could search without destroying things. The soldier told me to shut up and said that if I didn't, he would cause more destruction,...We are a well-off family. We had quality furniture that we carefully chose piece by piece, which cost tens of thousands of shekels. Within an hour, the soldiers destroyed it. The soldiers also frightened the children a lot.
http://www.btselem.org/english/Testimonies/20071205_Destruction_of_Pro
perty_During_Search_in_Yata.asp

Quote:

According to B'Tselem, two themes clearly emerge from examination of the spectrum of human rights concerns in 2007. The first is the use of security justifications for virtually every Israeli action in the Occupied Territories . There is no doubt that Israel faces serious security threats, and is entitled and even obligated to do its utmost to protect its population. However, far too often, Israel fails to appropriately balance its security needs with equally important values, including protecting the rights of Palestinians under its control. In addition, Israeli authorities often exploit security threats in order to advance prohibited political interests, such as perpetuating settlements and effectively annexing them to Israel .

The second theme arising from the report is the lack of accountability of Israeli security forces, in all matters relating to human rights. This can be seen clearly in the reluctance of the state to thoroughly investigate violations and to prosecute those responsible for them. The lack of accountability can also be seen in the denial of most Palestinians' right to compensation when they are injured through no fault of their own by Israeli forces.

In 2007 (up to 29 December), Israeli security forces killed 373 Palestinians (290 in Gaza , 83 in the West Bank ), 53 among them minors. By comparison, in 2006, 657 Palestinians were killed, including 140 minors: 523 in Gaza , 134 in the West Bank . In 2007, about 35 percent of those killed were civilians who were not taking part in the hostilities when killed. This is a reduction in comparison with the number of casualties who did not participate in the hostilities in 2006, which was 54 percent, (348 persons).

Palestinians killed seven Israeli civilians (three in a suicide attack in Eilat, two in Sderot by Qassam attacks, and two by gunfire in the West Bank ). This is the lowest number of Israeli civilian casualties since the beginning of the Intifada. Palestinians also killed six Israeli security forces. In 2006, Palestinians killed 17 Israeli civilians.

http://www.btselem.org/english/Press_Releases/20071231.asp

SIGNYM

Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:34 PM

Quote:
If it looks like a "Warsaw Ghetto," and lays siege on people like a "Warsaw Ghetto," and kills people like a "Warsaw Ghetto," then maybe calling it a "Warsaw Ghetto" will stimulate a rational discussion on whether or not it is in fact a "Warsaw Ghetto."

WHY... YOU... YOU... JEW HATER!!!!

I'm sorry CTS, but your post is just too factual for Jongsstraw.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, January 24, 2008 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The British, in 1921, then created the first Palestinian nation of Jordan since Biblical times

...and Israel keeps sending "settlers" in and that's not taking land away from the Palistinians how...?
I just don't see something here...

At a loss Chrisisall

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
If it looks like a "Warsaw Ghetto," and lays siege on people like a "Warsaw Ghetto," and kills people like a "Warsaw Ghetto," then maybe calling it a "Warsaw Ghetto" will stimulate a rational discussion on whether or not it is in fact a "Warsaw Ghetto."

WHY... YOU... YOU... JEW HATER!!!!

I'm sorry CTS, but your post is just too factual for Jongsstraw.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

HA!

CANTTAKESKY

Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
WHY... YOU... YOU... JEW HATER

Funny thing is, Btselem is an Israeli human rights organization, which means it is comprised largely of Jewish activists.

Courage to Refuse ( www.seruv.org) is also Jewish, since they are all members of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). I can't see how anyone could call them Jew-haters.

If Jewish people are protesting the immoral actions of their government, I think we oughta listen.

Edit to add: Read these articles and tell me again that Gaza doesn't sound like a Warsaw Ghetto.

http://www.seruv.org/english/signer_article.asp?sid=1

http://www.seruv.org/english/signer_article.asp?sid=6

http://www.seruv.org/english/signer_article.asp?sid=16

Quote:
The most critical question that arises is "what exactly is an illegal command?" What is immoral as opposed to just inconvenient or unpleasant, and into which category does the current situation in the territories fall?

An order to fire on a child standing before a roadblock is clearly illegal. But if the order is to shoot above his head to chase him from the roadblock, does the emotional damage the shooting causes the child make the order illegal? Is it illegal to continually enter Palestinian citizens' homes in the middle of the night? Is it illegal to prevent the free movement of Palestinian citizens? Aren't the searches, the humiliation, our many mistakes, an indication that our treatment of the Palestinian population under our rule is clearly illegal?

Military law does not define what a clearly illegal order is, but leaves it to the soldier. My interpretation of the law does not limit it to orders involving attacking, killing or injuring people. Rather, it includes any command that, when obeyed, leads to humiliating human beings, robbing them of self-respect, and depriving them of the basic human rights protected under the UN declaration of human rights, a document signed by Israel.

http://www.seruv.org/english/signer_article.asp?sid=22

Read all the articles written by the signers on why they refuse.

http://www.seruv.org/english/signers.asp

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Must the citizen ever for a moment, or in the least degree, resign his conscience to the legislator? Why has every man a conscience, then? I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward.
--Henry David Thoreau

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
and Israel keeps sending "settlers" in and that's not taking land away from the Palistinians how...?
I just don't see something here...

Well first of all, why is it Palestinian land? Until 1967, this land was under the control of Jordan - there was no limit on settlements then. Israel acquired the West Bank as part of the 1967 War. So the West Bank is Israeli territory. Now it may be disputed by some, but it is not occupied; it is Israeli territory under military administration, and it has been since 1967. Israel is not a big country - they don’t have a lot of land to be tying up in red tape until crazy terrorist leaders decide to negotiate in good faith, because that will probably never happen. With no end in sight to Palestinian terrorist groups, Jihads and Intifadas, Israel simply can’t reserve this land indefinitely. There are Israelis, both Arabs and Jews alike, who want to build houses and make families. So typically speaking, settlements are not stealing anything from anyone.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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