Aid for Israel

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Monday, August 17, 2026 14:58
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GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, January 14, 2008 8:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TragicStory:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Perhaps an alternative to the cutting off of aid is balanced aid. If a peace settlement is found and both the Israelis and the Palestinians sign on, they any aid to either side should be in parity so that one ceases to have any advantage over the other... except in the case of treaty violation in which case that side would be cut off.

That way, the path towards rebuilding would be rewarded, and straying would not.

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

The problem with that is three-fold.

1.Corruption in the Palestinian Govt. is rampant. It constantly is cited as the #2 problem Palestinians face. When Arafat was alive, 33% of the ENTIRE aid given to the Palestinian people was used "to run his office." No questions asked.

2.The Palestinian leadership is not based on politics but along militant lines. When peace comes about, they will be out of a job so you really have to wonder how eager they are to see that.

3.The current Palestinian "leadership" would swear peace and with each attack shrug off any responsibility and blame it on a "splinter group" it has no control over.

Quote:
IMHO Israel looks a lot like any other ME religious state, and they have WMD to boot.

Israel is really not a religious state. Most of the Israelis never attend synagogue, keep kosher or even wear a skullcap. But you are right that it has its share of millitant nutballs and combined with its odd parliamentary system, it means they have a say in the govt.

1. All governments are corrupt, it is just to varying degree that they are responisble
2. If Peace = Cash, someone will come around
3. One of the nice things about running your own country is you control it, make that one of the responsibility's, plus lift all arms embargos so that they can combat their militants. Look at the recent strife, the PA didn't combat the other groups because they couldn't and win. Hard to blame Arfat there.

In reguards to Israel being a religious state, this is interesting

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/13997.htm

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

JONGSSTRAW

Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Of COURSE I make a distinction. The Jew down the street who isnt doing anything to anybody doesnt bother me.

Its the Zionists.

Also, I may have made a flippant remark about the diamond trade. But it is true. Look it up.

What about all the free air that Jews use up with their big noses? Does that bother you some Hans?...and did ya hear the one about the difference between a pizza and a Jew?

WULFENSTAR

Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM

As I said in my previous post. The Jew down the street, not bothering anyone...does not bother me.

HOWEVER...The ones pushing Zionistic policies, and decrying anyone who opposes them as an "anti-semite", DO bother me.

(Also, those who take this discussion to a racist level..."

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ISRAEL. In fact, if it was gone tomorrow, I think the world would be a better place.

Harsh words, perhaps rash, I know. But think about it for a minute. Without Israel, there would be peace in the Middle East.

The fundamentalist Christians would bemaon the loss of it...but really, wouldn't they be better off too? Maybe then they could wake up from the "dogma of the Left Behind" a little. If their Rapture couldn't come, maybe they could rejoin society...just a little bit.

Hell, the Islamic folks might even call off their jihad...(long shot, I know) so we could back off from Iraq.

We would have all the money that we dump into Israel, and could use it for our own problems. (Instead of propping up a failed, evil, country that shouldnt exist in the first place.)

But while Im wishing, Id like to win the lottery...lol

......and a pony....one which doesn't bite.

KIRKULES

Monday, January 14, 2008 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ISRAEL. In fact, if it was gone tomorrow, I think the world would be a better place.

Without Israel, there would be peace in the Middle East.

I'm not a middle eastern historian, but I believe that there has been a conflict in the region every few years for the last 1000 years or so. Did Israel somehow cause Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait or did he want their oil and a platform to attack Saudi Arabia.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Monday, January 14, 2008 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ISRAEL. In fact, if it was gone tomorrow, I think the world would be a better place.

Harsh words, perhaps rash, I know. But think about it for a minute. Without Israel, there would be peace in the Middle East.

So you are saying that without Israel there will no longer be any sectarian violence? Let's just wipe Israel and her people off the map and Sunni will embrace Shia and all will be good again. Just curious, what was the Iran / Iraq war about again? Oh, that's right, it was Israel's fault.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
As I said in my previous post. The Jew down the street, not bothering anyone...does not bother me.

HOWEVER...The ones pushing Zionistic policies, and decrying anyone who opposes them as an "anti-semite", DO bother me.

One of my colleagues at work remarked once that “Every racist knows a good nigger.” It doesn’t make any difference what words you use to sugar coat it. It’s not the word that is the problem. That’s what I tried to explain to Signym, but it just went in one ear and out the other. The problem is the negative one-sided way you describe the Palestinian-Israeli conflict to load the whole thing onto Jews. You describe this conflict as a bunch of Nazi-Jews who go to Palestine and start randomly killing Palestinians for no reason. That’s not what happened. It doesn’t make any difference whether you call them Jews, Zionists, Israelis or Fluffy Purple People Eaters. It’s your whole conception of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that is completely screwed up. I don’t know if this is what you intended to say, but it is how you‘re coming across to me. If you would like to re-evaluate your position and get back to me, then I’ll reconsider it. If it is your intent to come across with an anti-Semitic argument, then that’s your prerogative too, but I’m not going to entertain discussion at that level.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

TRAGICSTORY

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:58 PM

1. All governments are corrupt, it is just to varying degree that they are responisble
2. If Peace = Cash, someone will come around
3. One of the nice things about running your own country is you control it, make that one of the responsibility's, plus lift all arms embargos so that they can combat their militants. Look at the recent strife, the PA didn't combat the other groups because they couldn't and win. Hard to blame Arfat there.

In reguards to Israel being a religious state, this is interesting

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/13997.htm

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

1. Yes, but Palestine is "African Nation" corrupt. They are on par with Sudanese War Lords and military dictatorships. The more money you give, the more they take. The Palestinians live under the Mob for lack of a better term. Thugs with guns who take their money and don't even bother to call it taxes.

2. No one is going to give up power to go back to herding goats. You have to remember, most of the terrorists/millitants are uneducated, unskilled and beyond their terrorist/military training have no skills. Now, their boss might say "Yes" to peace, but they will not. No one will give up the power to go back to being a nobody.

3. In Palestine, off the top of my head, you have Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, PLO, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsah Mytars Brigade and each of them have splinter groups... Fatah said "peace" and Hamas took over the Gaza Strip. Now Fatah says its living up promise and Hamas keeps sending missiles into Israel. And Palestine has no problems getting weapons, they import them from the Middle East. The weapons caches Israel has found are amazing.

And as for religious, most Israeli Jews do not practice any form of religion. There are numerous religious laws but that is because of how their parliament is set up. The UltraOrthadoxNutballs have a small but needed block in the parliment that is needed for the "winner" of the elections to start building their coalition government.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

TRAGICSTORY

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:59 PM

1. All governments are corrupt, it is just to varying degree that they are responisble
2. If Peace = Cash, someone will come around
3. One of the nice things about running your own country is you control it, make that one of the responsibility's, plus lift all arms embargos so that they can combat their militants. Look at the recent strife, the PA didn't combat the other groups because they couldn't and win. Hard to blame Arfat there.

In reguards to Israel being a religious state, this is interesting

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/13997.htm

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

1. Yes, but Palestine is "African Nation" corrupt. They are on par with Sudanese War Lords and military dictatorships. The more money you give, the more they take. The Palestinians live under the Mob for lack of a better term. Thugs with guns who take their money and don't even bother to call it taxes.

2. No one is going to give up power to go back to herding goats. You have to remember, most of the terrorists/millitants are uneducated, unskilled and beyond their terrorist/military training have no skills. Now, their boss might say "Yes" to peace, but they will not. No one will give up the power to go back to being a nobody.

3. In Palestine, off the top of my head, you have Hezbollah, Hamas, Fatah, PLO, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsah Mytars Brigade and each of them have splinter groups... Fatah said "peace" and Hamas took over the Gaza Strip. Now Fatah says its living up promise and Hamas keeps sending missiles into Israel. And Palestine has no problems getting weapons, they import them from the Middle East. The weapons caches Israel has found are amazing.

And as for religious, most Israeli Jews do not practice any form of religion. There are numerous religious laws but that is because of how their parliament is set up. The UltraOrthadoxNutballs have a small but needed block in the parliment that is needed for the "winner" of the elections to start building their coalition government.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The problem is the negative one-sided way you describe the Palestinian-Israeli conflict to load the whole thing onto Jews. You describe this conflict as a bunch of Nazi-Jews who go to Palestine and start randomly killing Palestinians for no reason. That’s not what happened. It doesn’t make any difference whether you call them Jews, Zionists, Israelis or Fluffy Purple People Eaters. It’s your whole conception of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that is completely screwed up.

Bravo! You stated it perfectly. Jew haters only see the parts of the news and history they want to...the part where Israel looks bad. They fail to realize and understand that Israel has consistently over the last 4 decades attempted to make peace with these people. It has always been some element of "The Palestinians" which commit a murderous atrocity to end the peace...then Israel answers back...but usaully the media don't cover the entire story...just that some kid got shot by Israeli troops. The Palestinian have become the greatest group of useful idiots for Jew haters worldwide since Nazi geneticists announced their racial theories back in the 1930's. Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS and self-appointed expert on racial purity would be grinning ear to ear these days.

Also, there are no Zionists. That faction of Israel disappreared in the late 1940's. That's just a term that Jew haters like to use so as to appear not so trogladytic. By all rights there shouldn't even be an Egypt, or Syria, or Lebanopn today. Israel was sneak-atacked by coalition forces of the UAR
and defeated those countries in a humiliatingly swift manner. If Israel was "zionistic" in any way their country would be about 100 times larger than it is today, and they wouldn't have any hostile neighbors.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The problem is the negative one-sided way you describe the Palestinian-Israeli conflict to load the whole thing onto Jews. You describe this conflict as a bunch of Nazi-Jews who go to Palestine and start randomly killing Palestinians for no reason. That’s not what happened. It doesn’t make any difference whether you call them Jews, Zionists, Israelis or Fluffy Purple People Eaters. It’s your whole conception of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that is completely screwed up.

Bravo! You stated it perfectly. Jew haters only see the parts of the news and history they want to...the part where Israel looks bad. They fail to realize and understand that Israel has consistently over the last 4 decades attempted to make peace with these people. It has always been some element of "The Palestinians" which commit a murderous atrocity to end the peace...then Israel answers back...but usaully the media don't cover the entire story...just that some kid got shot by Israeli troops. The Palestinian have become the greatest group of useful idiots for Jew haters worldwide since Nazi geneticists announced their racial theories back in the 1930's. Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS and self-appointed expert on racial purity would be grinning ear to ear these days.

Also, there are no Zionists. That faction of Israel disappreared in the late 1940's. That's just a term that Jew haters like to use so as to appear not so trogladytic. By all rights there shouldn't even be an Egypt, or Syria, or Lebanopn today. Israel was sneak-atacked by coalition forces of the UAR
and defeated those countries in a humiliatingly swift manner. If Israel was "zionistic" in any way their country would be about 100 times larger than it is today, and they wouldn't have any hostile neighbors.

So you are denying that the UN set up Israel? That they (the US included) took the land from the Palestinians and just gave it to someone else? Ok....

So...by your reasoning, if the Native Americans had the means to fight back, and used any and all means neccessary...they would have been in the wrong for doing so? It would be one-sided to say that the Europeans who came to this country, robbed and pillaged, were wrong?

Wow....

Ok, I can understand why you are so vehement about Israel. After the shit and horror the Nazis visited on them, the Jews took the land and decided to hold on.. NO-MATTER-WHAT.

Fine. There are a lot of cases in the world where nations were formed by people who did the same thing. Great. My issue is, WHY THE FRAK ARE WE GIVING THEM OUR MONEY?

Why do we allow the news stories to propagandize the "heroic" Jews fighting the good fight and killing Palestinian "terrorists" ( i.e. some terrorists, some women and children).

Where is the balanced coverage?

Its not one-sided, you are correct. But the Jews of Israel, and even of America, have as much blood on their hands as any Palestinian. The Israelis are not innocent defenders of their country. They routinly engage in covert operations to assinate Palestinian leaders, lauch rockets into Palestine (killing women and children), build walls to make Palestine areas a ghetto, deny or reroute water supplies, and genrally act like terroists themselves.

Its the same ugly thing.

Now answer the questions Ive proposed:

1. Why are we giving money to Israel.
2. Why is there no balanced coverage by the media of what is really happening.
3. Why should Americans even care what is going on over there? Other than our duty as the worlds policeman I mean.
4. Why must you call anyone who disagrees with what the Jews are doing in Israel "Jew-haters", "anti-semites" ect? Is that your only answer? Using propaganda words, and political correctness to try and force me into your way of thinking? If so, then you are simply proving my point from above about how the Jews learned well from the Nazis.

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